Metal flakes in the filter

Scharbag · 07-09-2018, 07:49 AM

Early 2011 cars have lead/copper bearings.

If you are on original rod bearings, I would change them ASAP.

The flakes may be from the inside of the magnesium valve covers as that is a common thing in the S65 from what I have read.

Magnetic particles scare me as there is very little magnetic material in the S65 and it all lives in pretty critical parts like the crank, bearing shell backing, rods, cams, timing chain etc. All things you do not want to be losing pieces.

Cheers,

1MOREMOD · 07-09-2018, 07:57 AM

How would rod bearing material end up in the intake? Is the material inside the filter or outside like was inhaled in towards normal flow of air?

BayE30 · 07-09-2018, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

How would rod bearing material end up in the intake? Is the material inside the filter or outside like was inhaled in towards normal flow of air?

those pics are of the oil filter....

1MOREMOD · 07-09-2018, 09:57 AM

Yes so the rod bearing pieces went backwards in the engine against natural flow of air thru the intake and to the outside of the air filter? Would require backfire as well as putting holes in the filter element to get from inside it to outside surface of it? Air filter is designed to stop external contaminants from getting into the Intake by having to pass thru it to get to the internal combustion portion of the engine. Is your theory he blew his rod bearing out the oil pan then they flew up thru the front of the car got sucked into the intake and lodged into the air filter?

bgp001 · 07-09-2018, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Yes so the rod bearing pieces went backwards in the engine against natural flow of air thru the intake and to the outside of the air filter? Would require backfire as well as putting holes in the filter element to get from inside it to outside surface of it? Air filter is designed to stop external contaminants from getting into the Intake by having to pass thru it to get to the internal combustion portion of the engine. Is your theory he blew his rod bearing out the oil pan then they flew up thru the front of the car got sucked into the intake and lodged into the air filter?

The pictures are of an oil filter as in motor oil filter

Bartledoo · 07-09-2018, 10:24 AM

bgp001 · 07-09-2018, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

If they are all magnetic, then the chunks must be from something else though (I'm assuming the steel backing of the bearing can't be exposed or chipped away without preventing engine running).

That's exactly why I'm concerned. Tin-aluminium bearings shouldn't be magnetic. Both metals are paramagnetic, so I have to wonder if the composition of the 702/703 bearing shells contain anything magnetic...

1MOREMOD · 07-09-2018, 10:33 AM

My bad I'm an idiot. Too much booze this weekend I guess, thought I saw air filter in title.

msan · 07-09-2018, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Yes so the rod bearing pieces went backwards in the engine against natural flow of air thru the intake and to the outside of the air filter? Would require backfire as well as putting holes in the filter element to get from inside it to outside surface of it? Air filter is designed to stop external contaminants from getting into the Intake by having to pass thru it to get to the internal combustion portion of the engine. Is your theory he blew his rod bearing out the oil pan then they flew up thru the front of the car got sucked into the intake and lodged into the air filter?

bgp001 · 07-09-2018, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Yes so the rod bearing pieces went backwards in the engine against natural flow of air thru the intake and to the outside of the air filter? Would require backfire as well as putting holes in the filter element to get from inside it to outside surface of it? Air filter is designed to stop external contaminants from getting into the Intake by having to pass thru it to get to the internal combustion portion of the engine. Is your theory he blew his rod bearing out the oil pan then they flew up thru the front of the car got sucked into the intake and lodged into the air filter?

Now that's a plot for The Great S65 Escape!

They're rogue, they're determined, they will do anything to break free.
The RB team!

1MOREMOD · 07-09-2018, 11:29 AM

Didnt read anything but the title drunk apparently

NoHedge · 07-09-2018, 12:02 PM

I also found identical flakes in my oil filter over the past 2 oil changes - original thread https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1432552

Pics from recent oil change -

View post on imgur.com

I'm convinced that the copper/mustard pieces are from the valve covers, not all of the flakes were ferrous but I did find 3-4 pieces that were (last pic). I'm due for an oil change so curious to see what we find.

All blackstone reports came back clean and engine feels healthy otherwise. 93k on her currently.

///M Power-Belgium · 07-09-2018, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgp001

That's exactly why I'm concerned. Tin-aluminium bearings shouldn't be magnetic. Both metals are paramagnetic, so I have to wonder if the composition of the 702/703 bearing shells contain anything magnetic...

