Blown motors, Rod Bearing failure S65 Registry.

[MasterP]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I plan to buy the Bimmerworld rod bearing kit for $750 (WPC treated 702/703 bearings with ARP bolts) this year for my 2008 M3 with 60k miles. The potential damage is not worth the risk of going much longer -- not that age or mileage seems to be the factor.

That's what's in my car now. I got the bimmer world kit.

My car was early 2008 production (11/07) with 63.7k miles at failure.

[TVMA Doc]

Originally Posted by US///M3

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=439844

"BMW has shown me that it is a classless operation...the ultimate nightmare." From the physician.

I just read through some of that and am shocked (well, not really) that BMW tried to weasel out of warranty service based upon RPM during the break-in period.

I know for a fact that every time I test drove an M3 the sales associate was egging me on the red line it (which I didn't do-I already have an S2000 if I want adolescent red line thrills). My vehicle even arrived from AZ with the passenger side rear tire pumped full of the mobility kit fluid-and no mention of it having been used. The tire ended up needing to be replaced, but they did so under the tire warranty that my wife insisted upon-I doubt that BMW would have made good as they refused to replace the mobility kit "goo" even when I pushed the issue.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by TVMA Doc

I just read through some of that and am shocked (well, not really) that BMW tried to weasel out of warranty service based upon RPM during the break-in period.

I know for a fact that every time I test drove an M3 the sales associate was egging me on the red line it (which I didn't do-I already have an S2000 if I want adolescent red line thrills). My vehicle even arrived from AZ with the passenger side rear tire pumped full of the mobility kit fluid-and no mention of it having been used. The tire ended up needing to be replaced, but they did so under the tire warranty that my wife insisted upon-I doubt that BMW would have made good as they refused to replace the mobility kit "goo" even when I pushed the issue.

I test drove a car at the dealership. i redline it while it was still cold, and it had 30 miles already on it. They also said i could. i ended up getting the car, i also was leasing so i didn't care about much.

bottom line is any car that is on the dealership has been driven hard.

[foolio2]

I guess I have to post in this dreaded forum. Two weeks ago lost my engine and it is currently being replaced under warranty. It happened at a bmwcca HPDE too. Third 25 minute run of the day the engine just shut down on me going 120mph down the straight. No drama, just shut off. I had just taken it out of 4th to downshift to third when it died. Coasted to a stop in neutral, did not try putting it back in gear. I was too busy panicking going into turn one at that speed with no power steering or brakes! Luckily track had a big runoff so all was well. After stopping, I tried starting the car and all I got was a clunk. Also, all the dash lights stayed lit. Could not shut anything off no matter what I tried. Let the car sit over night hoping it was just an electric issue. Car never over heated and I kept my eye on the oil all day. Next morning, car still wouldn't start. Hooked up an auto logic and it told me the battery was only at 29% charge. I felt better thinking maybe I just cooked the alternator. Put it on a trickle charger for a couple hours. Tried to start it and it turned over a couple times making a horrible squeak and crunch. Thought maybe the alternator was seized...still thinking this was good news. Tried a few more times but still couldn't get it to start. Waited an hour debating to hit the BMW assist button. Decided to try it one more time and she fired right up! No check engine lights, no drama. Idled like always. Let it run for two hours idling. Temp was good, oil was good, no CELs. Still decided not to take part in day two of the HPDE. Just took rides all day. I live 60 miles from the track or so and did not want to push my luck since I wanted to drive it home if possible. Short way home I started hearing a rattle/knock in the engine under load. Kept telling myself that it was the alternator making noise but in the back of my head I had this horrible thought that it sounded like a rod knock. Made it home. Took it to BMW the next day. They called me two days later saying that the noise was coming from the bottom end and a new engine was on order! Pretty disappointed as you could imagine. For the record, I will say I was anal about my breakin and driving. Never revved past 4k till temp gauge was at the middle, followed the breakin procedure religiously.

Details:
2013 E92 M3
6 Speed
ZCP
Dinan intake, exhaust, pulleys, software
Approximately 6700 miles !!!

