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      12-02-2010, 04:12 AM   #221
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09 m3 1st to 2nd grind, please help

I purchased a 09 m3 coupe 6-speed with 15,300 miles last week without a test drive (shame on me). The car is an absolute dream to drive with one exception. When I shift from 1st to 2nd, even at very slow speeds such as 10-20mph I feel a grinding in the shifter. These are very VERY lazy shifts with seconds in between 1st and 2nd causing total loss of momentum. This happens maybe once out of every 3 or 4 shifts. If I rev match the shifting is smoother, Also If I push the shifter hard against the right side of the slot when going into second it is smoother, but will still grind often. I can feel the grind through the shifter. Clutch is pressed into the floor. Selecting 3,4,5 and 6 are all buttery smooth on EVERY shift with a silky notch when it drops in gear. I've been reading the comments here and it looks like there might be many others with issues like this. Does anyone have any advice on if this is normal and how I should approach a dealer about this issue? I am tempted to drain the trany fluid to look for metal filings. I hear brass means synchro and alum means gear wear. Has anyone been able to resolve this with a common resolution or do we all have different issues? With such a pure driving machine, I hate to say I am more than just a little dissapointed with the 1st to 2nd shift on this gearbox.
Thanks.

Last edited by TX; 12-02-2010 at 04:17 AM.. Reason: typo
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      12-02-2010, 04:36 AM   #222
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Mine never grind in any gear even when ice cold. Oh, I'm sorry, just realized that yours is not DCT.
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      12-02-2010, 12:26 PM   #223
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Mine is Fine! When my motor is cold i go easy on everything untill im at operating temperature ( i do notice my gearbox is notchy when cold)

Im doing alot of city driving and im constantly changing from 1st to second and not once has it crunched and ive done some pretty hard/fast changes.

I only get a little "crunch" going back into 1st while the car is rolling but if i blip the throttle it slides in without a prob.
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      12-03-2010, 02:29 AM   #224
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m3 6 speed grind 1st to 2nd

Andrew, thanks for the reply. It looks like I will be taking it in to a local dealer tomorrow or this weekend. I am worried they will tell me nothing is wrong and to go away. Sadly, it's not the dealer I purchased it from which is 200 miles away from where I live. Even sitting still with the clutch into the floor I can sit there and go back and forth from 1st to 2nd and have it grind. Sometimes it feels like the gears dont mesh at all and it wont go into second until I go back to first. After I do that about 10 times it will go smoothly every time, but it feels like by that point I have alligned the gears by sheer force. Forget about quick shifting from 1st to 2nd. I am talking about taking a full 2 or 3 second between each shift. 3,4,5 and 6 are smooth as cutting butter. if I blip the throttle it goes in smooth and double clutching helps. Also if I move the shifter over towards 5th and 6th while still in N with the clutch in then it will go down in 2nd smoothly. So it's clutch in, out of first, over to the right towards 5th and 6th and then back and down into second. It seems to go smoothly then. Essentially, this is just sliding the shifter side to side before selecting 2nd. This all seems to be too much effort for a $10,000+(guessing?) transmission.
Cheers,
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      12-03-2010, 10:26 AM   #225
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TX, the prior owner probably f**ked it up. Look around this forum and you'll see lots of idiots driving new M3s. I'd take it back to where I bought it, even if it's 200-miles. They should make it right. If it's out of warranty the local dealer won't cut you any slack. If it's in warranty, they might suspect abuse and be reluctant to repair under warranty. The dealer that sold it to you is the one that should make it right.

Meantime, learn to double=clutch, both up and down, so you don't damage the gears.

Dave
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      12-03-2010, 01:16 PM   #226
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Make sure you aren't holding the shifter too tight. Faster rpms first mean you have to grip harder.

Also remember to shift straight back in relation to the shifter and not at an angle towards your body.

Should help.
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      12-03-2010, 01:17 PM   #227
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Faster rpms does NOT mean hold tighter. Damn iPhone!


Quote:
Originally Posted by SIIK2NR View Post
Make sure you aren't holding the shifter too tight. Faster rpms first mean you have to grip harder.

Also remember to shift straight back in relation to the shifter and not at an angle towards your body.

