Track forum general chit chat.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by kolosy

from yesterday at blackhawk farms

dude walked away, no injuries. makes me reconsider a roll bar.

yeeesh snap oversteer?

[Ximian]

All I know is that if I plan on going faster than I do now, I'd rather be in a factory made race car. GT3 Cup cars are getting pretty cheap.

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

yeeesh snap oversteer?

he thinks he dropped a wheel and then yeah.. hard to tell though.

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by Ximian

All I know is that if I plan on going faster than I do now, I'd rather be in a factory made race car. GT3 Cup cars are getting pretty cheap.

This

However people forget; cheap to buy in. Expensive to stay in

Cup cars aren't necessarily cheap to maintain as everything times out

I did some SSM this past weekend and I understand the vibe. 40 car field. Cheap thrills. Slow as fuck. But it was a party

Hate the amount of contact however.....

[jmeenach]

Originally Posted by kolosy

he thinks he dropped a wheel and then yeah.. hard to tell though.

Oof, he's lucky to be uninjured (I bet he's sore AF though). I run a 4-point harness and HANS, but watching this makes me want to put in a half cage, bucket, and 6-point. I like to tell myself I don't push hard enough to need more than what I have at the moment, but this is a reminder that I'm likely lying to myself...

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by jmeenach

Oof, he's lucky to be uninjured (I bet he's sore AF though). I run a 4-point harness and HANS, but watching this makes me want to put in a half cage, bucket, and 6-point. I like to tell myself I don't push hard enough to need more than what I have at the moment, but this is a reminder that I'm likely lying to myself...

I’m actually wondering if he was better off than I would’ve been. I run a quickfit pro with stock seats (and a HANS). I know the quickfit is designed to handle a roof collapse, but I’m not sure how. His folded in down the middle of the car, it was nuts. Profile of the car was fine, but you look at it head on (later) and it’s got a 2 foot V in the roof line.

[jmeenach]

Originally Posted by kolosy

I’m actually wondering if he was better off than I would’ve been. I run a quickfit pro with stock seats (and a HANS). I know the quickfit is designed to handle a roof collapse, but I’m not sure how. His folded in down the middle of the car, it was nuts. Profile of the car was fine, but you look at it head on (later) and it’s got a 2 foot V in the roof line.

That's my exact concern (I run the same exact setup as you). I'm 6'4, so there isn't much headroom to spare if the roof goes inward instead of outward. Not sure what would happen at all with my carbon roof, so that doesn't make me feel much better...

My initial plan was to install a Slon panel between the rear seat and trunk, along with a harness bar. I wanted a clean look without adding back in weight that I would be removing with rear seat removal. That said, even if a half cage isn't NASA/SCCA spec, I'd imagine that to be a safer alternative?

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

However people forget; cheap to buy in. Expensive to stay in

Cup cars aren't necessarily cheap to maintain as everything times out

Those maintenance/rebuild intervals are sometimes based on being competitive in the racing series' those were designed to compete. The trick is that backing off a few hundred RPMs on each shift and you can easily double the duration of some of those rebuild intervals.

I like that some of them come ready to go with fresh rebuilds, several sets of wheels, and sometimes spares. The drawback is that you still have to deal with issues and part failures where it's not easy to find spares or troubleshooting information.

[RalliartRsX]

The spares issue is why you don't see a bump of TCR cars running around although they are as fast as some GT4 spec cars

[TheMechanic]

Do you guys track on summer tires or track tires. I am on Pilot supersports right now...

Is there anything else then sport cup 2's that I can use around town and track ? and will not send my wife into fences in rain ?

[Cmassey3]

Originally Posted by TheMechanic

Do you guys track on summer tires or track tires. I am on Pilot supersports right now...

Is there anything else then sport cup 2's that I can use around town and track ? and will not send my wife into fences in rain ?

There's the Goodyear Supercar 3 non-r that's more affordable than the Cup 2s. Also now there's the 240tw and 180tw Cup 2s, with the 240 being longer lasting.

Track tires are track tires, I watched a lot of spins on cars in the wet at VIR for folks than only brought 200tw track sets.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by TheMechanic

Do you guys track on summer tires or track tires. I am on Pilot supersports right now...

Is there anything else then sport cup 2's that I can use around town and track ? and will not send my wife into fences in rain ?