Video of engine noise:

[rantarM3]

Originally Posted by foolio2

I guess I have to post in this dreaded forum. Two weeks ago lost my engine and it is currently being replaced under warranty. It happened at a bmwcca HPDE too. Third 25 minute run of the day the engine just shut down on me going 120mph down the straight. No drama, just shut off. I had just taken it out of 4th to downshift to third when it died. Coasted to a stop in neutral, did not try putting it back in gear. I was too busy panicking going into turn one at that speed with no power steering or brakes! Luckily track had a big runoff so all was well. After stopping, I tried starting the car and all I got was a clunk. Also, all the dash lights stayed lit. Could not shut anything off no matter what I tried. Let the car sit over night hoping it was just an electric issue. Car never over heated and I kept my eye on the oil all day. Next morning, car still wouldn't start. Hooked up an auto logic and it told me the battery was only at 29% charge. I felt better thinking maybe I just cooked the alternator. Put it on a trickle charger for a couple hours. Tried to start it and it turned over a couple times making a horrible squeak and crunch. Thought maybe the alternator was seized...still thinking this was good news. Tried a few more times but still couldn't get it to start. Waited an hour debating to hit the BMW assist button. Decided to try it one more time and she fired right up! No check engine lights, no drama. Idled like always. Let it run for two hours idling. Temp was good, oil was good, no CELs. Still decided not to take part in day two of the HPDE. Just took rides all day. I live 60 miles from the track or so and did not want to push my luck since I wanted to drive it home if possible. Short way home I started hearing a rattle/knock in the engine under load. Kept telling myself that it was the alternator making noise but in the back of my head I had this horrible thought that it sounded like a rod knock. Made it home. Took it to BMW the next day. They called me two days later saying that the noise was coming from the bottom end and a new engine was on order! Pretty disappointed as you could imagine. For the record, I will say I was anal about my breakin and driving. Never revved past 4k till temp gauge was at the middle, ollowed the breakin procedure religiously.

Sorry to hear that and hope everything turns out well for you. Do you think there is any chance that you could persuade the dealer to let you take photos of the bearings? I think many of us are curious to see what the bearings look like in a late build car like yours. Considering that M3 owners on the forum are a fraction of the total M3 owner population, the number of failures reported on the forum is concerning.

BTW, happy 4th everyone!

[bde]

Originally Posted by HapaM3

My car is in stock trim minus lowering springs and exhaust. I purchased it with 32000 miles. Took it to Buttonwillow. It started to develop a dipping idle at times, but no other symptoms. In the middle of my 4th session of the day I got a terrible rod knock so I pitted and shut it off. At that point I knew what was going on. I was only briefly informed about rod bearing issues on this car the week before taking it to BW. If I had known more about it, I certainly would have stopped driving it and pulled the pan. I definitely now rule the dipping idle as the bearings tightening up.

Has anyone else associated a dipping idle with the upcoming rod bearings failure? If so, how does it look?

[coloradoe92m3]

Damn 6700 miles failure?? Its so random. I'm over 80k on 2012 and warranty until 100k but also scared they will try to deny coverage

[aus]

Originally Posted by foolio2

I guess I have to post in this dreaded forum. Two weeks ago lost my engine and it is currently being replaced under warranty. It happened at a bmwcca HPDE too. Third 25 minute run of the day the engine just shut down on me going 120mph down the straight. No drama, just shut off. I had just taken it out of 4th to downshift to third when it died. Coasted to a stop in neutral, did not try putting it back in gear. I was too busy panicking going into turn one at that speed with no power steering or brakes! Luckily track had a big runoff so all was well. After stopping, I tried starting the car and all I got was a clunk. Also, all the dash lights stayed lit. Could not shut anything off no matter what I tried. Let the car sit over night hoping it was just an electric issue. Car never over heated and I kept my eye on the oil all day. Next morning, car still wouldn't start. Hooked up an auto logic and it told me the battery was only at 29% charge. I felt better thinking maybe I just cooked the alternator. Put it on a trickle charger for a couple hours. Tried to start it and it turned over a couple times making a horrible squeak and crunch. Thought maybe the alternator was seized...still thinking this was good news. Tried a few more times but still couldn't get it to start. Waited an hour debating to hit the BMW assist button. Decided to try it one more time and she fired right up! No check engine lights, no drama. Idled like always. Let it run for two hours idling. Temp was good, oil was good, no CELs. Still decided not to take part in day two of the HPDE. Just took rides all day. I live 60 miles from the track or so and did not want to push my luck since I wanted to drive it home if possible. Short way home I started hearing a rattle/knock in the engine under load. Kept telling myself that it was the alternator making noise but in the back of my head I had this horrible thought that it sounded like a rod knock. Made it home. Took it to BMW the next day. They called me two days later saying that the noise was coming from the bottom end and a new engine was on order! Pretty disappointed as you could imagine. For the record, I will say I was anal about my breakin and driving. Never revved past 4k till temp gauge was at the middle, followed the breakin procedure religiously.

