Rotors for Occasional Track Use

[Ximian]

3-4 events per year is enough to potentially justify a BBK. I'm at about that many events or fewer and I needed an upgrade to a BBK.

What I was experiencing was inconsistent braking performance with PFC pads and fresh Motul RBF 660 fluid. It wasn't any one part overheating, just the whole system not being able to handle it. The result was increasing braking distance with each passing lap.

This also raised a safety concern because once or twice, I didn't brake soon enough. While I only had very late apex, it could have been much worse if it was part of the track with closer barriers.

I upgraded to an ST60 kit for the front and kept the stock rear rotor and caliper. No issues so far and I have plenty of confidence going late into a heavy braking zone late a session. It's more expensive than trying to bankrupt FCP Euro on warranty returns, but overall a more enjoyable experience when at the track.

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by former 240 s14

This is what I saw when I ordered:

"Ready for a re-ring? ECS offers discounts on pairs of replacement rotors to the original customer or customers showing proof of ownership. Please contact the Sales Department for additional information."

And this is what I got when I asked them about it:

"Hello,
Thank you for your email. We no longer sell re ring kits for the 2 piece rotors. I can sell a replacement set at $699.00. Please contact me to place your order."

But that was in 2018, so things may have changed.

[nsogiba]

Just a quick bump as my front OEM rotors are done after a couple recent events at TMP and WGI.

I am on the fence between the FCP lifetime deal and the cheap blanks on rockauto (which aren't that cheap anymore). Leaning towards FCP since the cheap Bendix's are almost $400 shipped for the whole car and will probably wear more quickly than the OEM stuff due to worse heat dissipation.

Some of my rotor issues are due to lack of cooling which I am remedying separately. I only do about 3-4 events a year so it doesn't make sense for me to spring for a spendy BBK.

Thoughts?

[Z K]

You can do the freaky brakes Brembo caliper upgrade as I mentioned in another thread. Paired with OEM rotors, it adds significant cooling ability. At under $1k, it is a good budget upgrade.

[nsogiba]

Originally Posted by Z K

You can do the freaky brakes Brembo caliper upgrade as I mentioned in another thread. Paired with OEM rotors, it adds significant cooling ability. At under $1k, it is a good budget upgrade.

Can I ask how a caliper upgrade adds cooling? All of the cooling is done by the rotor which isn't changing.

[atopa2002]

Originally Posted by nsogiba

Can I ask how a caliper upgrade adds cooling? All of the cooling is done by the rotor which isn't changing.

Heat capacity is your friend too, my friend. max 20-30min for a HPED section the brembos and stock rotors can take it all . You can also upgrade to tge f80 rotors

[Bartledoo]

Girodisc rotors with oem calipers is a better upgrade.

[IamFODI]

Originally Posted by nsogiba

Can I ask how a caliper upgrade adds cooling? All of the cooling is done by the rotor which isn't changing.

Originally Posted by nsogiba

Can I ask how a caliper upgrade adds cooling? All of the cooling is done by the rotor which isn't changing.

The rotor does most of it for sure, but not all of it. Some heat rejection is done through the caliper. Pads get hot, too, and some of that heat ends up in the caliper. Bigger caliper means more mass to absorb heat (less temp variation in the pads) and/or more surface area to reject heat.

AFAIK, heat capacity/rejection is the main reason optional carbon ceramic brakes often have bigger calipers than non-ceramics; the rotor doesn't absorb as much heat as a metal one would, so the caliper has to pick up some of the slack. It's also why brake fluid heat tolerance matters; if all the heat rejection were done by the rotor, it's hard to imagine why anyone would need more than DOT3.

Can't imagine swapping in bigger calipers on the same brakes would be a game changer heat-wise, but it ought to help a little.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by nsogiba

Can I ask how a caliper upgrade adds cooling? All of the cooling is done by the rotor which isn't changing.

As others have said, heat is dissipated by the caliper as well. Pads get hot which transfer to the pistons and into the caliper body. Pads and brake fluid overheat which causes brake pad deposits, warp rotors and brake fade on track. The caliper acts as a giant heatsink. That is why a lot of high performance brake calipers are so big while the actual pads and pistons are not as big.

The stock rotors last for years of track use with proper pads and cooling. I only need to replace them once every dozen track days or so even with stock calipers. I don't know what you're doing to fry rotors as much as you are.

[nsogiba]

Originally Posted by Z K

As others have said, heat is dissipated by the caliper as well. Pads get hot which transfer to the pistons and into the caliper body. Pads and brake fluid overheat which causes brake pad deposits, warp rotors and brake fade on track. The caliper acts as a giant heatsink. That is why a lot of high performance brake calipers are so big while the actual pads and pistons are not as big.

The stock rotors last for years of track use with proper pads and cooling. I only need to replace them once every dozen track days or so even with stock calipers. I don't know what you're doing to fry rotors as much as you are.

I guess my original was statement was a bit wrongly worded, anything touching the pad/rotor interface will ultimately help reject heat (caliper, knuckle, etc), so I follow the team there.

I think a combination of very high rotor temps due to a lack of airflow (no ducting) and long straights (140+mph on back straight at WGI) contributes to degradation of pad and rotor.

My next iteration of the setup is going to be dedicated 2.5" silicone ducts plumbed directly to the dust shield, fresh OEM rotors (aluminum hat), and Hawk DTC 70 pads. I would have bought the DTC 60s via FCP but they seem to be on backorder.

[Z K]

Not a big fan of DTC pads as the dust they produce is corrosive. It will eat into your wheels and paint and can not be removed if it gets wet. It is not as bad if you wash the car immediately after driving but will still cause damage if you let it sit. But if this is a track only car, you may not care.