My E90 M3 Dedicated Track build (with pix!)

[rhyary]

>> who cares about AIM G-forces anyway? Probably no one.

Wrong. I do.

But I am also care to read about your progress in a season long commitment and enjoy reading about it. Thanks for posting.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

you should bring a set of rain tires just in case it rains... if it rains and you're the only one with rain tires, you should be doin pretty good, no?

i wish i could have made it to more events this year... theres always next year.

You're so active in this community, this series could be right up your alley for hanging out with everyone in person. You just need to put it on the calendar at the beginning of the year and then it becomes part of your schedule.

I decided I wanted to do it this year, and then we moved out of state. That definitely added a degree of difficulty to the situation. Plus, having a busy family life with kids in 8th and 10th grade means there's always something going on around here. But, you figure it out. I am fortunate that my wife is supportive.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by rhyary

>> who cares about AIM G-forces anyway? Probably no one.

Wrong. I do.

But I am also care to read about your progress in a season long commitment and enjoy reading about it. Thanks for posting.

Of course, I was kidding. I love the technical stuff. And this sub-forum has been a great place to chat about it. But they posted the results on Friday so it was fun to go through it and write about it.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Of course, I was kidding. I love the technical stuff. And this sub-forum has been a great place to chat about it. But they posted the results on Friday so it was fun to go through it and write about it.

I was just learning this morning about G_sum math function.

Fascinating

[M3 Number 86]

I'm running b2 next year. Can't hang with b1 in a primarily street car with aero

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

I'm running b2 next year. Can't hang with b1 in a primarily street car with aero

Yeah, a street car in B1 will always have a tough time against highly prepped cars. No surprises there.

B2 ain't no walk in the park either. Charbel, Serhan and Elie have been pushing a quick tempo all year long in B2.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by dogbone

You're so active in this community, this series could be right up your alley for hanging out with everyone in person. You just need to put it on the calendar at the beginning of the year and then it becomes part of your schedule.

I decided I wanted to do it this year, and then we moved out of state. That definitely added a degree of difficulty to the situation. Plus, having a busy family life with kids in 8th and 10th grade means there's always something going on around here. But, you figure it out. I am fortunate that my wife is supportive.

i would really enjoy making it a point to go to every event. i enjoy the camaraderie of track events, and this is a really good one.
this year was just tough and it would have been foolish financially to try to fit in track days with my schedule and what we had going on.

another thing, besides becoming a faster driver, is i have to get the car competitive. i modded it the wrong way... all this crap on my car and no coilovers!
i'd be in b2 with oem suspension. lol

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Yeah, a street car in B1 will always have a tough time against highly prepped cars. No surprises there.

B2 ain't no walk in the park either. Charbel, Serhan and Elie have been pushing a quick tempo all year long in B2.

Still closer. Lol

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i would really enjoy making it a point to go to every event. i enjoy the camaraderie of track events, and this is a really good one.
this year was just tough and it would have been foolish financially to try to fit in track days with my schedule and what we had going on.

another thing, besides becoming a faster driver, is i have to get the car competitive. i modded it the wrong way... all this crap on my car and no coilovers!
i'd be in b2 with oem suspension. lol

I don't think you've modded it "wrong". I think you've been pretty clear along the way that the tweaky mods make you happy. You've always liked things that refine the car. If they make you happy, then they're not "wrong". However, if you said that all the mods you've done were done specifically to make the car fast on the track (which I don't think is the case)......well, then maybe some of them have been done out of order, and suspension should have been done sooner. So stop buying titanium bolts and save the $$$ for a suspension!!!

Have you done your homework on suspensions? Do you know what suspension you'd put on the car?

[roastbeef]

Definitely two ways. I was hoping for true real coilovers, but may settle for the traditional setup as a stepping stone.
I talked to Jordan Yost about Motons for quite a bit and that's the way I'm leaning. I'm not opposed to JRZ's, but I'm not going to really start grilling these companies for info and comparisons until it's time to pull the trigger- and that's mainly because these things are constantly being tweaked and improved.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

Definitely two ways. I was hoping for true real coilovers, but may settle for the traditional setup as a stepping stone.
I talked to Jordan Yost about Motons for quite a bit and that's the way I'm leaning. I'm not opposed to JRZ's, but I'm not going to really start grilling these companies for info and comparisons until it's time to pull the trigger- and that's mainly because these things are constantly being tweaked and improved.

I've got 2-way JRZs, and I've been satisfied with that choice.

I don't have coilovers in the rear. I'm sure rear coilovers are nice, but there's the constant debate over whether or not a reinforced top mount is necessary. On an E9x M3, people say they do it no problem without reinforcements, but I've heard that most older M3's needed it.

With JRZ (and many other brands), on a divorced setup, the rebound knob is conveniently placed at the top of the damper and you reach it inside the trunk. On a coilover (I can only speak of JRZ here), there is no convenient knob in the trunk; the rebound adjuster is buried inside the damper down near where the damper connects to the control arm. To change settings is a much bigger pain in the ass.