Details:
2013 E92 M3
6 Speed
ZCP
Dinan intake, exhaust, pulleys, software
Approximately 6700 miles !!!

Video of engine noise:

Damn that sounds nasty. Good luck with the new engine. See if they'll waive a paymore or two.

.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by foolio2

I guess I have to post in this dreaded forum. Two weeks ago lost my engine and it is currently being replaced under warranty. It happened at a bmwcca HPDE too. Third 25 minute run of the day the engine just shut down on me going 120mph down the straight. No drama, just shut off. I had just taken it out of 4th to downshift to third when it died. Coasted to a stop in neutral, did not try putting it back in gear. I was too busy panicking going into turn one at that speed with no power steering or brakes! Luckily track had a big runoff so all was well. After stopping, I tried starting the car and all I got was a clunk. Also, all the dash lights stayed lit. Could not shut anything off no matter what I tried. Let the car sit over night hoping it was just an electric issue. Car never over heated and I kept my eye on the oil all day. Next morning, car still wouldn't start. Hooked up an auto logic and it told me the battery was only at 29% charge. I felt better thinking maybe I just cooked the alternator. Put it on a trickle charger for a couple hours. Tried to start it and it turned over a couple times making a horrible squeak and crunch. Thought maybe the alternator was seized...still thinking this was good news. Tried a few more times but still couldn't get it to start. Waited an hour debating to hit the BMW assist button. Decided to try it one more time and she fired right up! No check engine lights, no drama. Idled like always. Let it run for two hours idling. Temp was good, oil was good, no CELs. Still decided not to take part in day two of the HPDE. Just took rides all day. I live 60 miles from the track or so and did not want to push my luck since I wanted to drive it home if possible. Short way home I started hearing a rattle/knock in the engine under load. Kept telling myself that it was the alternator making noise but in the back of my head I had this horrible thought that it sounded like a rod knock. Made it home. Took it to BMW the next day. They called me two days later saying that the noise was coming from the bottom end and a new engine was on order! Pretty disappointed as you could imagine. For the record, I will say I was anal about my breakin and driving. Never revved past 4k till temp gauge was at the middle, followed the breakin procedure religiously.

Details:
2013 E92 M3
6 Speed
ZCP
Dinan intake, exhaust, pulleys, software
Approximately 6700 miles !!!

Video of engine noise:

Holy 5H1T ?!?! And that with only 6700 miles !
But ohhhhhhh....so lucky that it happened right now and under warranty !
Anyway good luck with your new S65 !

[duk]

omgosh that sounds nasty, but at least you got a new engine!

[thekurgan]

New 702/703 not a solution it seems.

[FazerBoy]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I plan to buy the Bimmerworld rod bearing kit for $750 (WPC treated 702/703 bearings with ARP bolts) this year for my 2008 M3 with 60k miles. The potential damage is not worth the risk of going much longer -- not that age or mileage seems to be the factor.

How much work is involved in fitting this upgrade kit? Does the engine need to come out of the car?

Any idea how much this should cost to fit?

Thanks

Jack

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by thekurgan

New 702/703 not a solution it seems.

Spot on my friend ! And 100 % agreed with the new 702/703 !
Personal i'm still thinking that the bearing failures is a incorrect fitting and maybe even mounting problem ,and this with the old and new types of bearings!
Reason is we have seen on here S65's from 2007/2008 with more than 100K miles on it,and so with the old bearings and this without any bearing problem ,and the new ones with only 6-7K miles on it blown, and need a new engine ?!?!

