No start after sitting overnight in the cold **FIXED**

[WingZeroX5]

12 Nov 2016 Edit:
Problem fixed. Followed DIY here http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1197330

FYI: The 2 starter bolts are not E14, they're E12

Not that bad of a DIY. Hardest part is NOT removing the starter bolts, but messing around with the engine wiring harness. I did this with a buddy and spent 8 hrs on it since we went slow and cleaning things up as we went along.

The original starter was an OEM Valeo. Purchased off FCPEuro an OEM Bosch. I think the Bosch is a tad bit heavier. Valeo had a two cracks on the starter solenoid

I made my life easier by climbing into the engine bay and sitting there while I used a 12" flex head ratchet to get the starter bolts off. The breather hose is a PITA because it gets in the way, but very doable.

Here's what it sounds like now:

[WingZeroX5]

Original Issue:

So I'm having some issues with the car not starting after sitting in the cold for a day, usually overnight. It only happens when it's cold outside, like 40's or below. Funny thing is that once it starts up, every subsequent attempts are successful.

I know it's not the battery because it's new, AGM 990CCA from Advance Auto. I even had them warranty a new one to completely eliminate that it's the battery. Battery is registered with Tool32
I rarely do short trips, and I always hook the battery up to a tender.

Cleaned up the connections at the Positive post in the engine bay
Cleaned up two ground connections in the engine bay, left side behind the power steering reservoir at the strut post
Cleaned up one ground connection next to the air box, near the right driver strut tower.
Cleaned up all connections in the battery compartment, no signs of corrosion anywhere.

After searching everywhere, there is the engine ground strap, which I have no idea where that is. Some threads say it's under the driver side under tray?

I do not want to jump ahead replace the starter and/or starter solenoid if it's just a simple grounding problem. So far, everything points to the engine ground strap, which often gets corroded...so where is this lol

FYI, I do have two errors from two different modules
ZBE - E2D4
CAS - A0C1

And...there is a "click" near the driver side vent area when I try to start the car...but then nothing happens.

11/6 Update: Changed the engine ground cable (bought from autozone and started right up after sitting for 12 hrs yesterday). Just tried to start it today after sitting for 15 hrs. Temps are now in the low 40's

11/7 Update: New ground cable didn't do shit

Confirm that it's the starter before I drop 400 bucks on it?


okay someone tell me where the engine grounds are at least

[vsix]

Did you changed your exhaust lately?

...

[WingZeroX5]

Originally Posted by vsix

Did you changed your exhaust lately?

...

Like two years ago

Is something there?!

[Apex Everything]

Originally Posted by WingZeroX5

Like two years ago

Is something there?!

There are two ground cords from the exhaust to the car on each side close to the back. A buddy of mine had one that was eaten away and he randomly got codes until he replaced it.

[doogee]

Originally Posted by Apex Everything

There are two ground cords from the exhaust to the car on each side close to the back. A buddy of mine had one that was eaten away and he randomly got codes until he replaced it.

This won't cause a no start issue.

[WingZeroX5]

Originally Posted by Apex Everything

There are two ground cords from the exhaust to the car on each side close to the back. A buddy of mine had one that was eaten away and he randomly got codes until he replaced it.

Originally Posted by doogee

This won't cause a no start issue.

[doogee]

Originally Posted by WingZeroX5

The engine ground strap runs from the driver side of the oil pan to the chassis underneath.

Sounds like a starter failure to me.

I had a similar issue, where the solenoid would work fine when the engine was hot. Once things cooled down, it wouldn't start.

Sounds like you have the same problem.

[WingZeroX5]

Originally Posted by doogee

The engine ground strap runs from the driver side of the oil pan to the chassis underneath.

Sounds like a starter failure to me.

I had a similar issue, where the solenoid would work fine when the engine was hot. Once things cooled down, it wouldn't start.

Sounds like you have the same problem.

Yeah I just changed the ground cable yesterday and now I hear the starter going, but fails.

Added video

[WingZeroX5]

for update. Replaced the starter and it fires right up now.

[pbonsalb]

Does not look like fun. Buried right in the bottom of the V.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by WingZeroX5

for update. Replaced the starter and it fires right up now.

