Track forum general chit chat.

[Sanchez14]

I think you’re right. I should just go with something aggressive that’s more track focused. Thanks for the recommendations and insight. Headed to Chuckwalla in a couple weeks, so will get a chance to try it out soon.

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

max possible caster, max possible camber.. especially if you plan on using a super 200tw -3.3 is like bare minimum... so you'll need to either say fck it and run it or figure out a different tire.

my alignment.

Camber: -3.3F -2.5R (i need fix my camber plates i stripped a bolt or something... other wise id be around -3.6F)
Caster: 7.2
Toe Front: 0 (might do little toe in eventually)
Toe Rear: +.17 degree total toe

again these are for my driving! will vary from person to person, but we're all fairly close to the same..

[1FastSicilian]

what setting are you guys running on your front sway bar? I just installed the hotchkis and My SPL endlinks only reached the very last position, then snapped lol so had to order shorter links.

I've been reading and saw that the the middle (or 2nd hole out of 4) is what people run on that bar.

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by 1FastSicilian

what setting are you guys running on your front sway bar? I just installed the hotchkis and My SPL endlinks only reached the very last position, then snapped lol so had to order shorter links.

I've been reading and saw that the the middle (or 2nd hole out of 4) is what people run on that bar.

I'm running it on setting #3 (#4 being stiffest), I started on setting #2 but it didn't feel much different vs stock. Would love to know the torsion delta between each setting vs stock.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by Sanchez14

I think you’re right. I should just go with something aggressive that’s more track focused. Thanks for the recommendations and insight. Headed to Chuckwalla in a couple weeks, so will get a chance to try it out soon.

just mark your camber for -2.5 street and -3.5 race and just adjust when needed, but it's pretty inconvenient if you forget to do it the day before.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by 1FastSicilian

what setting are you guys running on your front sway bar? I just installed the hotchkis and My SPL endlinks only reached the very last position, then snapped lol so had to order shorter links.

I've been reading and saw that the the middle (or 2nd hole out of 4) is what people run on that bar.

I was running full soft front and rear, with 628lb/in front and 1120lb/in rear rates. Balance was good.

[1FastSicilian]

Originally Posted by spxxx

I'm running it on setting #3 (#4 being stiffest), I started on setting #2 but it didn't feel much different vs stock. Would love to know the torsion delta between each setting vs stock.

Thanks for the info,

This is what I found on their website about the settings.

Front 4 way adjustable- 295 lbs/in, 335 lbs/in, 380 lbs/in, 435 lbs/in

[Tommysalami]

Originally Posted by 1FastSicilian

what setting are you guys running on your front sway bar? I just installed the hotchkis and My SPL endlinks only reached the very last position, then snapped lol so had to order shorter links.

I've been reading and saw that the the middle (or 2nd hole out of 4) is what people run on that bar.

I'm on 2nd softest setting but the real answer is it depends mostly on the difference in front/rear spring rate, whether you're running staggered or square tire setup, and whether you are using the stock rear bar. For example the Ohlins RT have front springs that are much stiffer than stock but the rear springs are barely stiffer, so you'd probably expect a softer front bar setting to maintain the same balance.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

I'm on 2nd softest setting but the real answer is it depends mostly on the difference in front/rear spring rate, whether you're running staggered or square tire setup, and whether you are using the stock rear bar. For example the Ohlins RT have front springs that are much stiffer than stock but the rear springs are barely stiffer, so you'd probably expect a softer front bar setting to maintain the same balance.

Yup…funny I just assume everybody serious is running square at this point (on this chassis). I forget some people actually run staggered setups.

[1FastSicilian]

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

I'm on 2nd softest setting but the real answer is it depends mostly on the difference in front/rear spring rate, whether you're running staggered or square tire setup, and whether you are using the stock rear bar. For example the Ohlins RT have front springs that are much stiffer than stock but the rear springs are barely stiffer, so you'd probably expect a softer front bar setting to maintain the same balance.

I agree with what you're saying.. many variables here.. I'm on Ohlins dedicated track with the standard swift springs they come with. I also run 18x10 sq with falken rt600.

I believe their rates are 600/1000... I may be wrong though, I forget honestly.

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Yup…funny I just assume everybody serious is running square at this point (on this chassis). I forget some people actually run staggered setups.

Same here lol

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Yup…funny I just assume everybody serious is running square at this point (on this chassis). I forget some people actually run staggered setups.

Haha same here, for reference, I'm on 285/30 square with stock rear bar & 625/900# rates. Might bump back down to setting 2.

At this point, there aren't many of us E9x'ers pushing the limits of the chassis so it seems hard to find ideal settings for "niche" parts like this. Feel like sway bars often come down to driving style and feel too.

[Tommysalami]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Yup…funny I just assume everybody serious is running square at this point (on this chassis). I forget some people actually run staggered setups.

Same, I just mention it since I think the OEM spring/sway bar balance is meant more toward the staggered setup.

