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      11-14-2019, 11:10 AM   #23
ChiBimmer
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Originally Posted by wfdeacon88 View Post
I think the most likely scenario that I will ever drive a Camaro involves a situation where I am provided one by Hertz rent-a-car at random.
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      11-14-2019, 01:21 PM   #24
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I also cross shopped these. My needs were engaging drivetrain, solid handling for the street, adequate interior space (2 kids seats in back), enough HP to be able to adjust handling balance in turns. Interior tech and interior quality, while nice to haves, were not important.

I absolutely loved the camaro. The interior issues didn’t phase me much, visibility was annoying tho and would become more than an annoyance at night and in winter (being in Canada means it’s dark from 430pm in winter months, and driving at night felt like sitting in an isolation tank). Backseat was not big enough (legroom, headroom) to allow my son to sit in his car seat in back behind the driver. I would have to drive too close to give him room. In fact, I found the backseat less spacious than a 997 911 I also test drove.

I honestly would have almost let the above slide given the sound and authenticity to the driving experience. Driven back to back with an f80m4, I enjoyed the camaro more from a purely “enjoy driving” perspective, and it indeed rode far better with its magnetic shocks across all settings. Day to day though, the m4 would be much better in terms of space, comfort and quality. I honestly don’t know enough about long term durability of the camaro to comment on that.

The biggest driving complaint I had was the camaro size. On the roads I tend to drive, being so wide (and with visibility so poor) really affected how much fun I could have, as the car couldn’t “adjust” and “set” within the lane the way a smaller and narrower car could. Also, the visibility made it necessary to “trust” the position of outside corners more than “feel” or see them. A race track though would address that.

The e92 gave me the best of all worlds. The drivetrain engagement the m4 lacked, the external size the camaro didn’t have, the quality and day to day useability of the m4, and the interior and rear seat space close to the m4.

Will keep mine at least until I trade it for a 911 of some sort, but who knows, I may keep it.
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      11-14-2019, 10:42 PM   #25
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It's not NA engine or a V8 but would you consider an m2 with the n55 or s55? You can get a manual, the exhaust sounds good on the n55 especially with the m performance exhaust, the back seat is pretty useable especially for kids, feels small, handles better than the e90 m3 out of the box, and you can see out of it.
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      11-14-2019, 11:14 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by 14_deltaM3 View Post
I also cross shopped these. My needs were engaging drivetrain, solid handling for the street, adequate interior space (2 kids seats in back), enough HP to be able to adjust handling balance in turns. Interior tech and interior quality, while nice to haves, were not important.

I absolutely loved the camaro. The interior issues didn't phase me much, visibility was annoying tho and would become more than an annoyance at night and in winter (being in Canada means it's dark from 430pm in winter months, and driving at night felt like sitting in an isolation tank). Backseat was not big enough (legroom, headroom) to allow my son to sit in his car seat in back behind the driver. I would have to drive too close to give him room. In fact, I found the backseat less spacious than a 997 911 I also test drove.

I honestly would have almost let the above slide given the sound and authenticity to the driving experience. Driven back to back with an f80m4, I enjoyed the camaro more from a purely "enjoy driving" perspective, and it indeed rode far better with its magnetic shocks across all settings. Day to day though, the m4 would be much better in terms of space, comfort and quality. I honestly don't know enough about long term durability of the camaro to comment on that.

The biggest driving complaint I had was the camaro size. On the roads I tend to drive, being so wide (and with visibility so poor) really affected how much fun I could have, as the car couldn't "adjust" and "set" within the lane the way a smaller and narrower car could. Also, the visibility made it necessary to "trust" the position of outside corners more than "feel" or see them. A race track though would address that.

The e92 gave me the best of all worlds. The drivetrain engagement the m4 lacked, the external size the camaro didn't have, the quality and day to day useability of the m4, and the interior and rear seat space close to the m4.

Will keep mine at least until I trade it for a 911 of some sort, but who knows, I may keep it.
Thanks. We have similar taste in cars and obviously not label conscious. Your post is really thoughtful. I think the people in this group really know cars which is why I asked for thoughts on the Camaro You might be the only commenter who has actually driven one. It's got shortcomings but it's amazing in a lot of ways. It's out of my price range but I'm curious If you shopped the ats-v. It seems to solve the visibility and backseat issues though I'm not sure the turbo six is an improvement on the V8.


