Enhanced Premium Sound upgrade

[Jerktown]

Originally Posted by Technic

What you really want then is the OEM Logic7 system that is optional in the 3 Series...

Actually, when test-driving, the L7 335i did sound better to me than the enhanced in the m3 - maybe the way they were each EQed, who knows. It's not the L7 functionality I'd really want from the MS-8, though - it's the auto-tune/RTA/xover stuff.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Jerktown

Actually, when test-driving, the L7 335i did sound better to me than the enhanced in the m3 - maybe the way they were each EQed, who knows. It's not the L7 functionality I'd really want from the MS-8, though - it's the auto-tune/RTA/xover stuff.

It sounded better to me also...

[Technic]

Originally Posted by jml

Dirac does a lot more than this, it adjusts the phase and boost at hundreds of points along the frequency spectrum. This is dependent not only on the interior response of the car, but the speakers, and the average road noise. If you've ever seen the output from the PC software that connects to a receiver with Audyssey, I am pretty sure Dirac is doing something similar. Net is you *have* to get rid of the OEM amp to reach the full potential of an aftermarket setup - otherwise it's going to sound a bit off. Kind of a waste to start with Enhanced audio.....

That was part of the development of this system, once in the car all those EQ curves, time alignments parameters are modified by just speed and volume level input (this system sounds the best the higher the volume level). There's no microphone in the car for any feedback of road noise level...

Optimum acoustics are ensured by two
additional functions: speed-dependent volume control and

speed-dependent equalizing.

[Cocobolo]

I had the 335i but didn't have premium audio option. I now have E92 M3 with Enhanced Premium Audio and I'm quite disappointed with the sound. I'm no spring chicken and in my younger days I always had the latest/greatest audio setups in my car (Alpine CD/receiver, Alpine Amps, Altec Speakers, Alpine Eq). In fact this interest led me to pursue a degree in engineering (BSEE ODU '93). After college, I didn't fool around much with custom audio in my cars. However, I would like to mess around with my M3 a little. I used to do all my own installs as I used to enjoy it. Sounds like everything is now plug/play for the most part.

Couple of questions for Technic or others:
1. Typically, the old adage goes that the poorest OEM audio component is the speakers and upgrading to quality, aftermarket speakers is the single biggest improvement for your buck. I haven't seen that discussed here other than replacing the Subs. So I assume all speakers except the Subs are ok? And why replace the subs...only because of their impedance mismatch with aftermarket amps?

2. I haven't dealt with DSP car audio components with all the multitude of adjustments. Do pre-config'd templates (for say different types of music) that can be loaded exist? OR is there an "auto-tune" feature using an external mic like some of the home theater systems utilize?

3. I see that there are tons of amp brands I'm not familiar with from the days of old (we had Alpine, Nakimichi, JBL, et.al.). What are some of the more reliable, cleaner brands out there today? I'm not talking about some high-end, vaccum tube model that only Professional athletes would have installed but rather something that gives good, trouble-free service at a reasonable price. I see Crutchfield carries Alpine, Kicker, JL Audio, Infinity Ref, et. al. Is MOSFET pwr supplies still the going thing?

4. Do the latest amps run any cooler than pre MOSFET models...you couldn't touch one of my old Alpines for more than a couple of sec.

BTW, nice job on this post guys!

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Cocobolo

I had the 335i but didn't have premium audio option. I now have E92 M3 with Enhanced Premium Audio and I'm quite disappointed with the sound. I'm no spring chicken and in my younger days I always had the latest/greatest audio setups in my car (Alpine CD/receiver, Alpine Amps, Altec Speakers, Alpine Eq). In fact this interest led me to pursue a degree in engineering (BSEE ODU '93). After college, I didn't fool around much with custom audio in my cars. However, I would like to mess around with my M3 a little. I used to do all my own installs as I used to enjoy it. Sounds like everything is now plug/play for the most part.

Couple of questions for Technic or others:
1. Typically, the old adage goes that the poorest OEM audio component is the speakers and upgrading to quality, aftermarket speakers is the single biggest improvement for your buck. I haven't seen that discussed here other than replacing the Subs. So I assume all speakers except the Subs are ok? And why replace the subs...only because of their impedance mismatch with aftermarket amps?

2. I haven't dealt with DSP car audio components with all the multitude of adjustments. Do pre-config'd templates (for say different types of music) that can be loaded exist? OR is there an "auto-tune" feature using an external mic like some of the home theater systems utilize?