I swear by the V730 (200TW) tires for all my track days. I use them both on the track and for daily driving, and they cost me less than $1100 to replace, sometimes even less during discount tire or Tire Rack sales.

For 18-inch wheels, I go for 275/35/18. For staggered OEM ZCP, I opt for 275/35/19 and 305/30/19.

The V730s tires run narrow, so don't worry too much about the widths. They'll be closer to 265/35/19, 295/30/19, or 265/35/18 if using the 18-inch option.

Another great option that won't break the bank and serves as an excellent semi-track day / daily tire is Conti ECS 02 (340TW). Priced under $1600, depending on sizing, I use them in 285/30/18 for my daily and canyon driving. Yes, it's overkill to go square in this size, but it's more for the stance—lol. The same concept applies to tracking a PS4S: higher cold PSI, max hot 40psi, and don't drive the tires to their limit if you want them to last. They also have great water evacuation. Personally, I think they perform better in the rain than the PS4S.

They also offer a wide range in 19-inch sizes. You can opt for 265/35/18 with 295/30/19 if you want to be precise on sizing..

I've had good experiences with the Supercar 3 (220TW) as mentioned by Cmassey3 , which come in the same aforementioned sizes as above for 19s, but limited to 275/35/18..if you have 18s. these are usually around $1300 as well.

ECS 02 (340TW)- https://www.tirerack.com/tires/conti...ntact-sport-02
V730 (200TW) - https://www.tirerack.com/tires/kumho-ecsta-v730
Supercar 3 (220TW) - https://www.tirerack.com/tires/goody...-f1-supercar-3

[TheMechanic]

Thank you all; I have 2 sets of wheels, both stock 19" bmw, and I keep one with winter tires. I had bad experience with the Goodyears on my previous 2013 Shelby GT500... almost crashed it twice on cold tires.

Those tires could not stick on 3rd gear until warmed up, but that was a 670HP monster
EDIT: I remember they were the earlier version of supercar 2 or something, definitely not V3.


I think the kumhos look good and are a good option; how do they behave on street when cold and wet (not winter cold, just not warmed up) ?

[jmeenach]

Originally Posted by TheMechanic

Do you guys track on summer tires or track tires. I am on Pilot supersports right now...

Is there anything else then sport cup 2's that I can use around town and track ? and will not send my wife into fences in rain ?

The reality is that any 200TW tire is not going to last a long time, nor are they really rated for the wet. Both my Cup 2's and RE71RS's came with large "These are not intended to be driven in wet conditions" warnings. Many people will complain about Cup 2 on track compared to other 200TW tires (which I agree with), but my real complaint was on the street when the tires were cold. Zero traction.

There will be a tradeoff somewhere. Your current PSS will get torn apart if you track regularly or if you are putting down decent lap times. BUT they will give you far better wet traction when needed. Just need to find the balance that makes you happy.

[TheMechanic]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

I swear by the V730 (200TW) tires for all my track days. I use them both on the track and for daily driving, and they cost me less than $1100 to replace, sometimes even less during discount tire or Tire Rack sales.

For 18-inch wheels, I go for 275/35/18. For staggered OEM ZCP, I opt for 275/35/19 and 305/30/19.

The V730s tires run narrow, so don't worry too much about the widths. They'll be closer to 265/35/19, 295/30/19, or 265/35/18 if using the 18-inch option.

Another great option that won't break the bank and serves as an excellent semi-track day / daily tire is Conti ECS 02 (340TW). Priced under $1600, depending on sizing, I use them in 285/30/18 for my daily and canyon driving. Yes, it's overkill to go square in this size, but it's more for the stance—lol. The same concept applies to tracking a PS4S: higher cold PSI, max hot 40psi, and don't drive the tires to their limit if you want them to last. They also have great water evacuation. Personally, I think they perform better in the rain than the PS4S.

They also offer a wide range in 19-inch sizes. You can opt for 265/35/18 with 295/30/19 if you want to be precise on sizing..

I've had good experiences with the Supercar 3 (220TW) as mentioned by Cmassey3 , which come in the same aforementioned sizes as above for 19s, but limited to 275/35/18..if you have 18s. these are usually around $1300 as well.