Oil filter from a S65 while it had rod knock (pic. # 1 and 2)

Last picture shows inside the paint flakes from valve covers .

bgp001 · 07-09-2018, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoHedge

I also found identical flakes in my oil filter over the past 2 oil changes - original thread https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1432552

Pics from recent oil change -

View post on imgur.com

I'm convinced that the copper/mustard pieces are from the valve covers, not all of the flakes were ferrous but I did find 3-4 pieces that were (last pic). I'm due for an oil change so curious to see what we find.

All blackstone reports came back clean and engine feels healthy otherwise. 93k on her currently.

Thanks, NoHedge. Looks pretty much like mine. I guess you decided to take a passive approach?

bgp001 · 07-09-2018, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Oil filter from a S65 while it had rod knock (pic. # 1 and 2)

Last picture shows inside the paint flakes from valve covers .

That looks a lot worse! Is it from Duk996 car?

I didn't notice anything copper-like in my filter

///M Power-Belgium · 07-09-2018, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgp001

That looks a lot worse! Is it from Duk996 car?

I didn't notice anything copper-like in my filter

Yes . But he got rod knock and that's S65 RIP .

NoHedge · 07-11-2018, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgp001

Thanks, NoHedge. Looks pretty much like mine. I guess you decided to take a passive approach?

I've got the p-car itch so I'm rolling the dice for now.. I would definitely take care of the rbs if you plan on keeping her.

Did a ton of research on this and couldn't find anything concrete. Keep me posted on this!

Mvy · 07-11-2018, 06:50 PM

My valve cover looks just like the pic. Im taking the passive approach for now since I just started to get the valve cover gasket leak. Will prob replace once I have a maint. moment that removes the SC.

bgp001 · 07-31-2018, 11:11 AM

The oil report results are in. As I expected, nothing specific that can be used to analyze this issue.
Having no history of oil analysis doesn't help the case...

Going to replace the bearings anyways. Waiting to see if BE bearings can be obtained in the next couple of weeks and if not, going with VAC.

Thanks everyone for the insights. I'll try to keep updating this thread as things progress.

Solo_M_Tech · 08-01-2018, 08:16 AM

Oil reports are basically useless for engines that have the newer bearings. THey are only useful if you have the tri-metal bearings.

You dodged a bullet. Tow, don't drive your car to a reputable repair facility, and get the bearings replaced without starting it. The magnetic pieces could be part of the bearings backing plate, which is steel, which is just bad news bears for the engine.

Fingers crossed for good luck.

bgp001 · 09-27-2018, 04:07 PM

Sorry for the long delay, guys. Here's my update:

Bearings have been swapped with the VAC/ARP combo. Let's not get into VAC/BE debate, please. My reasons for VAC were availability and shop preference/warranty. It's done now.

I'm just about to do a first oil change after the swap

Here's some pictures. I'll try to take better ones once I have more time.

Bearings (~38K miles):

I noticed quite a bit of wear on the back side edges of bearings. This is definitely a source of magnetic metal specs:

There was also some wear on bearing side edges (better picture to follow):

And the gem - motor mounts:

MPower7 · 09-27-2018, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgp001

Sorry for the long delay, guys. Here's my update:

Bearings have been swapped with the VAC/ARP combo. Let's not get into VAC/BE debate, please. My reasons for VAC were availability and shop preference/warranty. It's done now.

I'm just about to do a first oil change after the swap

Here's some pictures. I'll try to take better ones once I have more time.

Bearings (~38K miles):

I noticed quite a bit of wear on the back side edges of bearings. This is definitely a source of magnetic metal specs:

There was also some wear on bearing side edges (better picture to follow):

And the gem - motor mounts:

Scary stuff.

