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      12-07-2018, 05:31 PM   #1
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Motorrad 880090 Thermostat

I like to create a discussion about this thermostat.

Troyjeup is making a claim that it improves some items on his instagram.






in his comments, this is from 11/1/2018
Quote:
@sam_johns the oil thermostat is 205, OEM coolant is 179. Oil thermostat will be your minimum operating temp. So the engine is fighting itself. All this is doing, is making the temps align so it is a smooth operating engine with increase thermodynamics. I have done ridiculously detailed and extensive testing on this over the past 11 months
While I get that there is a difference, I don't understand how that would benefit. Is there anyone with more thermal insight?
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      12-08-2018, 09:31 AM   #2
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Interesting. I need to buy a new thermostat
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      12-08-2018, 10:25 AM   #3
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From what I gather:
When coolant temperature is between 174F and 192F, the difference with this thermostat is that the coolant will arrive to temp faster to 190s. This will reduce the time between normal operating temp and warmup. I would imagine this would benefit the engine wears as most wear occurs during cold starts.

This is what I am assuming is the benefits with my limited knowledge.
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      12-09-2018, 06:59 PM   #4
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Iím running this, it tightens then clearance on the rings.
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      12-09-2018, 10:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amrazM View Post
Iím running this, it tightens then clearance on the rings.
amazon probably doesn't know what fits or doesn't fit, but it fits yes?
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      12-09-2018, 10:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Route 16 View Post
amazon probably doesn't know what fits or doesn't fit, but it fits yes?
Yah, I asked him if its fine to use on a stock block. He said yes, and I should use 5w50 also. I told him I use LM10w60 and he said its the worst oil for cold starts. I picked up the thermostat myself from RockAuto. Its sitting on my printer in my computer room.
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      12-09-2018, 10:47 PM   #7
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deansbimmer any idea if this works for our cars and should we be using it? 190įF thermostat apparently.
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      12-10-2018, 05:47 AM   #8
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It fits.

Honestly you guys should do your own research on whether or not you need this. I have The do88 coolers on my car with the csf radiator so the coolant and oil temp stays consistent even with a warmer t stat. I have not dynoíd it yet so I cant say if itís adding power but it is better on fuel and my .5L of oil consumption per 1500 miles is now gone.

Just to note, when I install my active blower I will Be removing this.
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      12-10-2018, 05:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsGary View Post
Yah, I asked him if its fine to use on a stock block. He said yes, and I should use 5w50 also. I told him I use LM10w60 and he said its the worst oil for cold starts. I picked up the thermostat myself from RockAuto. Its sitting on my printer in my computer room.
10w60 in general is the worst for cold start because it doesnít flow on cold startup so you rod bearing lubrication is relying on the oil film at the bearing shell.

Iím running amsoil 5w50, Troy will suggest it and I believe JColley will agree that you are not giving up any sort of protection with the 5w50 oil.
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      12-10-2018, 05:54 AM   #10
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half those claims are nonsense, and the rest are marginal at best. are you trying to solve a problem with this?
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      12-10-2018, 07:45 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
half those claims are nonsense, and the rest are marginal at best. are you trying to solve a problem with this?
How do you recon Roastbeef? We all know the car goes twice as fast only by washing it so why wouldn't the SMG skift faster by changing coolant temp a couple of degrees? That is if we had SMG of course...
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      12-10-2018, 08:44 AM   #12
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Troy Jeup is considered by most to be an experienced and knowledgeable S65/85 engine builder. I would not be so quick to discount his recommendation. I donít think he has any financial motiveó he is not profiting from his recommendations.
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      12-10-2018, 08:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GORDON.M3 View Post
deansbimmer any idea if this works for our cars and should we be using it? 190įF thermostat apparently.
These are Dodge truck/Viper thermostats but they'll fit our S65/S85 engines.

OEM coolant thermostat opens at 179f. The 880090 Motorrad is 190f. They also make 180f and 170f thermostats. We've used ones from Stant and Gates here at our shop as well.

Engine oil needs to reach at least 212f to be able to burn off condensates etc and if the engine/oil can't do so then your oil suffers. If your oil suffers, your engine suffers. If the oem coolant thermostat opens at 179 then the engine is taking longer to get the oil to that 212. If you replace the tstat to a 190 then you reduce that window and in a street car the engine can potentially get to temp faster. Generally, we might reduce the tstat temp for a track car, and raise it for a street car. The engine oil thermostat is also very clunky and we're working on a better solution for more accurate temperature maintenance.

Different setups and climates can dictate different needs. What works for Jeup in Michigan may be counter productive for us here in Texas. Jeup also does mostly S85 stuff- those M5 and M6 are SMG cars. Fine tuning takes some experimentation.
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      12-10-2018, 12:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
half those claims are nonsense, and the rest are marginal at best. are you trying to solve a problem with this?
Not trying to solve anything but curious about the topic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deansbimmer View Post
These are Dodge truck/Viper thermostats but they'll fit our S65/S85 engines.