Also, I've always wondered if there's any concern with rim and tire width with rear coilovers. If you run fat rims and tires, the damper is fairly close. Is it a problem with the spring wrapping around the damper? I've never investigated it, but it's worth asking.

Anyway, the JRZ has been a nice addition to the car. I'm glad I bought RS Pro with remote reservoirs. They've been able to adapt to anything I've done to the car and they've been waiting around for me to improve as a driver! Some day maybe I'll do them justice!

[roastbeef]

yea, i might have to forego the true rear coils to just get them in there. if i was to do true rear coils, i would reinforce the top mounts anyways and brace it with the 1/2 cage.
i really like the m24 rear lower control arms for the true rear coilovers and would like to run something like that to reduce unsprung weight.
even if i got this setup tomorrow, it would be beyond my capabilities for many years to come, but i just dig it.

[jid2]

MCS 2 ways non remote have both compression and rebound made via the knob at the top of the damper which is very convenient. Been happy with MCS daily driving and tracking.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by jid2

MCS 2 ways non remote have both compression and rebound made via the knob at the top of the damper which is very convenient. Been happy with MCS daily driving and tracking.

What does MCS do with the controls if you do a true coilover in the rear?

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by dogbone

What does MCS do with the controls if you do a true coilover in the rear?

looks like compression is at the top of the reservoir, and rebound is at the tip of the shaft.

http://motioncontrolsuspension.com/buyers-guide/2-way/

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

looks like compression is at the top of the reservoir, and rebound is at the tip of the shaft.

No, that's a divorced setup. I looked it up. The true coilover on MCS would have the rebound adjuster in the same place as the JRZ.

Here's what it looks like. Note the location of the rebound adjuster.



I made a crude marker of where that would be when it was mounted. It's not exactly in the most convenient spot.



I'm not trying to talk you out of true rear coilover. I'm just pointing out the differences in daily use.

[roastbeef]

do you find yourself changing bound more often than rebound though? i sort of feel like that would be the case for some reason.

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by dogbone

What does MCS do with the controls if you do a true coilover in the rear?

They use the same damper for both set ups for 2W NR. Both adjustments are at the top. You just add a spring perch to the damper and move the spring for true coilover.

The picture you have is for the remote setup.

[Richbot]

My MCS 2 way remotes had the rebound adjuster at the top of the shock (at the upper mount)

It was a threaded shock body and could have been sued as a coilover just the same as divorced if I had been bored and dumb enough to want to do that

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

do you find yourself changing bound more often than rebound though? i sort of feel like that would be the case for some reason.

I found myself chasing rebound settings more than compression when I was altering settings between tracks.

When the car was stock weight and without aero, I had specific settings for each track. The settings weren't drastically different, but the car seemed to benefit from settings for each track. For example, a stiff setting that could work at a smooth track like Laguna Seca might not be ideal at Big Willow on Turn 8 where it's very wavy pavement at high speeds. I had a doc on my iPhone with all the settings. It was easy to change settings each AM before the event since all the adjuster knobs were right in front of you.

Once the car was lightened and had aero, those settings didn't really work anymore. It took a number of track days to sort out what felt good. By late-2015, I found settings that I liked. I was assuming that I would still change settings between tracks, but as I kept driving those settings, it felt good everywhere so I just left the setup alone.

In 2017, I was experimenting with stiffer springs. That forced me to find new settings again. Since I settled on 600/900 springs, and found settings that I liked, I haven't changed the settings since. (I do check them though, just to make sure they're in the right place. And I check the nitrogen pressures too.)

Sometimes I wonder if I'm being lazy by not changing settings at each track anymore, but the car feels good, so I just go with it.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

They use the same damper for both set ups for 2W NR. Both adjustments are at the top. You just add a spring perch to the damper and move the spring for true coilover.

The picture you have is for the remote setup.

Originally Posted by Richbot

My MCS 2 way remotes had the rebound adjuster at the top of the shock (at the upper mount)

It was a threaded shock body and could have been sued as a coilover just the same as divorced if I had been bored and dumb enough to want to do that

Ah, so the MCS picture I posted is only good for the 3-way? This is not confusing at all!

In 2012, JRZ mistakenly sent me coilovers for the rear. They had this big beefy mounting setup at the top. There was no rebound adjuster going through it. The rebound adjuster was in the spot where the MCS 3-way is.

Anyway, if you can get a 2-way true rear coilover with remote canister with the rebound adjuster at the top/in the trunk, then you've got the best of all the worlds---performance and convenience! (but it won't be cheap)

[roastbeef]

that would be pretty sweet if it was all in the trunk. one of the things i'm curious about is how compressible the nitrogen is in this application. i think it would be really cool to have the reservoirs extend into an area like the passenger footwell hugging the center console... and the rears somewhere around the rear climate controls. being able to adjust even one setting "on the fly" would be cool (although you wouldn't actively do this while driving). i don't know if this is viable or not.
i would wonder about noise... do these reservoirs make noise as the fluid pushes through the valves?