Sponsored by The Tire Rack

[Billj747]

Hey guys,

We just installed a new set of VMR V703 wheels and Continental DW tires on Project E90 M3 and headed over to Palm Beach International Raceway to do some hot laps complete with Motec data to see how this setup performs.

The lap time and cornering G's surprised us, check it out here:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...and-Tires.aspx




Part 1 thread: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=943053

Part 2 thread: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...8#post15436248

Part 3 thread: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1157527


Enjoy!

[cenix]

Nice article, thanks for sharing. My favorite factoid (which I totally agree with) that you guys posted was this:

"In addition, the car is severely under-tired for its weight with 245/265 width tires that are not wide enough to hold up to serious track use.* To make the M3 more trackable, it’s common practice to run race compound brake pads, a 275 square or 275/295 staggered tire setup which greatly increases the tire volume, and to remove the rear seats and replace the heavy 10-way adjustable electric seats with racing buckets to shave off a few hundred pounds."

[chris @ eas]

Great review! you can never go wrong with that set up

[pbonsalb]

Apex are lighter than VMR and DW are cruiser tires, but overall still greater performance than stock. Not a bad combination since DW are light like PSS, but not the best possible combo.

[Billj747]

Apex don't look as close to the CSL wheel as the VMR and cost more. It's hard to beat the wet/dry performance per dollar for a DAILY DRIVER than this setup. There's only one tire that's as good/better as the DW for wet/dry performance. I've been quite happy with the results.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by Billj747

Apex don't look as close to the CSL wheel as the VMR and cost more. It's hard to beat the wet/dry performance per dollar for a DAILY DRIVER than this setup. There's only one tire that's as good/better as the DW for wet/dry performance. I've been quite happy with the results.

Because those tires are on clearance for $202/each for the rears, yeah, the bang for the buck is hard to beat. But I also daily drive R888s in wet/dry conditions, and I have to say that I have no complaints.

[Richbot]

eek zombie thread!

[Billj747]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

Because those tires are on clearance for $202/each for the rears, yeah, the bang for the buck is hard to beat. But I also daily drive R888s in wet/dry conditions, and I have to say that I have no complaints.

Only 1 tire had as good of wet/dry performance as the DW, and that was the Michelin PSS.

The DW is on clearance because their new ExtremeContact SPORT is significantly better:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...act-Sport.aspx

(ExtremeContact SPORT - tire test by MotoIQ with Motec Data from Palm Beach International Raceway)

[Z K]

Hopefully the new ExtremeContact Sport is good... the DW was cheap which is what it had going for it. I bought them on sale for my daily driver a few years ago. Otherwise I wasn't very impressed.

I've had the PSS (on M3) and the DW (on daily driver) before. The PSS was a good street tire but the outer edge chunks apart on track and it doesn't last long. It also had soft sidewalls that muted the turn in response. The DW has even softer sidewalls... again a good street tire but definitely not good on track.

Right now running AD08R on my weekend track day car and the new Pirelli P Zero PZ4 on my daily driver. I think I'll wait for another extreme performance tire that is as track and street friendly as the AD08R. I'm pretty impressed with the PZ4 as well, a lot more grippy and quiet than the DW.

The real comparison for these max performance tires will be the Michelin PS4S vs the ExtremeContact Sport vs the Pirelli PZ4 and whatever else new gen tires are out now.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by Billj747

Only 1 tire had as good of wet/dry performance as the DW, and that was the Michelin PSS.

The DW is on clearance because their new ExtremeContact SPORT is significantly better:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...act-Sport.aspx

(ExtremeContact SPORT - tire test by MotoIQ with Motec Data from Palm Beach International Raceway)

Not disputing why the tire is up for sale, I'm agreeing with you that the bang for the buck is awesome. As far as the PSS vs the R888, I've run them both, as well as PS2s. I hardly ever drive the car in the rain as most of the time I drive the truck (you guys follow me on IG, you should know that *lol*) but I was just saying that for the times I've driven it in the rain on the R888s, there's been no drama.

[Billj747]

Originally Posted by Z K

Hopefully the new ExtremeContact Sport is good... the DW was cheap which is what it had going for it. I bought them on sale for my daily driver a few years ago. Otherwise I wasn't very impressed.

I've had the PSS (on M3) and the DW (on daily driver) before. The PSS was a good street tire but the outer edge chunks apart on track and it doesn't last long. It also had soft sidewalls that muted the turn in response. The DW has even softer sidewalls... again a good street tire but definitely not good on track.

Right now running AD08R on my weekend track day car and the new Pirelli P Zero PZ4 on my daily driver. I think I'll wait for another extreme performance tire that is as track and street friendly as the AD08R. I'm pretty impressed with the PZ4 as well, a lot more grippy and quiet than the DW.

The real comparison for these max performance tires will be the Michelin PS4S vs the ExtremeContact Sport vs the Pirelli PZ4 and whatever else new gen tires are out now.

