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      10-04-2017, 01:55 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by zipper228 View Post
Everything I'm saying is based off my research. Have you priced Camry warranties? All things equal, premiums are significantly lower because, as you state, the anticipated repairs are lower. All I'm saying is logic should tell you that the warranty co's can't stay in business if they don't come out ahead over the life of the majority of policies. Among policy holders, you'll have a few winners and a lot of losers. If a model like an M3 requires more expensive repairs, they will price the policy for those vehicles accordingly higher or just not cover them.
I have helped multiple friends and family research warranties on "regular cars" and they are usually overpriced, in fact I have never recommended pulling the trigger. The premiums I have seen are surprisingly NOT significantly lower than what I paid for my M3 coverage. I have also seen an extraordinary range of prices for the same level of coverage on the M3. Carmax and credit union backed warranties are typically a much better proposition than anything else I've found (by a long shot). Just about everyone I've talked to who owns a German luxury car outside of warranty has complained about at least one very expensive repair that would have been covered by an extended warranty. My own warranty has covered multiple times what I paid for it within the first year of ownership, though I am an extremely unlucky example/outlier.
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      10-10-2017, 05:49 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by tdott View Post
@<$400 for a new Valdeo alternator with lifetime warranty if bought from FCP and a quick DIY. I'm not worried esp since they don't go often.
My repair was done at the dealer with OEM parts.
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      10-10-2017, 05:57 AM   #113
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Alright. Looks like this thread got lots of great discussions going. Lets go another direction now.

Ok.. Now about me. I am the Manufacturer Rep for Launch Scanners for the state of Florida. We have some pretty good coverage in the European vehicles. Nearly factory coverage. So needless to say, its a great tool on BMW.

So yesterday i was in a Hyundai dealer speaking to one of the techs there about getting a scanner from his Matco dealer. In talking to him he told me that they have a major recall on ROD BEARINGS going bad on newish vehicles. The fix is to replace the entire long block.. So I asked him how they diagnosis the failure. He said that they put a listening device in the oil dipstick tube and measure the noise level. PRETTY COOL..

This got me thinking. All modern engines have their own listening devices internal. The Knock Sensor... So what I am going to do is hook up one of my Launch Scanners and with the engine on first start I am going to look at the Knock Sensor in Graph mode to see if it picks up any low end noise. It just might be a way to diagnose these types of problems without relying on actually trying to hear it over the already loud engine. It might also be the reason many M3 owners say that their car felt sluggish before they replaced the bearings. Just might be the knock sensor listening to the low end knock and retarding the timing. It's worth me doing a test.

Photos to follow later today. Should be fun.


Last edited by M_Three; 10-10-2017 at 06:03 AM..
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      10-10-2017, 06:22 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by M_Three View Post
Alright. Looks like this thread got lots of great discussions going. Lets go another direction now.

Ok.. Now about me. I am the Manufacturer Rep for Launch Scanners for the state of Florida. We have some pretty good coverage in the European vehicles. Nearly factory coverage. So needless to say, its a great tool on BMW.

So yesterday i was in a Hyundai dealer speaking to one of the techs there about getting a scanner from his Matco dealer. In talking to him he told me that they have a major recall on ROD BEARINGS going bad on newish vehicles. The fix is to replace the entire long block.. So I asked him how they diagnosis the failure. He said that they put a listening device in the oil dipstick tube and measure the noise level. PRETTY COOL..

This got me thinking. All modern engines have their own listening devices internal. The Knock Sensor... So what I am going to do is hook up one of my Launch Scanners and with the engine on first start I am going to look at the Knock Sensor in Graph mode to see if it picks up any low end noise. It just might be a way to diagnose these types of problems without relying on actually trying to hear it over the already loud engine. It might also be the reason many M3 owners say that their car felt sluggish before they replaced the bearings. Just might be the knock sensor listening to the low end knock and retarding the timing. It's worth me doing a test.

Photos to follow later today. Should be fun.

I don't believe the s65 has actual knock sensors (uses ionic current knock sensing), but I'd be interested in hearing more about this on the s62/s54 (which have a bunch)!
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      10-10-2017, 06:36 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
I don't believe the s65 has actual knock sensors (uses ionic current knock sensing), but I'd be interested in hearing more about this on the s62/s54 (which have a bunch)!
I am not sure the type of sensor matters really. They are both listening for the same thing and will produce a spike on the graph.. But we shall see as it's just a simple plug in the OBD port.. Gonna do it this morning as I leave for a meeting at BMW of all places.
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      10-10-2017, 07:13 AM   #116
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They are both listening for the same thing and will produce a spike on the graph..
Not really, the s65 knock sensors predict knock based on cylinder pressures, whereas traditional knock sensors measure knock after detonation based on noises or the vibrations. They are two different systems for detecting knock.
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      10-10-2017, 07:15 AM   #117
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My repair was done at the dealer with OEM parts.
I'm sorry to hear that, one day you will realize how much of a waste it is going to a dealer for anything other than warranty or recall work.
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      10-10-2017, 07:27 AM   #118
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I'm sorry to hear that, one day you will realize how much of a waste it is going to a dealer for anything other than warranty or recall work.
It WAS warrantee
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      10-10-2017, 07:38 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by M_Three View Post
So yesterday i was in a Hyundai dealer speaking to one of the techs there about getting a scanner from his Matco dealer. In talking to him he told me that they have a major recall on ROD BEARINGS going bad on newish vehicles. The fix is to replace the entire long block.. So I asked him how they diagnosis the failure. He said that they put a listening device in the oil dipstick tube and measure the noise level. PRETTY COOL..