Originally Posted by 1FastSicilian

I agree with what you're saying.. many variables here.. I'm on Ohlins dedicated track with the standard swift springs they come with. I also run 18x10 sq with falken rt600.

I believe their rates are 600/1000... I may be wrong though, I forget honestly.

Seems like that's biased slightly stiffer in the front relative to the road and track spring setup. I don't think you can go wrong between any of the settings though, probably just personal preference like you said. According to bimmerworld, even the softest setting is still 50% stiffer than stock:

Front 4 way adjustable- 295 lbs/in, 335 lbs/in, 380 lbs/in, 435 lbs/in
Stiffness over stock: +52%, +73%, +96%, +124%

Rear 3 way adjustable - 175 lbs/in, 195 lbs/in, 215 lbs/in
Stiffness over stock: +56%, +74%, +92%


Also I notice a lot of people are scared to do things like min/max their sway bar or shock settings, as if the car is gonna explode if you make more than one click. You gotta try big changes to see what works!

[tsk94]

I ran the Hotchkis bars on the 2nd and 3rd hole most of the time (changed it often), and the rear almost always on the middle hole.

Originally Posted by spxxx

I'm running it on setting #3 (#4 being stiffest), I started on setting #2 but it didn't feel much different vs stock. Would love to know the torsion delta between each setting vs stock.

[1FastSicilian]

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

Same, I just mention it since I think the OEM spring/sway bar balance is meant more toward the staggered setup.



Seems like that's biased slightly stiffer in the front relative to the road and track spring setup. I don't think you can go wrong between any of the settings though, probably just personal preference like you said. According to bimmerworld, even the softest setting is still 50% stiffer than stock:

Front 4 way adjustable- 295 lbs/in, 335 lbs/in, 380 lbs/in, 435 lbs/in
Stiffness over stock: +52%, +73%, +96%, +124%

Rear 3 way adjustable - 175 lbs/in, 195 lbs/in, 215 lbs/in
Stiffness over stock: +56%, +74%, +92%


Also I notice a lot of people are scared to do things like min/max their sway bar or shock settings, as if the car is gonna explode if you make more than one click. You gotta try big changes to see what works!

Yessir! That's how I figured out my Ohlins.. started on full soft and adjusted from there to where I felt the car handled and drove well. I forget where I'm at now as that was over a year ago..

[Tommysalami]

Originally Posted by 1FastSicilian

Yessir! That's how I figured out my Ohlins.. started on full soft and adjusted from there to where I felt the car handled and drove well. I forget where I'm at now as that was over a year ago..

I keep a google sheet and use my phone to make notes for each session. Date, location, temperature, conditions, tire pressures f/r, shock settings f/r, number of laps or session length, best laptime, and notes. Got a separate sheet for shock settings, noting how setup changes felt.

[Bimmer Barney]

Originally Posted by spxxx

Finally got the Race Louvers installed, I was hoping to go with paint matched vented fenders but $300 vs $2k was an easy decision. Might paint match them in the future but for now I'll deal with the absurd 5 front vent look. (Yes, I need to clean my disaster if a garage).

Excited to run Buttonwillow again this Friday after my oil pan incident, really hope my balls have grown back. I'm also excited to run 285/30 back to back vs 275/35 (both RE71RS) - the lower tread depth of the 285's will probably give them the grip advantage but we'll see! I'm tired of bending wheels and the short 285/30 puts my car with a 3.45 F/D at redline right before several braking zones which isn't ideal.

Car looks great! How good is the BW splitter? My GT4 rep needs replacing after only a year of driveway and road scraping and track days. Does it look like it will be substantially better at weathering abuse than the much cheaper POM options? It looks awesome but it ain’t inexpensive.

[derbo]

Originally Posted by 1FastSicilian

I agree with what you're saying.. many variables here.. I'm on Ohlins dedicated track with the standard swift springs they come with. I also run 18x10 sq with falken rt600.

I believe their rates are 600/1000... I may be wrong though, I forget honestly.



Same here lol

685/1000, very similar to the 700/1000 on this forum.

[rhyary]

One of the reasons to watch F1 Qualifying is many in-car footages. Many times the throttle and brake info is provided in the videos.

An interesting thing to notice is that brake usage seems to be varied from corner to corner and from driver to driver. sometimes the brake action extends into the corner, some times it is done before the corner. We don’t know how the brake info is comminicated to us, and there is no audio confirmation on what exaclty the driver is doing. So we don’t know if the video shows us peek brake but is off while the driver still trail braking. Nevertheless, it is good to notice what they do in the big picture.

Not the same with the throttle. We can hear the motor and we can see on the video when they go to half throttle or full throttle. The difference from the brake information is that all drivers in all corners are consistently doing the same. They all apply throttle after the apex, or in the rare occation that they apply throttle before the apex or when they want to push the car wide while either keeping steering angle the same (rare) or opening the steering because more like a shallow kink vs a true coner.

