|
|
|
|
Post Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
05-31-2021, 12:00 PM | #1 |
Captain
2208
Rep 865
Posts |
This was made possible by the DIY that e46m3tony created, and after seeing the lengths jvictormp went to (creating a press from a bottle jack!), I decided to give it whirl myself.
I'm no longer the guy that does doughnuts or burnouts, and I wasn't trying to eliminate wheel hop or cure broken diff bolts, so the OEM bushings were never an issue for me....until my first track day. At Thunderhill there is a high speed sweeper (Turn 7), and the rear of my car did this lateral twitch that was really unnerving. The twitch added anxiety that sucked a bit of the fun out of each lap. In fact it added enough anxiety that I decided to invest a lot of effort to do something about it. Since I knew I was going to be removing the rear subframe, I decided that if I was ever going to install an adjustable anti-roll bar, now was the time to do it. I also added braided rear brake lines "while I was in there". The subframe bushings were about $275, the diff bushings were about $161, the Hotchkis anti-roll bar set was about $490, the brake lines were about $161. I replaced the 6 each TTY driveshaft to diff bolts and the 4 each TTY V-Brace bolts as well. (Pics 1-4) get the car off the ground, remove the rear wheels, get the exhaust and the heat shield removed (Pics 5) Mark the location of the alignment prior to disassembly. It helped me feel better during reassembly and then driving the car around for a week prior to getting an alignment (Pic 6-8) Remove the rear calipers and rotors. Disassemble the E-Brake cable (Pic 9, 10) Disconnect the Wheel speed and ride height sensors. Disconnect and cap the brake lines from the chassis (Pic 11,12) Detach the driveshaft from the diff. I had to spray some penetrating oil to pry it loose (Pic 13-15) I removed the differential, but it's not necessary to do so...AND it's totally and completely unsafe the way I did it, can't believe I didn't drop it! (Pic 16-18) Support the Subframe and remove the V-Brace and the 4 subframe bolts (Pic 19) It's out, and nobody was injured! (Pic 20,21) I was getting filthy handling the subframe, so I thought I'd wipe it off. I had some 409 all surface cleaner under the sink and some bicycle cleaner in the garage. I used the 409 to get the bulk of the dirt off, then finished with the MuckOff. The MuckOff dries without leaving an oily film. (Pic 22,23) Removing the OEM diff bushing and installing the Power Flex Purple bushings into the clean subframe (Pic 24,25) Found some pipe that was close and made some "pushers" for each size bushing to get the old ones out. I broke the OEM bushing flanges off with a cold chisel and finished with a pair of pliers, that way I'd have more room to support the subframe as I was pressing out the bushings. (Pic 26-29) I made spacers to support the gap as I was pressing the OEM bushings out, and again while pushing the solids in. Just didn't want the top and bottom bores of the subframe to get out of alignment with each other. Supported the subframe from underneath with a "stripper" and pushed out the old bushings. Added a light film of grease to the new bushings and pressed them in. The spacers I made to fill that gap between the two subframe bores were a really good fit and it didn't take much force to get the solid bushings in, maybe 2-3 tons. I think if there is any deflection between the two bores it will cause some misalignment which will increase the friction (more tonnage required) when pressing either the old ones out or the new ones in. (Pic 30,31) I couldn't stomach installing the filthy suspension back onto the surgically clean subframe, so I sealed off the wheel speed sensor port, cleaned with the pressure washer, dried with compressed air and finished with the MuckOff (Pic 32,33) The cleaning technique worked so well on the suspension bits, might as well do it to the diff as well (Pic 34,35) Reassembled, Hotchkis bar installed and ready to go back into the car. Definitely time for a break. (Pic 36,37) "While I was at it", had to pressure wash the heat shields as well (Pic 38) I'm lucky enough to have a couple of neighbors that are car guys and know their way around a floor jack. One of them was around to help guide the subframe back into position. (Pic 39) All buttoned up, brakes bled and ready to come down for a test
__________________
Chris, 2008 E92 Last edited by Davisca455; 06-04-2021 at 10:14 AM.. |
Appreciate
18
SGM_E90173.00 911r886.50 Frostynorth431.00 //steve\\1074.00 Johal E32163.00 Ajolives901.00 Rochen_00349.50 rg122074.00 SAMM3Y3085.00 jun_e92140.50 e92zero212.00 MisterClutch888550.50 Vedubin01942.50 DrFerry6722.50 slcook541859.50 Erickuokwa489.00 M3E90sedan106.00 tsk941514.50 |
05-31-2021, 12:50 PM | #2 |
Captain
2208
Rep 865
Posts |
I wrapped up the job on April 11.