3. I see that there are tons of amp brands I'm not familiar with from the days of old (we had Alpine, Nakimichi, JBL, et.al.). What are some of the more reliable, cleaner brands out there today? I'm not talking about some high-end, vaccum tube model that only Professional athletes would have installed but rather something that gives good, trouble-free service at a reasonable price. I see Crutchfield carries Alpine, Kicker, JL Audio, Infinity Ref, et. al. Is MOSFET pwr supplies still the going thing?

4. Do the latest amps run any cooler than pre MOSFET models...you couldn't touch one of my old Alpines for more than a couple of sec.

BTW, nice job on this post guys!

1. That old adage somewhat changed in the last 10 years, as OEM speakers have become pretty decent in sound quality, much more if they are fed real amplifier power. In the particular case of the Enhanced Premium Audio, the OEM 4" component and coaxials are of a very high quality -both in construction/materials used and sound quality. Unfortunately there are no specs available for a honest/technical comparison with aftermarket so this is more like a personal opinion than something tested scientifically in a bench.

What I do know after two slightly different setups is that the OEM 4" drivers can hold their own pretty nicely at more than 100W RMS each, they are clean and clear at higher than "normal" volume and with the right EQ/processing they are extremely defined without any apparent distortion. What I also found of great benefit is that these OEM 4" are 4 ohms each -compared with the 2 ohms of the standard OEM 4" and in the Logic7 of the 3 Series- so they are much more versatile in wiring configurations with aftermarket amps that are stable to 2 ohms, so they can be wired in parallel and don't need additional amplifier channels. Personally I do not feel the need for any replacement of these drivers.

The OEM underseat woofers is another story. First their impedance was too high (7 ohms) and the bass was not as impressive as I expected. The SWS-8 are really the only game in town so far that can solve completely those 2 issues. With the right amount of power and tuning they can fool anybody in thinking that there is a (small) sub in the trunk.

2. Both the DQXS and the bit one have presets, so different EQ curves can be loaded on the fly. However, none of these processors have any "autotune" feature. So far only the Alpine PXE-H650 has it right now and the "forever in development" JBL MS-8 will have it. After using some of these "autotune" features in home theater systems I'm still not convinced that they will do a better job than me tuning the system to my liking.

I think that the problem is that the "autotune" algorithms are based into what dedicated formulas say music should sound like. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you like the result. However, if the fundamental issue here is that the Enhanced Premium Audio processing/tuning -which is developed specifically for the interior of this car using microphones, perfectly measured speaker distances, time correction and proprietary "autotune" software- is not that great for example, why I would want another device that basically will do slightly less intensive as the factory the same auto-processing in my car?

3. I don't think that it is easy to name aftermarket brands that are better or worse than others once you pass a certain point in price and application. So any name brand could do as long as you know what you really are looking for (size, power output, sound pressure, active crossovers, built in DSP, digital inputs, etc) and can afford the price. For example, I was looking specifically for size, power and number of channels, reliability, low distortion/noise, high heat dissipation and moderate cost, in that particular order. So right now only the PDX line of amps can give me all that; close second was the HD line from JL Audio, but their price was kind of whack...

4. The big thing now is the class D amps as more and more manufacturers are offering this type of amps for the clear advantages of being considerably smaller than the traditional class A/B, relatively powerful for their size and run cooler, all which helps a lot at intallation time and locations in the car. That doesn't mean that big amps cannot have built in fans and other tricks in their power supplies and heat sinks that make them run also way cooler than before, though.

[Cocobolo]

Originally Posted by Technic

1. That old adage somewhat changed in the last 10 years, as OEM speakers have become pretty decent in sound quality, much more if they are fed real amplifier power. In the particular case of the Enhanced Premium Audio, the OEM 4" component and coaxials are of a very high quality -both in construction/materials used and sound quality. Unfortunately there are no specs available for a honest/technical comparison with aftermarket so this is more like a personal opinion than something tested scientifically in a bench.

What I do know after two slightly different setups is that the OEM 4" drivers can hold their own pretty nicely at more than 100W RMS each, they are clean and clear at higher than "normal" volume and with the right EQ/processing they are extremely defined without any apparent distortion. What I also found of great benefit is that these OEM 4" are 4 ohms each -compared with the 2 ohms of the standard OEM 4" and in the Logic7 of the 3 Series- so they are much more versatile in wiring configurations with aftermarket amps that are stable to 2 ohms, so they can be wired in parallel and don't need additional amplifier channels. Personally I do not feel the need for any replacement of these drivers.