[chris719]

The new ones seem to blow up more early in the lifespan of the car. Probably a tolerance / mfg issue on those and the harder material is less forgiving.

Early failures vs higher mileage failures are probably two different issues.

[coloradoe92m3]

Totally agree
Less forgiving

[foolio2]

Originally Posted by rantarM3

Sorry to hear that and hope everything turns out well for you. Do you think there is any chance that you could persuade the dealer to let you take photos of the bearings? I think many of us are curious to see what the bearings look like in a late build car like yours. Considering that M3 owners on the forum are a fraction of the total M3 owner population, the number of failures reported on the forum is concerning.

BTW, happy 4th everyone!

I'll get whatever information I can but I doubt it will be much. I have not been up to the dealer to check on the car. It should be done this week. My guess is that they have not disassembled anything but are strictly doing doing a motor swap. I will ask though to see if they will share anything.

[happos2]

Originally Posted by foolio2

I'll get whatever information I can but I doubt it will be much. I have not been up to the dealer to check on the car. It should be done this week. My guess is that they have not disassembled anything but are strictly doing doing a motor swap. I will ask though to see if they will share anything.

WHATTT!? I believe you are the first M3 in Indy with this issue. Didn't know this happened!

[Nautik]

Was chatting with a guy who recently worked in the service department at a local BMW dealership here in Northern VA. Of course the first thing on my mind was to ask him how many instances of blown S65 motors due to rod bearings they have seen. His response was about a half dozen in as many months.

According to him BMW NA is very tight lipped about the whole thing and approves an engine replacement without much feedback as to what went wrong.

Anyway, I thought that was interesting. I would love to see the statistical data on the failure rate. But I believe BMW is going to be hard pressed to pony up an actual recall at this point. Not worth it for them.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by Nautik

Was chatting with a guy who recently worked in the service department at a local BMW dealership here in Northern VA. Of course the first thing on my mind was to ask him how many instances of blown S65 motors due to rod bearings they have seen. His response was about a half dozen in as many months.

According to him BMW NA is very tight lipped about the whole thing and approves an engine replacement without much feedback as to what went wrong.

Anyway, I thought that was interesting. I would love to see the statistical data on the failure rate. But I believe BMW is going to be hard pressed to pony up an actual recall at this point. Not worth it for them.

Looks like the problem isn`t as rare as some of the fanboys keep claiming

[Helmsman]

Tend to agree but still puzzles me why we hear so little about it over here in Europe. Yes around 50% of the cars went to NA, but we still have a fair number here.
Anyhow, guess we never get to the bottom of this, specially now when some of the guys doing good research, such as Regular Guy, is banned...

cheers

[foolio2]

Originally Posted by Nautik

Was chatting with a guy who recently worked in the service department at a local BMW dealership here in Northern VA. Of course the first thing on my mind was to ask him how many instances of blown S65 motors due to rod bearings they have seen. His response was about a half dozen in as many months.

According to him BMW NA is very tight lipped about the whole thing and approves an engine replacement without much feedback as to what went wrong.

Anyway, I thought that was interesting. I would love to see the statistical data on the failure rate. But I believe BMW is going to be hard pressed to pony up an actual recall at this point. Not worth it for them.

My dealer said this was the first M3 they did an engine replacement on. They're usually pretty upfront with information too. Of course, Indianapolis is a smaller M market compared to other cities. I also asked about whether or not they disassembled the bottom end. He said they didn't. They just send it back to BMW. However, he did say they drained the oil and he said they found metal shavings in it. I don't know if that means they tested it and found metal or it was actually visible. Also, he said that they rarely hear back from BMW about what the problems are. So, I may never know. At least I get my car back tomorrow. Two and a half week turnaround I guess isn't that bad.

[tdott]

I'm curious, has there been any cases were they heard rob knock/noise and they were able to replace the bearings before it got to bad and the engine/crank/rods/etc was fine?

or is the very presence of rod knock/noise too late and the crank has to come out for a full bottom end rebuild?