Did a 20 mile test drive and noted that when the windows are up there is diff whine. It's not wildly obnoxious but it's there and I'm still trying to get used to it. It's not MORE noticeable than the bypass valves for the supercharger, but it's a new noise that my brain is only now just starting to filter out after a month and a half. There are some other new noises as well, soft clunks when moving the car from a dead stop. I think it's just drivetrain lash noise that was masked with all of the rubber bushings. After a couple of weeks of mixed driving and a few very hard pulls from 0-140, I went under the car again and checked the subframe bolt torque. All 4 had loosened, so I'd recommend folks add these to the check list after installation of solid subframe bushings, and for sure prior to a track day. Also, my normal clutch setting is 6, but with the solids it shocks the car on the hard upshifts, so now the new normal clutch setting is 4. Took the car in to check the alignment. I did get the car back to the track on May 21. The bushings were a total homerun. Completely removed the twitching in Turn 7 and with it, all of my anxiety. I even glanced down at the speedometer going around 7 and was surprised to see I was +10mph.
__________________
Chris, 2008 E92 Last edited by Davisca455; 05-31-2021 at 01:33 PM.. |
Appreciate
8
|
05-31-2021, 01:16 PM | #3 |
Weirdo
431
Rep 182
Posts |
Great write up.
Appreciate all the extra pictures. Thanks! |
Appreciate
1
Davisca4552207.50 |
05-31-2021, 07:22 PM | #4 |
Brigadier General
3853
Rep 4,134
Posts |
If I got another E9x M3, solid subframe would be the first thing I do. They should have come from factory like that. Since you're still on stock rear arms, consider doing a spherical conversion. You will feel the extra grip.
|
Appreciate
1
Davisca4552207.50 |
06-03-2021, 11:34 PM | #5 |
Lieutenant Colonel
168
Rep 1,792
Posts |
you need to do this for us fellow M3 owners LOL (with compensation of course)
|
Appreciate
2
Davisca4552207.50 911r886.50 |
06-04-2021, 10:01 AM | #6 |
Derbo Tuning
3592
Rep 3,012
Posts |
Awesome post Davisca455
We will need to discuss our future plans for my subframe haha
__________________
IG:ruhrohz_m3
Journal: Link E9x ZCP Suspension Info: Link Track Chat Discord: https://discord.gg/VsKbTyqBVj SF Bay Area: DM For coding services |
Appreciate
1
Davisca4552207.50 |
06-05-2021, 12:39 PM | #7 |
Captain
2208
Rep 865
Posts |
I'd also like to stress again, the importance of getting your spacers to fit snugly. If the top subframe bushing bore starts to deflect as you are applying force, it will become misaligned with the bottom bore, and I believe that ANY misalignment will drastically increase the amount of force required to remove the OEMs or install the solids. Some of the other posts I've read are claiming WAAAY higher force numbers required than I experienced.
I made a spacer for each side that was an exact fit. They were close to .875" [22.225mm], but I'm certain every subframe has some variance. Also, be careful if you are forcing a tapered spacer into the gap, that has the potential to deflect the two bores in the opposite direction. And I highly recommend getting another person to help position the subframe when it's in the press. My original plan was to fabricate a pair of sheet steel patches and TIG weld them into the gaps between the upper and lower subframe bores, but the paint was in such good shape, I decided to save myself from the added labor of prepping and painting.
__________________
Chris, 2008 E92 |
Appreciate
4
|
06-05-2021, 01:06 PM | #8 |
Captain
887
Rep 923
Posts |
|
Appreciate
1
Davisca4552207.50 |
07-10-2022, 04:54 PM | #10 |
Captain
2208
Rep 865
Posts |
It's in the original post, but I think it was 409 household cleaner and MO94 Muckoff for the subframe.
Pressure washer, compressed air and Muckoff for the suspension bits and the differential.
__________________
Chris, 2008 E92 |
09-17-2022, 10:37 AM | #11 |
Captain
212
Rep 875
Posts |
Davisca455 If you don't mind, for your spacer, did you just place it on the outer lip or your spacer support the inner lip as well for the bushing bore? Thanks.
|
Appreciate
1
Davisca4552207.50 |
09-17-2022, 12:33 PM | #12 | |
Captain
2208
Rep 865
Posts |
Quote:
In the picture below: Item 1 is the "pusher". The pusher is a flat plate that pushes directly on the flange of the new solid bushing. Item 2 is the "stripper". The stripper has a hole (hidden) that is very slightly larger than the bore in the subframe. The stripper supports the subframe (360*) while at the same time providing a relief area for the new bushing to protrude as the bushing flange is fully seated. Item 3 is the support spacer. The spacer keeps the top and bottom bores of the subframe from becoming misaligned while pressing in the new bushing. The support spacer should be a tight fit.