Should help.
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      12-03-2010, 10:37 PM   #228
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Thanks for the replies

I purchased the car under warranty, with only 15,388 miles on it. I have 16,000 miles on it now so I would hope that the warranty still applies. I have been trying to baby it and even been skipping second to avoid the grind. Having said this, I am reading forums all over the place where other users mentioned a grind on their 6mt from 1st to 2nd and owners replied back that this is the normal feel for the 6mt, that they all grind into second. I am really tempted to pull the gear oil and filter it for filings to confirm what I think is going on inside the box.
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      12-03-2010, 10:45 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TX View Post
I purchased the car under warranty, with only 15,388 miles on it. I have 16,000 miles on it now so I would hope that the warranty still applies. I have been trying to baby it and even been skipping second to avoid the grind. Having said this, I am reading forums all over the place where other users mentioned a grind on their 6mt from 1st to 2nd and owners replied back that this is the normal feel for the 6mt, that they all grind into second. I am really tempted to pull the gear oil and filter it for filings to confirm what I think is going on inside the box.
I've heard that skipping gears while upshifting is very bad for the tranny. I don't have a grind but I do feel resistance in pulling from 1st to 2nd, kinda have to force it in and there's a clunk.
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      12-03-2010, 11:08 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TX View Post
I purchased the car under warranty, with only 15,388 miles on it. I have 16,000 miles on it now so I would hope that the warranty still applies. I have been trying to baby it and even been skipping second to avoid the grind. Having said this, I am reading forums all over the place where other users mentioned a grind on their 6mt from 1st to 2nd and owners replied back that this is the normal feel for the 6mt, that they all grind into second. I am really tempted to pull the gear oil and filter it for filings to confirm what I think is going on inside the box.
It's NOT normal. Get it fixed.
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      12-03-2010, 11:18 PM   #231
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On a side note

If I go to the dealer tomorrow I was thinking about trying to drive another 6speed m3 on their lot to compare it against. If they dont have any on their lot does the 335 - 6 speed have the same gearbox? Just something where I can get a similar comparision on shifts.
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      12-03-2010, 11:22 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jms_w View Post
I've heard that skipping gears while upshifting is very bad for the tranny. I don't have a grind but I do feel resistance in pulling from 1st to 2nd, kinda have to force it in and there's a clunk.
I have the clunk, but can you feel something sliding against the shifter through your finger tips during that clunk? to me it feels like opposing teeth sliding against something which I can feel in the shifter nob. The other gears have a nice soft clunk when they go into gear, but without the vibration/grind in the knob that I get on 2nd.
Thanks.
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      12-03-2010, 11:24 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jms_w View Post
I've heard that skipping gears while upshifting is very bad for the tranny. I don't have a grind but I do feel resistance in pulling from 1st to 2nd, kinda have to force it in and there's a clunk.
Where do these old wives tales come from? Skipping gears has no impact on the transmission when done properly. I've got over 1-million miles of skipping gears with no ill effects. Around town I do 1-3 pretty often when I'm in no hurry. Going the other way I might jump from 6th to 3d if I really need to hot-foot it.

Any resistance going from first to second in a healthy transmission is due to mismatch of engine and tranny speed. For instance, if you gently accelerate to 5000 rpm in first and then shift to second, the engine speed will need to drop to around 3000. There'll be resistance if you try to push it in at 4000 or wait until 2000 rpm.

If you go up to 2000 rpm and do the shift and wait a full second, that might cause resistance, but shouldn't result in a grind.

Dave
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      12-03-2010, 11:24 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TX View Post
When I shift from 1st to 2nd, even at very slow speeds such as 10-20mph I feel a grinding in the shifter. These are very VERY lazy shifts with seconds in between 1st and 2nd causing total loss of momentum.
Best shifting is done when rpm drop to the rpm of the next gear. Letting the engine drop to idle (happens very quickly on this car) is not the best for synchros either, but definitely way better than high rpm shifts.

But let's discuss the main issue. The 1-2 shift on this tranny is horrible. I don't abuse my car at all, and haven't tried to shift quickly at high rpm, but just can't find any combination where it feels smooth consistently. Mine doesn't grind, but it crunches into 2nd. It's hard to describe, but it's been the same since day 1, and I've also been driving manuals for 25+ years. All other shifts are butter smooth too.

I've been thinking about replacing tranny oil, but don't want to be the first. And nobody has done it, so will probably just change it with stock oil soon (only 6K miles here), but would love to put something else. Only problem is potential warranty issues.