Good job ! Your S65 sounds good and runs smooth

[WingZeroX5]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Good job ! Your S65 sounds good and runs smooth

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Does not look like fun. Buried right in the bottom of the V.

Not going to lie, it was a bit involved. But I'd rather do this than messing around under the car, like the DCT fluid / filter change

Definitely helps when you have a buddy helping out!

Felt like I did a full body workout though haha

[Rajmun340]

I have a recurrent problem with a car not starting once the weather gets cold. It's been happening since i owned the car new 10 years. First i replaced battery and it would work for a year, same problem next winter. Next they replaced starter, it worked for 3 winters and now same problem again, WTF. It's not an M3 but i hoped i might learn sth.

[WingZeroX5]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

I have a recurrent problem with a car not starting once the weather gets cold. It's been happening since i owned the car new 10 years. First i replaced battery and it would work for a year, same problem next winter. Next they replaced starter, it worked for 3 winters and now same problem again, WTF. It's not an M3 but i hoped i might learn sth.

check the grounding, maybe starter relay too

edit: just saw that once starter was replaced

It's the starter is my guess

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by WingZeroX5

check the grounding, maybe starter relay too

edit: just saw that once starter was replaced

It's the starter is my guess

new oem starter was replaced couple years ago. Battery seems weak but shouldn't be as it is 1 year old. Cranks but almost doesn't start, soon it won't start at all. It ALWAYS happen at the first winter frost. Battery has new connectors too. Alternator ?

[WingZeroX5]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

new oem starter was replaced couple years ago. Battery seems weak but shouldn't be as it is 1 year old. Cranks but almost doesn't start, soon it won't start at all. It ALWAYS happen at the first winter frost. Battery has new connectors too. Alternator ?

Go to autozone and have them test out your charging system

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by WingZeroX5

Go to autozone and have them test out your charging system

Ok, i will go to them, but now i remember that when dealership replaced the starter they first tested the alternator and no problem there. What i hate is when they tell me it's my battery for the N times when i know it isn't.

[WingZeroX5]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

Ok, i will go to them, but now i remember that when dealership replaced the starter they first tested the alternator and no problem there. What i hate is when they tell me it's my battery for the N times when i know it isn't.

Process of elimination, least to most expensive. Check grounding wires after, then relays and stuff.

[AWDBooSTIn90]

Originally Posted by Rajmun340

Ok, i will go to them, but now i remember that when dealership replaced the starter they first tested the alternator and no problem there. What i hate is when they tell me it's my battery for the N times when i know it isn't.

You ever figure this out? What voltage are you getting at the engine jump start lead in engine bay to ground? Check it while starting and see how low it goes.

Have you checked the batteries two positive wire connection bulkheads thru the PS rear fender, and then you would test the wires and check for corrosion in the PS rear wheel well behind the covers. Should be two studs with nuts with a big wire and the other a medium sized wire.

The medium sized wire goes straight from the wheel well into the car and to the JBE Positive Feed Stud with a nut.

The big wire goes straight up into the engine bay to the Positive Jump Start Cable connection closest to the PS side of the bottom of the jump start lead attachment point.
The wire to the right of that should have a direct connection and it continues to the starter first (e9x 328/335) and continues straight to the alternator that is just above the starter feed stud. The alternator should also have battery voltage at all times like the starter and jump start lead battery block for the B cable (+12v).

An easy way to check to see if its a ground is to take one side of a jumper cable and connect to the ground lead under the hood and the other side of that jumper cable to the transmission or engine block on something beefy by the starter, my 6MT 335i has a thick piece of the block that a jumper cable can go onto and be your new test ground cable..
If it starts up fine now, you know the starter isn’t getting a good enough ground. If you already checked and/or replaced the 2-3 engine ground cables. You could also add an extra ground from the chassis to the engine block in the starter area..

[InnerBlueSkies]

God Bless you for being able to get in that engine compartment.

[WingZeroX5]

Originally Posted by InnerBlueSkies

God Bless you for being able to get in that engine compartment.

Lol. Had to think outside the box to get comfortable trying to get that back bolt

If you have a creeper over the engine, that'll be perfect