07-09-2018, 07:49 AM	#23
Scharbag Colonel 2621 Rep 2,138 Posts Drives: 2011 E92 M3 Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Victoria iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW E92 M3 [0.00]	Early 2011 cars have lead/copper bearings. If you are on original rod bearings, I would change them ASAP. The flakes may be from the inside of the magnesium valve covers as that is a common thing in the S65 from what I have read. Magnetic particles scare me as there is very little magnetic material in the S65 and it all lives in pretty critical parts like the crank, bearing shell backing, rods, cams, timing chain etc. All things you do not want to be losing pieces. Cheers,
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07-09-2018, 07:57 AM	#24
1MOREMOD - 11817 Rep 23,187 Posts Drives: Race car-> Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: check your mirrors iTrader: (5)	How would rod bearing material end up in the intake? Is the material inside the filter or outside like was inhaled in towards normal flow of air?
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07-09-2018, 09:57 AM	#26
1MOREMOD - 11817 Rep 23,187 Posts Drives: Race car-> Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: check your mirrors iTrader: (5)	Yes so the rod bearing pieces went backwards in the engine against natural flow of air thru the intake and to the outside of the air filter? Would require backfire as well as putting holes in the filter element to get from inside it to outside surface of it? Air filter is designed to stop external contaminants from getting into the Intake by having to pass thru it to get to the internal combustion portion of the engine. Is your theory he blew his rod bearing out the oil pan then they flew up thru the front of the car got sucked into the intake and lodged into the air filter? Last edited by 1MOREMOD; 07-09-2018 at 10:02 AM..
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07-09-2018, 10:24 AM	#28
Bartledoo Driver 2692 Rep 2,714 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 M3 6MT Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2023 Corvette Stingray [0.00] 2002 Porsche Boxster [0.00] 2011 E90 M3 [0.00] 2021 Tesla Model Y [0.00]
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07-09-2018, 10:33 AM	#30
1MOREMOD - 11817 Rep 23,187 Posts Drives: Race car-> Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: check your mirrors iTrader: (5)	My bad I'm an idiot. Too much booze this weekend I guess, thought I saw air filter in title.
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07-09-2018, 11:29 AM	#33
1MOREMOD - 11817 Rep 23,187 Posts Drives: Race car-> Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: check your mirrors iTrader: (5)	Didnt read anything but the title drunk apparently
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07-09-2018, 12:02 PM	#34
NoHedge Private First Class 68 Rep 192 Posts Drives: E92 M3 \| 991.1 C2S Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: New York iTrader: (0)	I also found identical flakes in my oil filter over the past 2 oil changes - original thread https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1432552 Pics from recent oil change - View post on imgur.com I'm convinced that the copper/mustard pieces are from the valve covers, not all of the flakes were ferrous but I did find 3-4 pieces that were (last pic). I'm due for an oil change so curious to see what we find. All blackstone reports came back clean and engine feels healthy otherwise. 93k on her currently.
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07-11-2018, 06:50 PM	#40
Mvy Captain 541 Rep 979 Posts Drives: 2008 E93 M3 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: GA Peach iTrader: (0)	My valve cover looks just like the pic. Im taking the passive approach for now since I just started to get the valve cover gasket leak. Will prob replace once I have a maint. moment that removes the SC. __________________ Harrop Supercharger, BPM Tune, K/W Coil over kit, Stoptek BBK, Magnaflow exhaust, ear to ear grin everytime I drive...
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07-31-2018, 11:11 AM	#41
bgp001 New Member 13 Rep 24 Posts Drives: E90 Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: wherever iTrader: (0)	Oil report The oil report results are in. As I expected, nothing specific that can be used to analyze this issue. Having no history of oil analysis doesn't help the case... Going to replace the bearings anyways. Waiting to see if BE bearings can be obtained in the next couple of weeks and if not, going with VAC. Thanks everyone for the insights. I'll try to keep updating this thread as things progress.
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08-01-2018, 08:16 AM	#42
Solo_M_Tech Brigadier General 1688 Rep 3,140 Posts Drives: 2014 M5 6MT Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Massachusetts iTrader: (7) Garage List 2014 BMW M5 [0.00]	Oil reports are basically useless for engines that have the newer bearings. THey are only useful if you have the tri-metal bearings. You dodged a bullet. Tow, don't drive your car to a reputable repair facility, and get the bearings replaced without starting it. The magnetic pieces could be part of the bearings backing plate, which is steel, which is just bad news bears for the engine. Fingers crossed for good luck. __________________ 2014 M5 6MT
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09-27-2018, 04:07 PM	#43
bgp001 New Member 13 Rep 24 Posts Drives: E90 Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: wherever iTrader: (0)	Update Sorry for the long delay, guys. Here's my update: Bearings have been swapped with the VAC/ARP combo. Let's not get into VAC/BE debate, please. My reasons for VAC were availability and shop preference/warranty. It's done now. I'm just about to do a first oil change after the swap Here's some pictures. I'll try to take better ones once I have more time. Bearings (~38K miles): I noticed quite a bit of wear on the back side edges of bearings. This is definitely a source of magnetic metal specs: There was also some wear on bearing side edges (better picture to follow): And the gem - motor mounts:
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