The OEM underseat woofers is another story. First their impedance was too high (7 ohms) and the bass was not as impressive as I expected. The SWS-8 are really the only game in town so far that can solve completely those 2 issues. With the right amount of power and tuning they can fool anybody in thinking that there is a (small) sub in the trunk.

2. Both the DQXS and the bit one have presets, so different EQ curves can be loaded on the fly. However, none of these processors have any "autotune" feature. So far only the Alpine PXE-H650 has it right now and the "forever in development" JBL MS-8 will have it. After using some of these "autotune" features in home theater systems I'm still not convinced that they will do a better job than me tuning the system to my liking.

I think that the problem is that the "autotune" algorithms are based into what dedicated formulas say music should sound like. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you like the result. However, if the fundamental issue here is that the Enhanced Premium Audio processing/tuning -which is developed specifically for the interior of this car using microphones, perfectly measured speaker distances, time correction and proprietary "autotune" software- is not that great for example, why I would want another device that basically will do slightly less intensive as the factory the same auto-processing in my car?

3. I don't think that it is easy to name aftermarket brands that are better or worse than others once you pass a certain point in price and application. So any name brand could do as long as you know what you really are looking for (size, power output, sound pressure, active crossovers, built in DSP, digital inputs, etc) and can afford the price. For example, I was looking specifically for size, power and number of channels, reliability, low distortion/noise, high heat dissipation and moderate cost, in that particular order. So right now only the PDX line of amps can give me all that; close second was the HD line from JL Audio, but their price was kind of whack...

4. The big thing now is the class D amps as more and more manufacturers are offering this type of amps for the clear advantages of being considerably smaller than the traditional class A/B, relatively powerful for their size and run cooler, all which helps a lot at intallation time and locations in the car. That doesn't mean that big amps cannot have built in fans and other tricks in their power supplies and heat sinks that make them run also way cooler than before, though.

Technic...thanks much...I think I'll wait just a bit for the new technology and do an implementation similar to yours without having to convert the digital (MOST) to analog before feeding to the Bit One. From what I've picked up here, the design will go something like this: the Dig Audio (MOST protocol) will come directly into the mObridge (bypassing OEM amp that was doing D2A). It is then coverted to Toslink protocol and sent to the Bit One. From the Bit One, analog audio sent to Alpine PDX amps...correct?

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Technic

4. The big thing now is the class D amps as more and more manufacturers are offering this type of amps for the clear advantages of being considerably smaller than the traditional class A/B, relatively powerful for their size and run cooler, all which helps a lot at intallation time and locations in the car. That doesn't mean that big amps cannot have built in fans and other tricks in their power supplies and heat sinks that make them run also way cooler than before, though.

I'll add another name into the mix. Arc Audio KS mini. They have a 4 channel and a mono available. The 4 channel is slightly less power than the Alpine PDX 4.100 but they use a modified class AB topology called class G instead of class D. It's supposed to provide class AB sound quality while getting close to class D efficiency varying the amp rail voltage as needed to keep up with the input signal. Size wise, they are more rectangular than the PDX or JL HD amps but area is about the same.

[Blake]

great thread guys, subscribed.

[Technic]

After weeks of enjoying the bit one, some problems developed in connecting thru USB to my laptop, sometimes it was simply impossible to connect to the bit one. Thinking that a firmware update just introduced was going to solve that issue (from 1.3 to 1.5), after the upgrade my bit one started again not summing the bass with the mid-hi as the first couple of calibrations when new.

Fast forward last week... I received the newest revision, the bit one.1 as exchange to my malfunctioning unit. In addition to be running firmware 1.5 several hardware changes was also made in this new unit.

Unfortunately, whatever issues I used to have now they became more and worst: hiss, turn off loud pop and muffled sound quality. This was a real mess of "revision".

After talking with the Audison engineers, authorized dealers looking for another M3 installation of the bit one with Premium Audio and several tests during the weekend, the solution was to remove the high level inputs from the bit one coming from the OEM amp and use an AudioControl LC6i between the OEM amp and the bit one low level inputs...

Problems completely solved.