What I've noticed is the slightest deviation from the gate results in the crunch I referred to. I say that because maybe one out of 50 shifts goes in like butter, but most others are notchy/crunchy/clunky, or a combination of those . And I shift with my fingers, not the whole hand. And have a ZHP knob, which helped a lot. And trying to engage 1st when cold at anything other than 0 mph forget it. When hot maybe 5 mph at most. On other cars switching to Redline oil made all the difference in the world, but that fluid seems to lose its magic very quickly. Maybe Royal Purple or Amsoil? But again, want to read at least one testimonial before doing anything. Anyway, I've tried pushing the lever to the left, right, and just can't find how to make it better. Sometimes it just happens that I clear the gate perfectly, and 2nd goes smoothly. This is not a big deal, but I'm also disappointed 2nd is not like all other gears. This tranny would be close to perfect if it did IMO. Funny thing is I never have a problem downshifting to 2nd from any other gear. IT's only the 1-2. Weird, huh? I'm going to scrutinize my shifting more carefully when I drive, and try to see if a change in technique yields better results. That's one of the things I like about manual cars; you can always try to be smoother. Have a great weekend gang.

Last edited by JCtx; 12-03-2010 at 11:31 PM..
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      12-03-2010, 11:35 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TX View Post
I have the clunk, but can you feel something sliding against the shifter through your finger tips during that clunk? to me it feels like opposing teeth sliding against something which I can feel in the shifter nob. The other gears have a nice soft clunk when they go into gear, but without the vibration/grind in the knob that I get on 2nd.
Thanks.
Not really. I normally take my hand off the shifter and back on the wheel. I have grinded a gear a little before but it's usually going from 4th to 5th because I've dropped the clutch before the gear was engaged.
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      12-03-2010, 11:38 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcstep View Post
Where do these old wives tales come from? Skipping gears has no impact on the transmission when done properly. I've got over 1-million miles of skipping gears with no ill effects. Around town I do 1-3 pretty often when I'm in no hurry. Going the other way I might jump from 6th to 3d if I really need to hot-foot it.

Any resistance going from first to second in a healthy transmission is due to mismatch of engine and tranny speed. For instance, if you gently accelerate to 5000 rpm in first and then shift to second, the engine speed will need to drop to around 3000. There'll be resistance if you try to push it in at 4000 or wait until 2000 rpm.

If you go up to 2000 rpm and do the shift and wait a full second, that might cause resistance, but shouldn't result in a grind.

Dave
Maybe the clunk is happening because I'm short-shifting? I'm shifting from 1st to 2nd between 2500-3000 rpm. Perhaps that's too low? But I don't want to draw alot of attention going up to 4k rpm just trying to keep up with traffic.
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      12-04-2010, 04:49 AM   #237
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Hm thats odd, my gears doesn't grind? .... oh wait, i got DCT!
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      12-06-2010, 11:25 PM   #238
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same thing happens to me, your clutch isnt pushed in all the way
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      12-07-2010, 12:24 AM   #239
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When you guys are shifting fairly fast, around what RPM do you drop to before the grind happens? My 1-2 has yet to grind on me, but I haven't really bothered shifting very fast. RPMs drop to around 5000-5500 rpms when I engage 2nd.
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      12-07-2010, 10:23 AM   #240
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Guys, replace the tranny oil with fresh fluid every 25k kms. The cost was 250 from the dealership. 2 weeks after driving the car with fresh fluid id say the car shifts 65% better. The difference was noticeable! Don't go to the full intervals that BMW recommends, just change out the fluid more often.

Definitely made me happy.
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      12-07-2010, 02:58 PM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by izzy View Post
Revs + low gear = high centifugal force
slamming the gearstick into second at 8000rpm in 1st means that the little magic bits in your box are spinning faster than at any time in any other gear. It has less to do with the power of the engine and more to do with the high revs.
Try this simple fix.
Insert clutch.
Say "one mississippi"
Change gear and release clutch.
Lose .01 of second on your race between the robots and make it home without tearing your gearbox in half.
+1 -- good advice
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      12-08-2010, 07:49 AM   #242
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Agree - first to second is never as smooth as it should be - gearbox could be better in that regard, but you learn to live with it pretty quickly.
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