ECS 02 (340TW)- https://www.tirerack.com/tires/conti...ntact-sport-02
V730 (200TW) - https://www.tirerack.com/tires/kumho-ecsta-v730
Supercar 3 (220TW) - https://www.tirerack.com/tires/goody...-f1-supercar-3

Many thanks for this; the stock sizes are 245/35/19 , 265/35/19 . You are saying I can go as high as 275 and 305 on these wheels? Do you get much better traction on track?

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by TheMechanic

Many thanks for this; the stock sizes are 245/35/19 , 265/35/19 . You are saying I can go as high as 275 and 305 on these wheels? Do you get much better traction on track?

Yeah, you can run as high as those specs; it works better on the V730 than it would on the ECS 02, though, since the V730 runs much narrower. For the ECS 02, I'd probably try to stay around 265/35/19 and 285/30/19. If I only had lowering springs on my car, those sizes would probably be comfortable to run with.

For what it's worth, the E92 GTS used 255/35/19 and 285/30/19.

I should note that going past 285, you should be prepared to make some adjustments for fitment, such as alignment and removal of rear spacers if you have them, as the tire could make contact with the edge of the fender.

I think roastbeef ran 305/30/19 PSS on the rear of his ZCP wheels.

So, regarding your question about cold temperatures, it's not the best. The V730 LOVES to get heat into them; they perform great once that happens. Personally, if I were a better driver, I probably could do 15-20 minute hard sessions, and the tire wouldn't drop off until the last lap, most likely. It's not the fastest tire. This is considered an enduro 200TW. Because it runs a bit narrow, the steering response is great up front due to the slight stretch, and it has great tire roll-over characteristics as well. But mainly, this tire is great on heavy cars like ours since we can get heat into the V730s easily.

It kind of sucks if they are not heat cycled, though, but that gets fixed after a few events and just from daily driving.

I also drove them in the SoCal rainstorms from OC to Santa Barbara recently. It just required more focus than normal, and my tires were balding at the time—lmao.

I can't be bothered to change my alignment when I'm street driving.

Alignment:
Camber: -3.3°F -2.5°R
Toe Front: 0°
Toe Rear: 0.17 total Toe-In

And to be honest, I ran too much camber for a 275/35/18 V730. I needed to back it down to like -2.5°F and -2.0°R because at -3.3°F, I was basically on the edge of the sidewall, so the tire itself could've worn better over time. As by the time I replaced them at 13K miles, they corded on the edge as expected. So with that knowledge, you could get away with less camber if needed. see image of my heavily worn and used V730s at 13k-ish miles.. and yes I'm really bad at remembering to rotate my tires.

Also, if the V720 ACR is good enough to be a Factory Viper ACR tire, it's good enough for me. Because the word on the street is, the V730 is just a relabeled V720 ACR.

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

i might have hilariously miss read your statement then.. you mean the wing is flexing on your trunk? cause i thought you said you wing was literally moving.

this is what the underside looks like with the plates. not sure there's anything else i can do short of going to a different wing with a chassis mount...

[jmeenach]

Originally Posted by kolosy

this is what the underside looks like with the plates. not sure there's anything else i can do short of going to a different wing with a chassis mount...

One of my friends is having a subframe-mounted support brace that will come through the trunk floor and the spoiler mounts will sit on top of that brace when closed. It was the only way he was able to stop the flex on the OEM trunk. I haven't seen it complete yet, but happy to share details/pics when I finally do.

Another option (maybe) would be to swap to a carbon trunk. Not sure if it would crack over time with holes being drilled through the carbon weave, though.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by jmeenach

One of my friends is having a subframe-mounted support brace that will come through the trunk floor and the spoiler mounts will sit on top of that brace when closed. It was the only way he was able to stop the flex on the OEM trunk. I haven't seen it complete yet, but happy to share details/pics when I finally do.

Another option (maybe) would be to swap to a carbon trunk. Not sure if it would crack over time with holes being drilled through the carbon weave, though.

this is an alternative way to do it as well.

i think i have the drawing for this cylindrical tube thingy.. some where. once i find it i'll share it i think there was a p/n for it also but i dont remember.

but the idea is you support the top skin of the trunk, with the additional metal piece welded to the actual skeleton of the trunk to support it more.

I wonder if kolosy can resolve this by just adding a washer. On top of the bracket he has to spread the load a bit more? since its such a wide piece of metal lol.