It seems to me -although not confirmed by Audison- that the first version of the bit one really was able to handle the 200W peak at 7 ohms (37V peak) per sub channel, but the firmware was buggy. Now with the revision also changing the hardware it was no longer at all capable of even handling 20V thru the high level inputs. The input saturation was so bad that the PDX amp gains had to be maxed out to at least hear some muddy, flat bass at high volume. That gain as max also caused the loud pop at turn off by picking up any OEM amp turn off electrical noise thru the sub channels.

No such issues with the LC6i, as it is capable of handling up to 40V of signals per channel. Thus I used it to sum the bass with the front mid-hi and as well to get the low level input to a strong 4V peak. That way the bit one was able to output full 4V peak because it was not saturated anymore and so the PDX amps gain could be set al minimum, eliminating the hiss and the loud pop. Now the sound after calibration and tuning is outstanding, slightly better than before as the mid bass is stronger coming from the OEM 4" mids now. The bit one could not even sum the signals correctly with so much bass voltage coming out of the OEM HU before this addition

I did not want to add any more equipment to my setup, actually I wanted to completely remove the OEM amp and install the mObridge MOST>Toslink converter, but the sucker is unavailable right now and the announced price is estimated to be in the $500 range... thanks, but no thanks. This input level issue had to be solved as soon as possible or the bit one or the OEM amp were going to be damaged. So this is a nice interim solution until either the price of this mObridge unit settle down when available or wait until other manufacturers start offering MOST converters as well.

So the verdict is in: the bit one.1 cannot handle the Premium Audio system at the high level inputs. The initial units are no longer sold and are not recommended if you find one still in stock somewhere; they have issues as well. I recommended to Audison to try to address this issue by increasing the voltage handling of the high level inputs to 40V peak (as all the AudioControl high level devices) and to change the calibration software to also show when the level inputs are either low or high, as right now it only tells you if the input levels are low but not high. So you can be saturating the bit one inputs without knowing it.

So far the bit one.1 can handle the HiFi OEM amp (the standard system in the M3 and 3-Series) and the Logic7 OEM amp (only 3-Series) outputs at the high level input section. The OEM amp in the HiFi can be completely removed and the OEM HU/iDrive outputs used as straight inputs into the low input section of the bit one using RCA plugs, no need of anything else.

[808MGuy]

Good to hear that a lot of the issues were solved but sucks that it just can't handle the high level output. I wonder if they will ever fix that because that would involve a hardware upgrade not just a software tweak. I guess using the Audiocontrol is not such a bad solution since you already had it.

I'm still on the fence about the BitOne but its more of a cost issue than functional issue now. Do I go cheap and just get the Zapco DC reference amp with the processor built in or do I go with the BitOne and another 5/6 ch amp. The cost of the DC ref 6 ch is only slightly more than the BitOne so its a significant increase in cost to go with the BitOne and another amp but I like the features of the BitOne over the Zapco DSP. I'd rather tune with a graphic eq than a 10 band parametric per channel. Sometimes I just like it simple and that is the case here. Unfortunately, simple is more expensive.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

Good to hear that a lot of the issues were solved but sucks that it just can't handle the high level output. I wonder if they will ever fix that because that would involve a hardware upgrade not just a software tweak. I guess using the Audiocontrol is not such a bad solution since you already had it.

I'm still on the fence about the BitOne but its more of a cost issue than functional issue now. Do I go cheap and just get the Zapco DC reference amp with the processor built in or do I go with the BitOne and another 5/6 ch amp. The cost of the DC ref 6 ch is only slightly more than the BitOne so its a significant increase in cost to go with the BitOne and another amp but I like the features of the BitOne over the Zapco DSP. I'd rather tune with a graphic eq than a 10 band parametric per channel. Sometimes I just like it simple and that is the case here. Unfortunately, simple is more expensive.

The person at Audison that I'm dealing with seems very concerned about the inability of the bit one to handle this amount of input level, especially when I remarked that AudioControl has been handling 40V high level inputs without any sweat for years.

I mean, this is not 1989 that most of the OEM HUs did not have any OEM amp and the few that did did not exceed 100W overall.

I see your concern about parametric vs graphic EQ, however looking at the DSP6-SL specs (the DSP inside the DC amps) whatever is lacking to the bit one in adjustable EQ bands it made it up in other adjustments (slope and peak filters). So adjusted right you could have the same tuning results, although it seems to me as well that the DSP6-SL will be slightly harder than the bit one to tune by a consumer. That the DC650.6 is huge in size is another thing, so I don't know if you are willing to have that big amp visible/exposed in the trunk...