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Originally Posted by akkando View Post
It's not NA engine or a V8 but would you consider an m2 with the n55 or s55? You can get a manual, the exhaust sounds good on the n55 especially with the m performance exhaust, the back seat is pretty useable especially for kids, feels small, handles better than the e90 m3 out of the box, and you can see out of it.
My budget is around $25k. I prefer NA but if I could afford one I'd give the M2 and M2 comp a drive along with the F80 M3, and ATS-V. I had an N54 135i and I got bored of it. The M cars even with similar engines are in another league though.
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      11-15-2019, 07:48 AM   #27
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Lol. I've driven both. I'm likely to get an E90 m3. There's a lot to love but it may just come down to practically which the E90 has over the Camaro. I don't know about ultimate driving whatever. It's kinda numb which is the direction of every three series since the first one. I'm not here to take any enjoyment from your car. Enjoy it.
Have you tried the car with traction control off? There can be huge difference between driving with MDM/TC on vs. completely off.

I usually drive on mountain roads with everything fully off, suspension on comfort and throttle response on sport. With the right camber, the car's cornering capability in tight mountains of Kodaiji is staggering for such a big car. I'll try with the AiM logger tomorrow to see if the average speed actually matches that of my Z3 1.9...

The car is refined but far from numb; and I've come from some of the all-time driver's cars like S2000 and Z4.
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      11-15-2019, 08:13 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiBimmer View Post
Lol. I've driven both. I'm likely to get an E90 m3. There's a lot to love but it may just come down to practically which the E90 has over the Camaro. I don't know about ultimate driving whatever. It's kinda numb which is the direction of every three series since the first one. I'm not here to take any enjoyment from your car. Enjoy it.
Have you tried the car with traction control off? There can be huge difference between driving with MDM/TC on vs. completely off.

I usually drive on mountain roads with everything fully off, suspension on comfort and throttle response on sport. With the right camber, the car's cornering capability in tight mountains of Kodaiji is staggering for such a big car. I'll try with the AiM logger tomorrow to see if the average speed actually matches that of my Z3 1.9...

The car is refined but far from numb; and I've come from some of the all-time driver's cars like S2000 and Z4.
Interesting. I've test drive 5 E9x M3 but never with traction off. I'm not sure I would turn the traction off until I owned it for a while but it's great to hear that it can improve the feel. Z4M is bucket list. The 1.9 Z3 sounds like a blast!
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      11-15-2019, 09:23 AM   #29
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Euro MDM is a good compromise on traction control. I leave it on most of the time. On my E36M3, in comparison, traction control was so intrusive that I removed it many years ago, Traction control technology is getting better and better and is adjustable on some performance cars now rather than just on or off.
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      11-15-2019, 03:34 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiBimmer View Post
Thanks. We have similar taste in cars and obviously not label conscious. Your post is really thoughtful. I think the people in this group really know cars which is why I asked for thoughts on the Camaro You might be the only commenter who has actually driven one. It's got shortcomings but it's amazing in a lot of ways. It's out of my price range but I'm curious If you shopped the ats-v. It seems to solve the visibility and backseat issues though I'm not sure the turbo six is an improvement on the V8.




My budget is around $25k. I prefer NA but if I could afford one I'd give the M2 and M2 comp a drive along with the F80 M3, and ATS-V. I had an N54 135i and I got bored of it. The M cars even with similar engines are in another league though.
Your welcome! While I love the luxury brands, it’s always been secondary to what matters most to me: how does the car drive and how does it make me feel.

I would have loved to try an ATS-V but they are rare around here, and even more so if you want a manual or a manual 4 door (which is what I wanted).

In a lot of ways, it could have been perfect as an alternative to a camaro (I like the looks better, is quite a bit smaller in footprint, and offers useable back seats in the 4 door). The problem I had with it in theory was I would have always wanted the v8 from the Camaro and not a turbo 6. Perhaps if I drove it, it wouldn’t matter.
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      11-29-2019, 04:01 AM   #31
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Chibimmer, i always find i buy a car from the soul.....why bother asking others what you should buy?