This got me thinking. All modern engines have their own listening devices internal. The Knock Sensor... So what I am going to do is hook up one of my Launch Scanners and with the engine on first start I am going to look at the Knock Sensor in Graph mode to see if it picks up any low end noise. It just might be a way to diagnose these types of problems without relying on actually trying to hear it over the already loud engine. It might also be the reason many M3 owners say that their car felt sluggish before they replaced the bearings. Just might be the knock sensor listening to the low end knock and retarding the timing. It's worth me doing a test.

Photos to follow later today. Should be fun.
Cool idea, hope you can figure it out. The problem is that the S65 has neither an oil dipstick or knock sensors. Thanks BMW

Instead of acoustic knock sensors to adjust timing, the ignition coils have build in ion sensing circuits to sense pre-ignition. They won't pick up anything unrelated to detonation.
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      10-10-2017, 07:41 AM   #120
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It WAS warrantee
Yes with your $3900 warranty.
I was just pointing out that the part is actually not that expensive and many jobs are fairly easy to DIY, it's the labor that kills you. Basically I'm just saying that contrary to what some are saying that they would never own a bmw without warranty. I'm just saying if you are handy for small things and use knowledgeable independent shops, they actually aren't that bad. My car has been out of warranty for over 5 years, I've driven it over 50k miles and haven't spent close to $3900 and that include me doing rob bearings, both TAs and other small misc stuff.
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      10-10-2017, 08:04 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdott View Post
Yes with your $3900 warranty.
I was just pointing out that the part is actually not that expensive and many jobs are fairly easy to DIY, it's the labor that kills you. Basically I'm just saying that contrary to what some are saying that they would never own a bmw without warranty. I'm just saying if you are handy for small things and use knowledgeable independent shops, they actually aren't that bad. My car has been out of warranty for over 5 years, I've driven it over 50k miles and haven't spent close to $3900 and that include me doing rob bearings, both TAs and other small misc stuff.
Although I 100% agree with you and follow the same philosophy, there are many people who do not have the ability or the space/tools/resources to do many of these jobs. For them, spending extra for the dealer to do it is worth the trade off. I had some friends in NYC who had nice cars and had to street park them every day because they did not have garages in their area. That would make me sick, but just shows you that everyone values different things, and for these people doing rod bearings on the streets on NYC isn't really an option. Just an example.
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      10-10-2017, 08:48 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by M_Three View Post
I am not sure the type of sensor matters really. They are both listening for the same thing and will produce a spike on the graph.. But we shall see as it's just a simple plug in the OBD port.. Gonna do it this morning as I leave for a meeting at BMW of all places.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdott View Post
Not really, the s65 knock sensors predict knock based on cylinder pressures, whereas traditional knock sensors measure knock after detonation based on noises or the vibrations. They are two different systems for detecting knock.
Yeah. The S65 measures the current flow in the post combustion ion trail between the plug electrodes to measure efficiency during combustion and adjusts accordingly. It doesn't detect knock itself, so much as the conditions that will create knock.

Whereas a knock sensor is more like a microphone, detecting actual knock and pulling timing when it does.

My suspicion would be that by the time the rod bearings are knocking enough for a knock sensor to pick it up, it's already too late-- so both systems won't work. But, I am intrigued to see the results!

But, yeah, non starter on the s65/s85.
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      10-10-2017, 04:07 PM   #123
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Well, of course the idea of using scan data won't work with this " advanced' system we have in our M's. Maybe BMW should have been so advanced when they designed the rod bearings.
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      10-10-2017, 04:15 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdott View Post
Yes with your $3900 warranty.
I was just pointing out that the part is actually not that expensive and many jobs are fairly easy to DIY, it's the labor that kills you. Basically I'm just saying that contrary to what some are saying that they would never own a bmw without warranty. I'm just saying if you are handy for small things and use knowledgeable independent shops, they actually aren't that bad. My car has been out of warranty for over 5 years, I've driven it over 50k miles and haven't spent close to $3900 and that include me doing rob bearings, both TAs and other small misc stuff.
Yeah man.. I understand.. In my case, and being in the auto industry, I have many resources when it comes to fixing my car. The reason I use the dealer is because I get a loaner car and it's warrantee. But that said. I don't think I have the time to do any DIY stuff these days. Nor do I have the desire to do any. I guess spending 20 years as a tech kinda burned me out.