If the edges are chunking, you either dont have enough camber and/or the tire is too small for the car. PSS' hold up very well on a GT350 Mustang, but it has much wider tires than what's even typically run on aftermarket wheels for M3s. This is a good article to read in regards to sizing and selecting tires:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...RFORMANCE.aspx

If you have a heavy car and small tires, you need to go to a more aggressive track-focused tire to make it live on track. If you have a good weight:tread ratio, a less track-focused tire with better wet characteristics will live and work - like the GT350.

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

Not disputing why the tire is up for sale, I'm agreeing with you that the bang for the buck is awesome. As far as the PSS vs the R888, I've run them both, as well as PS2s. I hardly ever drive the car in the rain as most of the time I drive the truck (you guys follow me on IG, you should know that *lol*) but I was just saying that for the times I've driven it in the rain on the R888s, there's been no drama.

The PS2, PSS, PS4S, ExtremeContact DW & Sport are UHP tires.

The R888, MPSC2, TrofeoR are "Streetable Track & Competition" tires - a completely different class of tire that's track-focused.

The AD08R, RS3, StarSpec, GoodYear Eagle F1 Supercar G3, are "Extreme Performance Summer Tires" -that is a middleground between the above.


I've also run R888s in the wet and while I agree they're alright, you can't really compare it to a UHP tire that is FAR better in the wet and not as track focused.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by Billj747

I've also run R888s in the wet and while I agree they're alright, you can't really compare it to a UHP tire that is FAR better in the wet and not as track focused.

Agreed

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Billj747

If the edges are chunking, you either dont have enough camber and/or the tire is too small for the car. PSS' hold up very well on a GT350 Mustang, but it has much wider tires than what's even typically run on aftermarket wheels for M3s. This is a good article to read in regards to sizing and selecting tires:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...RFORMANCE.aspx

If you have a heavy car and small tires, you need to go to a more aggressive track-focused tire to make it live on track. If you have a good weight:tread ratio, a less track-focused tire with better wet characteristics will live and work - like the GT350.

I am running the stock size tires on the stock wheels. I have KW suspension but no camber plates so the front camber is not adjustable. As for the chunking, I've only seen it on the PSS. The AD08R is holding up fine. I've put them through 6 track days and 10k miles of daily driving and they still have plenty of tread.

I'll definitely take the advise to get more tire though. The rear breaks loose a little more than I'd like on throttle and the front can use a bit more grip.

I did a track day at Laguna Seca during a storm... Thunder, lightning and tons of water coming down. We were driving around with the wipers going full speed and limited visibility. Tons of standing water and streams flowing across the track... It wasn't very fast but the AD08R was okay. Lots of sliding and spinning.

[Billj747]

Originally Posted by Z K

I am running the stock size tires on the stock wheels. I have KW suspension but no camber plates so the front camber is not adjustable. As for the chunking, I've only seen it on the PSS. The AD08R is holding up fine. I've put them through 6 track days and 10k miles of daily driving and they still have plenty of tread.

I'll definitely take the advise to get more tire though. The rear breaks loose a little more than I'd like on throttle and the front can use a bit more grip.

I did a track day at Laguna Seca during a storm... Thunder, lightning and tons of water coming down. We were driving around with the wipers going full speed and limited visibility. Tons of standing water and streams flowing across the track... It wasn't very fast but the AD08R was okay. Lots of sliding and spinning.

The E9X M3 is severely under-tired. The AD08R is a more aggressive and track-focused tire (with a worse ride quality, noise, life, wet performance) than the PSS. It does not surprise me that it holds up to track use better than a PSS.

You might want to consider camber plates to get at least -1.5* of front camber. That will greatly increase the longevity of the tire. You'll probably need 275-295 or 295-305 width tires to make PSS last on track.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Billj747

The E9X M3 is severely under-tired. The AD08R is a more aggressive and track-focused tire (with a worse ride quality, noise, life, wet performance) than the PSS. It does not surprise me that it holds up to track use better than a PSS.

You might want to consider camber plates to get at least -1.5* of front camber. That will greatly increase the longevity of the tire. You'll probably need 275-295 or 295-305 width tires to make PSS last on track.

I have 1.2 degrees of camber in front from removing the top strut pin and pushing in the top as much as possible.

Definitely looking at increasing the tire size. I was getting rubbing on the rear fender liner with AD08R stock size rear tires and a 10mm spacer so I don't think I can run that wide in back. I can maybe fit a 275 in back if I stick to the AD08R. Otherwise I'd shave the fender liner off.

[Billj747]

AD08's run wide.

The BMW-spec PSS & the brand new Continental ExtremeContact Sport have:

-10.7" Section Widths
-9.4" Tread Widths.


The AD08R has a:

-10.5" Section Width
-10.2" Tread Width. (0.6" wider than PSS)