Does it matter how a car does on track.......if you never track it?

Does it matter how quick the car gets off the line and hammers down the qtr mile.........if you dont race people on a drag strip?

Buy a car on how you feel about driving it. How it feels on the road.

After owning 2 E36 M3 Evo's, 1 E46 CS, 1 E60 M5, 1 E90 335d & 1 E93 M3 i thought i had it down to a T. Didnt, and now have a Merc......we all make mistakes. Try not to with this purchase of yours.

End of input.

Last edited by N24SHS; 11-29-2019 at 04:04 AM.. Reason: Another line.
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      11-29-2019, 09:55 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by N24SHS View Post
Chibimmer, i always find i buy a car from the soul.....why bother asking others what you should buy?

Does it matter how a car does on track.......if you never track it?

Does it matter how quick the car gets off the line and hammers down the qtr mile.........if you dont race people on a drag strip?

Buy a car on how you feel about driving it. How it feels on the road.

After owning 2 E36 M3 Evo's, 1 E46 CS, 1 E60 M5, 1 E90 335d & 1 E93 M3 i thought i had it down to a T. Didnt, and now have a Merc......we all make mistakes. Try not to with this purchase of yours.

End of input.
Largely agree. I think it's hard to get a complete feel for a car from a couple of test drives. I wondered if some people had experience. I love the feel of the Camaro actually. Not too concerned with its lap or drag times.
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      12-05-2019, 08:41 PM   #33
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https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1628217

Read my comments in this thread (post 13 & 19)...
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      12-10-2019, 10:17 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by M3R1 View Post
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1628217

Read my comments in this thread (post 13 & 19)...
Good points. It's always great to see an enthusiast who sees the merits in other brands.

The quality issues with the Camaro didn't bother me but that that was just a couple test drives. The visibility and lack of rear seat room are problematic. The size combined with the poor visibility are a bad combo—I felt like I was going to hit curbs and I couldn't see the lines on the road.

The E92 feels number than the Camaro or E46. It isn't satisfying at all at low rpm where the Camaro is. I felt like I had to wind it out and go really fast to have fun. The nvh is so well handled it doesn't feel fast until it's really fast. I put up some numbers on the speedometer during my drives that were high but didn't feel it. In my S2000, 90 feels like it. Most of my driving is at low speed limits and I don't think the E92 is fun car slow. That may not be it's intended purpose but that's part of my criteria. Others who have more open roads may enjoy the E92 more than I have.

I still might get one just because I think it's the most luxurious of three and the sedan is better for a family car.
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      12-11-2019, 06:38 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by ChiBimmer View Post
Good points. It's always great to see an enthusiast who sees the merits in other brands.

The quality issues with the Camaro didn't bother me but that that was just a couple test drives. The visibility and lack of rear seat room are problematic. The size combined with the poor visibility are a bad combo—I felt like I was going to hit curbs and I couldn't see the lines on the road.

The E92 feels number than the Camaro or E46. It isn't satisfying at all at low rpm where the Camaro is. I felt like I had to wind it out and go really fast to have fun. The nvh is so well handled it doesn't feel fast until it's really fast. I put up some numbers on the speedometer during my drives that were high but didn't feel it. In my S2000, 90 feels like it. Most of my driving is at low speed limits and I don't think the E92 is fun car slow. That may not be it's intended purpose but that's part of my criteria. Others who have more open roads may enjoy the E92 more than I have.

I still might get one just because I think it's the most luxurious of three and the sedan is better for a family car.
E9X's with a supercharger checks all the boxes... Add big brakes and fat meats and you might not ever long for another car. Well, perhaps I am speaking for myself.

I spent my entire life compromising in one way or another because of money constraints (both foreign and domestic). Personally as my car sits right now, I do not see anything that compares.
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      Yesterday, 10:54 PM   #36
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I came from a Gen 5 Camaro 2SS with 1LE bits I sprinkled about.

You will not be sad driving that car, but a M3 is a M3. A M3 is literally the ruler people use to gauge performance.

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