I don't consider driving 50K in 5 years any serious mileage. I will put on 30,000 in a year. Its no wonder not much has gone wrong with your car.
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      06-05-2018, 01:18 PM   #125
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So what would the labor be to drop in a new engine ?
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      12-04-2018, 06:24 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by M_Three View Post
Yeah man.. I understand.. In my case, and being in the auto industry, I have many resources when it comes to fixing my car. The reason I use the dealer is because I get a loaner car and it's warrantee. But that said. I don't think I have the time to do any DIY stuff these days. Nor do I have the desire to do any. I guess spending 20 years as a tech kinda burned me out.

I don't consider driving 50K in 5 years any serious mileage. I will put on 30,000 in a year. Its no wonder not much has gone wrong with your car.
Its Dec 2018 now and i am a new owner of one low mileage (55k km) 2008 e93 m3.

Sent my oil for analysis and just got the alarming result.

Wonder if u went ahead with the change afteral? Or did u wait for awhile before changing?
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      12-04-2018, 06:30 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deansbimmer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Three View Post
So yesterday i was in a Hyundai dealer speaking to one of the techs there about getting a scanner from his Matco dealer. In talking to him he told me that they have a major recall on ROD BEARINGS going bad on newish vehicles. The fix is to replace the entire long block.. So I asked him how they diagnosis the failure. He said that they put a listening device in the oil dipstick tube and measure the noise level. PRETTY COOL..

This got me thinking. All modern engines have their own listening devices internal. The Knock Sensor... So what I am going to do is hook up one of my Launch Scanners and with the engine on first start I am going to look at the Knock Sensor in Graph mode to see if it picks up any low end noise. It just might be a way to diagnose these types of problems without relying on actually trying to hear it over the already loud engine. It might also be the reason many M3 owners say that their car felt sluggish before they replaced the bearings. Just might be the knock sensor listening to the low end knock and retarding the timing. It's worth me doing a test.

Photos to follow later today. Should be fun.
Cool idea, hope you can figure it out. The problem is that the S65 has neither an oil dipstick or knock sensors. Thanks BMW

Instead of acoustic knock sensors to adjust timing, the ignition coils have build in ion sensing circuits to sense pre-ignition. They won't pick up anything unrelated to detonation.
Comments pleaseeee
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      12-04-2018, 09:59 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impastokitsch View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by deansbimmer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Three View Post
So yesterday i was in a Hyundai dealer speaking to one of the techs there about getting a scanner from his Matco dealer. In talking to him he told me that they have a major recall on ROD BEARINGS going bad on newish vehicles. The fix is to replace the entire long block.. So I asked him how they diagnosis the failure. He said that they put a listening device in the oil dipstick tube and measure the noise level. PRETTY COOL..

This got me thinking. All modern engines have their own listening devices internal. The Knock Sensor... So what I am going to do is hook up one of my Launch Scanners and with the engine on first start I am going to look at the Knock Sensor in Graph mode to see if it picks up any low end noise. It just might be a way to diagnose these types of problems without relying on actually trying to hear it over the already loud engine. It might also be the reason many M3 owners say that their car felt sluggish before they replaced the bearings. Just might be the knock sensor listening to the low end knock and retarding the timing. It's worth me doing a test.

Photos to follow later today. Should be fun.
Cool idea, hope you can figure it out. The problem is that the S65 has neither an oil dipstick or knock sensors. Thanks BMW

Instead of acoustic knock sensors to adjust timing, the ignition coils have build in ion sensing circuits to sense pre-ignition. They won't pick up anything unrelated to detonation.
Comments pleaseeee
One oil test is almost useless, you need to establish a trend. Even then, I had an established trend with no alarming results and my bearings still didn't look great when I replaced them. If you're worried about it, replace the bearings. Simple as that.
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      12-05-2018, 12:29 PM   #129
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Comments pleaseeee

Quote:
One oil test is almost useless, you need to establish a trend. Even then, I had an established trend with no alarming results and my bearings still didn't look great when I replaced them. If you're worried about it, replace the bearings. Simple as that.
Just change your bearings. Everyone is doing it, man.
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      12-05-2018, 04:59 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Iyzmi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impastokitsch View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by deansbimmer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Three View Post
So yesterday i was in a Hyundai dealer speaking to one of the techs there about getting a scanner from his Matco dealer. In talking to him he told me that they have a major recall on ROD BEARINGS going bad on newish vehicles. The fix is to replace the entire long block.. So I asked him how they diagnosis the failure. He said that they put a listening device in the oil dipstick tube and measure the noise level. PRETTY COOL..