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Technic

That the DC650.6 is huge in size is another thing, so I don't know if you are willing to have that big amp visible/exposed in the trunk...

I actually already test fit it at my local dealer. It fits under the false floor with a little trimming of the styrofoam piece holding the air compressor. If I'm not going with the Zapco, I'm looking at an Audison LRx (either a 5.1k or 6.9), VRx 6.420 or a pair of Digital Designs amps. If I go with the DD, I'll probably end up putting the 4 ch under the false floor and the mono right above the OEM amp.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

I actually already test fit it at my local dealer. It fits under the false floor with a little trimming of the styrofoam piece holding the air compressor. If I'm not going with the Zapco, I'm looking at an Audison LRx (either a 5.1k or 6.9), VRx 6.420 or a pair of Digital Designs amps. If I go with the DD, I'll probably end up putting the 4 ch under the false floor and the mono right above the OEM amp.

I guess that it fits sideways, correct?

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Technic

I guess that it fits sideways, correct?

Yup. Just barely clears the sides. It has to be mounted with the logo upside down so the wire terminations face the front of the car though. Facing it the other way would require that the styrofoam be trimmed even more or maybe even just taken out to allow for more room for terminating the wires.

[ScotyH]

Technic, do you still have hiss using the LC6i & the BitOne?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by ScotyH

Technic, do you still have hiss using the LC6i & the BitOne?

The current hiss level -almost none- that I can detect now after the LC6i is about the same level as the OEM system without any aftermarket equipment installed.

You have to stick you ear to the tweeter grille to hear the hiss.

[Adonislike]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

I actually already test fit it at my local dealer. It fits under the false floor with a little trimming of the styrofoam piece holding the air compressor. If I'm not going with the Zapco, I'm looking at an Audison LRx (either a 5.1k or 6.9), VRx 6.420 or a pair of Digital Designs amps. If I go with the DD, I'll probably end up putting the 4 ch under the false floor and the mono right above the OEM amp.

I took the advice of Technic and got Audison amps over the Zapco. This is one of the best audio systems I have ever heard in a car and I have had car audio systems for over 15 years. I firmly believe it is primarily from the Audison Amps

Tech.....YOU ARE A GENIUS lol!!!

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Adonislike

I took the advice of Technic and got Audison amps over the Zapco. This is one of the best audio systems I have ever heard in a car and I have had car audio systems for over 15 years. I firmly believe it is primarily from the Audison Amps

Tech.....YOU ARE A GENIUS lol!!!

Which Audisons?

[Adonislike]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

Which Audisons?

Audison LRX 2.9, Audison LRX 6.9, and of course the BitOne. I did a TON of research on these before I purchased, but the LRX Series, many experts feel is under-priced for the performance. I was set to buy the Zapcos. But after talking with Technic on numerous occasions I went with the Audisons and I dont regret it OneBit... get it?? LOL

I know, badd joke

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Adonislike

Audison LRX 2.9, Audison LRX 6.9, and of course the BitOne.

Nice! I should have jumped on the 6.9 when I had the chance. I had second thoughts about it and let it slip by. Now I wish I got it. Its becoming harder to find a 5.1k at a decent price which is what I thought I would be passing up the 6.9 for. As far as the BitOne, I talked to my local dealer today who is just starting out as an Audison dealer. Didn't really care for him much so I might go with a dealer off island.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Adonislike

I took the advice of Technic and got Audison amps over the Zapco. This is one of the best audio systems I have ever heard in a car and I have had car audio systems for over 15 years. I firmly believe it is primarily from the Audison Amps

Tech.....YOU ARE A GENIUS lol!!!

Damn...

[SCtud]

I have the same problem - just not satisfied with the M3 Premium Sound. A little bit shocked that they can get away charging $1900 for this.

Has anyone tried just swapping out the subs with the SWS-8 and keeping the stock amp powering them? Trying to figure out what I can do to improve the sound without wasting any space by adding too many components in the trunk (since I have very little as is with the E93 convertible). Would like to add a very small amp in the trunk to jack up the SWS-8 more if possible, but fear that I'd then need to add the bit one (which apparently doesn't work for the premium sound based on this thread) or audio control which seems like I would need even more components?