__________________
Chris, 2008 E92 |
|
Appreciate
4
|
09-17-2022, 01:57 PM | #13 |
Captain
212
Rep 875
Posts |
Davisca455 Thanks for the quick reply. It's item #3 that I am questioning. So it looks like it's a square block that only support the outside? There is another lip on the inside right at the bore where where bushing get pushed in. I have seen people trying to use washers to support that inner lip. It looks like that's not necessary in your case? I will follow your method then. Getting ready to do my bushing. Thanks.
|
Appreciate
1
Davisca4552207.50 |
09-17-2022, 02:58 PM | #14 | |
Captain
2208
Rep 865
Posts |
Quote:
My belief is that if there is any gap between the washer stack and the subframe halfs, then there is a possibility of deflection. Not that deflection keeps it from ultimately working, just that more force will required. I used a 4"ish long aluminum bar. If I remember correctly, the bar started life as 1" x 1" square, and I removed something like an 1/8" from one side to get a tight fit.
__________________
Chris, 2008 E92 |
|
Appreciate
3
|
09-17-2022, 03:53 PM | #15 |
Captain
212
Rep 875
Posts |
Davisca455 Thanks for the info and quick reply. Just one more question if you don't mind and remember. Where there a lot of play when mounting the subframe back up or there are dowels that will align it. What method did you use to realign the subframe to the same position as before?
|
Appreciate
1
Davisca4552207.50 |
09-17-2022, 04:56 PM | #16 | |
Captain
2208
Rep 865
Posts |
Quote:
Looking at the front bushings in the picture, it looks like the holes are much larger than clearance holes for the bolts, so I believe the alignment pins are on the front. Anyhow, aligning the car was not a problem.
__________________
Chris, 2008 E92 Last edited by Davisca455; 09-17-2022 at 05:10 PM.. |
|
09-17-2022, 06:08 PM | #17 |
Captain
212
Rep 875
Posts |
Davisca455 Cool! Thank you so much for your response and help!
|
Appreciate
1
Davisca4552207.50 |
09-25-2022, 12:46 AM | #18 |
Captain
212
Rep 875
Posts |
Davisca455 Just want to say thank you so much for your help and answering my questions. My job went smoothly. I ended up using a press plate and it fit perfectly. Froze the tuner solid bushing over night in the freezer, no idea if that actually helped or not, but was able to just press them in with the hand tool.
|
Appreciate
2
Davisca4552207.50 DrFerry6722.50 |
10-21-2022, 12:15 PM | #19 |
Lieutenant
551
Rep 579
Posts |
EXCELLENT WRITE UP. Can't wait to tackle this next year.
__________________
Current - 2011 E90 M3, Jet Black, 6MT ZCP. Recaro/Bilstein/BBS/StopTech/Turner/Pinnacle/BE/Auto Solutions/Macht Schnell/GC/Whiteline/Slon
Sold - 2008 E92 M3, AW x FR, 6MT with E88. CF roof is oh-so-Sexy! IG @misterclutch888 Slow Build |
Appreciate
2
Davisca4552207.50 DrFerry6722.50 |
11-05-2022, 07:32 PM | #20 |
Private First Class
50
Rep 141
Posts
Drives: BMW M3 E92
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Virginia
|
Good DIY!
I tried doing this job, but I didn't have enough time or the right tools. Just DIY took off the rear (front) bushings and I'm taking it into a shop. Some things I COULDN'T figure out. How do you take the parking brake off? I messed with that clip for like 30 minutes, tried prying out the sides and I just couldn't get it off. Also, in pic 16 the back bolt is blocked by a trim piece which is self tapped in. At least I think. How the hell do you take the little black thing off / fit a wrench in there? For the front bushings, no one in the whole hyundai dealership had a cup that fit. I found a 3 1/8" hole saw and it fit PERFECT. Get a threaded bolt, 3 nuts, and a bunch of washers for equal force. Put one nut on one side and 2 on the side of the hole saw and tighten the single nut. It came 85-90% of the way out before it bottomed out and we just hammered it out with a small cup that fit in. It was a 65/14 oil filter socket. 9$. Taking those out was super easy. |
Appreciate
0
|
11-05-2022, 09:02 PM | #21 | |
Captain
2208
Rep 865
Posts |
Quote:
You push in and depress the spring (till it clicks) to create some slack in the cable at the wheel, then you can unhook the clip. I think I either removed or partially removed the trim pieces covering the V-Brace. I'm far away from my car at the moment, but I think there was a 2 piece plastic body rivet. Memory is that I used a razor blade to pry out the center push pin of rivet.
__________________
Chris, 2008 E92 |
|
11-06-2022, 05:42 PM | #22 | |
Private First Class
50
Rep 141
Posts
Drives: BMW M3 E92
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Virginia
|
Quote:
Oh well it's on the way to the shop now. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|