Why am I bringing this topic again, well first because it is winter and I am not driving, second because when I analyze data (including my own) “adding throttle before the apex” is the most obvious “style” I see in HPDE.

The E92 M3 CAN bus gives all the essential data to help you be a better driver. If you don’t already have an AIM Solo2 DL or a higher model, connected to the CAN bus, I recommend spending the $1000 on that, and buy a $135/tire on sale at TR to pay for the data logger.

This season, I hope you all made a newyear resolution which is to not adding throttle before getting to the apex or even beyond. Work on entry speed instead.

bigjae1976
Before you are saying I am wrong, which is always possible, try to say somthing different. jk.
Couldn’t resist.
Shoot me.
No please don’t.
These days someone can take this literally.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by rhyary

One of the reasons to watch F1 Qualifying is many in-car footages. Many times the throttle and brake info is provided in the videos.

An interesting thing to notice is that brake usage seems to be varied from corner to corner and from driver to drive. sometimes the brake action extends into the corner, some times is is done before the corner. We don’t know how the brake info is comminicated to us, and there is no audio confirmation on what exaclty the driver is doing. So we don’t know if the video shows us peek brake but is off while the driver still trail braking. Nevertheless, it is good to notice what they do in the big picture.

Not the same with the throttle. We can hear the motor and we can see on the video when they go to half throttle or full throttle. The difference from the brake information is that all drivers in all corner are consitantly doing the same. They all apply throttle after the apex, or in the rare occation that they apply throttle before the apex or when they want to push the car wide while either keeping steering angle the same (rare) or opening the steering because more like a shallow kink vs a true coner.

Why am I bringing this topic again, well first because it is winter and I am not driving, second because when I analyze data (including my own) “adding throttle before the apex” is the most obvious “style” I see in HPDE.

The E92 M3 CAN bus gives all the essential data to help you be a better driver. If you don’t already have an AIM Solo2 DL or a higher model, connected to the CAN bus, I recommended spending the $1000 on that, and buy [...]

🤣…I mostly agree with what you said. It is the internet so I know I’m often guilty of not fully explaining myself to keep things somewhat brief. Not a problem for you…haha. And maybe I didn’t mention it but it all depends. As you observed F1 qualy they use different techniques.

In the end, I advise drivers that they should strive to learn different techniques and figure out what works. Each of us can look at the same turn and each of our optimal technique and line may be different.

Most of all, learn to drive different lines through a turn. Before we get to that point there is a lot of track time, learning and practice to build the consistency to validate that the data accuracy and you’re not analyzing an outlier.

[slcook54]

I’m also on Ohlins dedicated track from 3DM (685/1000). Full bimmerworld aero. Car is exhibiting a lot of mid corner understeer. Dampers set 6 clicks from full stiff. I think I’m going to stiffen the rear bar, it’s currently on the middle setting and contemplating moving to a slightly softer front spring.

[1FastSicilian]

Originally Posted by slcook54

I’m also on Ohlins dedicated track from 3DM (685/1000). Full bimmerworld aero. Car is exhibiting a lot of mid corner understeer. Dampers set 6 clicks from full stiff. I think I’m going to stiffen the rear bar, it’s currently on the middle setting and contemplating moving to a slightly softer front spring.

I'm on the same suspension and I'm 6 from full stiff in the front and 8 from full stiff in the rear but on OEM rear sway. I haven't noticed any mid corner understeer.,

I do feel the rear of the car feel a little unsettling sometimes and I think I have to the subframe mounts and other bushings back there soon. I'll report back after my next track day in several weeks.

[slcook54]

Originally Posted by 1FastSicilian

I'm on the same suspension and I'm 6 from full stiff in the front and 8 from full stiff in the rear but on OEM rear sway. I haven't noticed any mid corner understeer.,

I do feel the rear of the car feel a little unsettling sometimes and I think I have to the subframe mounts and other bushings back there soon. I'll report back after my next track day in several weeks.

What aero are you on? Pretty sure this has at least something to do with it. 😀

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by slcook54

I’m also on Ohlins dedicated track from 3DM (685/1000). Full bimmerworld aero. Car is exhibiting a lot of mid corner understeer. Dampers set 6 clicks from full stiff. I think I’m going to stiffen the rear bar, it’s currently on the middle setting and contemplating moving to a slightly softer front spring.

Originally Posted by 1FastSicilian

I'm on the same suspension and I'm 6 from full stiff in the front and 8 from full stiff in the rear but on OEM rear sway. I haven't noticed any mid corner understeer.,

I do feel the rear of the car feel a little unsettling sometimes and I think I have to the subframe mounts and other bushings back there soon. I'll report back after my next track day in several weeks.

this is actually my current battle, 6 clicks from stiff front and 9 clicks from stiff rear.

OEM sways, spl arms, solid rear subframe..

maybe my tire pressures are not where they should be.

I should raise the car a bit more upfront and correct the rake a bit.

again also experiencing the same mid-corner understeer towards exit.

no aero.