This got me thinking. All modern engines have their own listening devices internal. The Knock Sensor... So what I am going to do is hook up one of my Launch Scanners and with the engine on first start I am going to look at the Knock Sensor in Graph mode to see if it picks up any low end noise. It just might be a way to diagnose these types of problems without relying on actually trying to hear it over the already loud engine. It might also be the reason many M3 owners say that their car felt sluggish before they replaced the bearings. Just might be the knock sensor listening to the low end knock and retarding the timing. It's worth me doing a test.

Photos to follow later today. Should be fun.
Cool idea, hope you can figure it out. The problem is that the S65 has neither an oil dipstick or knock sensors. Thanks BMW

Instead of acoustic knock sensors to adjust timing, the ignition coils have build in ion sensing circuits to sense pre-ignition. They won't pick up anything unrelated to detonation.
Comments pleaseeee
One oil test is almost useless, you need to establish a trend. Even then, I had an established trend with no alarming results and my bearings still didn't look great when I replaced them. If you're worried about it, replace the bearings. Simple as that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyzmi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impastokitsch View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by deansbimmer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Three View Post
So yesterday i was in a Hyundai dealer speaking to one of the techs there about getting a scanner from his Matco dealer. In talking to him he told me that they have a major recall on ROD BEARINGS going bad on newish vehicles. The fix is to replace the entire long block.. So I asked him how they diagnosis the failure. He said that they put a listening device in the oil dipstick tube and measure the noise level. PRETTY COOL..

This got me thinking. All modern engines have their own listening devices internal. The Knock Sensor... So what I am going to do is hook up one of my Launch Scanners and with the engine on first start I am going to look at the Knock Sensor in Graph mode to see if it picks up any low end noise. It just might be a way to diagnose these types of problems without relying on actually trying to hear it over the already loud engine. It might also be the reason many M3 owners say that their car felt sluggish before they replaced the bearings. Just might be the knock sensor listening to the low end knock and retarding the timing. It's worth me doing a test.

Photos to follow later today. Should be fun.
Cool idea, hope you can figure it out. The problem is that the S65 has neither an oil dipstick or knock sensors. Thanks BMW

Instead of acoustic knock sensors to adjust timing, the ignition coils have build in ion sensing circuits to sense pre-ignition. They won't pick up anything unrelated to detonation.
Comments pleaseeee
One oil test is almost useless, you need to establish a trend. Even then, I had an established trend with no alarming results and my bearings still didn't look great when I replaced them. If you're worried about it, replace the bearings. Simple as that.
Yes am doing it.

But Auto talents seems to be holding on to my order since last week.
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      12-07-2018, 11:07 AM   #131
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My warranty story is the following: I bought my M3 without knowing much about the specific issues with the engine. But, I have been playing with German cars for long enough of a time that it would give me piece of mind to have some type of coverage at least early on to cover me if my car turned out to be a Friday car. So I ended up with a 2 year warranty on the car. My thought was that if the car required a bunch of warranty claims in that time period, I'd just get rid of the car once the warranty up. And 2 years should be enough time to determine if the car is generally solid.

So here's how it all went down. I had $0 warranty claims. Almost everything I've done to the car at this point is maintenance, aesthetics, or performance upgrade-related. Do I regret spending the money on a warranty? Hell no. With my luck, I would have had a miserable ownership experience if I rolled the dice without any type of coverage.

Like others, my opinion on aftermarket warranties are that they were there for piece of mind, just like insurance. I think there is definitely value in them, if you pick the right one, particularly if you are buying a car that can be very expensive to fix and you aren't sure about its history.
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      12-07-2018, 05:46 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by New2Roundel View Post
My warranty story is the following: I bought my M3 without knowing much about the specific issues with the engine. But, I have been playing with German cars for long enough of a time that it would give me piece of mind to have some type of coverage at least early on to cover me if my car turned out to be a Friday car. So I ended up with a 2 year warranty on the car. My thought was that if the car required a bunch of warranty claims in that time period, I'd just get rid of the car once the warranty up. And 2 years should be enough time to determine if the car is generally solid.

So here's how it all went down. I had $0 warranty claims. Almost everything I've done to the car at this point is maintenance, aesthetics, or performance upgrade-related. Do I regret spending the money on a warranty? Hell no. With my luck, I would have had a miserable ownership experience if I rolled the dice without any type of coverage.

Like others, my opinion on aftermarket warranties are that they were there for piece of mind, just like insurance. I think there is definitely value in them, if you pick the right one, particularly if you are buying a car that can be very expensive to fix and you aren't sure about its history.
Same scenario here, bought an '08 E92 with 70k miles, two year warranty. $0 in claims. Don't regret it.
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