OEM coolant thermostat opens at 179f. The 880090 Motorrad is 190f. They also make 180f and 170f thermostats. We've used ones from Stant and Gates here at our shop as well.

Engine oil needs to reach at least 212f to be able to burn off condensates etc and if the engine/oil can't do so then your oil suffers. If your oil suffers, your engine suffers. If the oem coolant thermostat opens at 179 then the engine is taking longer to get the oil to that 212. If you replace the tstat to a 190 then you reduce that window and in a street car the engine can potentially get to temp faster. Generally, we might reduce the tstat temp for a track car, and raise it for a street car. The engine oil thermostat is also very clunky and we're working on a better solution for more accurate temperature maintenance.

Different setups and climates can dictate different needs. What works for Jeup in Michigan may be counter productive for us here in Texas. Jeup also does mostly S85 stuff- those M5 and M6 are SMG cars. Fine tuning takes some experimentation.

If you can, can you explain what the purpose of lower thermostat for track cars?

I understand a thermostat has wax that melts at a preset temperature and opens within 3-4F of the set temperature. Fully open will be around 15-20F higher than the set temperature.


I assume that means the lower temp Tstats are reduce the fully open window to be lower to aid in cooling the engine down. I must be missing something, as I would imagine the engine runs above fully open all the time during heavy use (track days) and we are at the mercy of the cooling system's capability of heat exchanging. Correct me if I'm missing something (I most likely am.)
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      12-10-2018, 01:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derbo View Post
If you can, can you explain what the purpose of lower thermostat for track cars?
Track cars don't need help getting hot like some daily drivers might. They usually push the cooling system to its limit already. Using a lower temp thermostat can help the cooling system keep up before temperatures might start to run away mid race. They are also not usually restricted by emissions or efficiency requirements that can be hampered by running a lower coolant temperature in closed loop conditions. Selecting the ideal thermostat for your conditions (track or street) will require data collection, review, and testing...In typical OEM fashion BMW selected the solution adequate for the majority of users.
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      12-10-2018, 02:20 PM   #16
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Do thermostats simply begin to open at their rated temp or is the rated temp the temp when it first is fully open? I understand they can take up to 20 degrees F from starting to open to fully open?
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      12-10-2018, 09:12 PM   #17
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Hmmm... so if I'm due for a thermostat and live in a cold winter area that plans to track next summer. Would I go with this thermostat or stick with oem?
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      12-10-2018, 10:25 PM   #18
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I have been using these thermostats for a while now on S65's and S85's that are boosted and see track time.
There have been some posts from other users on multiple forums.
Its nice that Troy posts up his research. Someone has to try stuff and being that he gets involved into engine work, its nice to get another opinion on optioned parts.
There are a few temp ranges offered that fit these platforms. Just like the engine oil, it has been known that 10-60 is not the best oil spec.
10 is the cold oil flow, depending on where you live like CA for example, 10 weight is too much. If you speak to oil companies like Torco, Redline, Motul, Amsoil they will recommend to drop the 60 weight down as well. Tight clearance engines need a specific oil. Fuel, how the engine is used and other variables are key to correct oil as well. I'm sure most specialty shops will already be educated on these topics regarding oil. Mobil 1, Castrol and others are poor oil grades and probably a category 1 or 2 oil at best. Tack on owners that drive 10k miles per service and drive the shit out of these cars and its easy to see why rod bearing shell issues arise. That 10-60 Castrol is prob a 40 weight by the time you change it and all that protection is gone.
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      12-11-2018, 07:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Do thermostats simply begin to open at their rated temp or is the rated temp the temp when it first is fully open? I understand they can take up to 20 degrees F from starting to open to fully open?
Yes, the rated temp is the point at which the thermostat is activated. It takes time for the internal heat motor to fully open and by then the coolant would have come up some more.


Quote:
Hmmm... so if I'm due for a thermostat and live in a cold winter area that plans to track next summer. Would I go with this thermostat or stick with oem?
If you'll be driving it through the winter as well then I'd go with the 190. Next year I'd monitor your temps during the summer. Personally I don't think I'd want to use a 190 on a bunch of track sessions...
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      12-11-2018, 08:42 AM   #20
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On a bunch of track sessions, wonít the thermostat be fully open whether it is a 179 or 190? I have not tracked and logged coolant temps, but tend to doubt the radiator and fans can cool the coolant on the track enough to get it back down low enough to close the thermostat, even the 190. It seems to me that the the fan switch setpoints and track speeds and radiator airflow control the coolant temp more than the thermostat under track conditions. At best, a colder thermostat would give a little more initial reserve, which would probably be used up in one lap.
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      12-11-2018, 05:44 PM   #21
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FWIW...I was able to grab the Stant equivalent at Advance Auto for $22 inc tax. Amazon (as the seller) is backordered...was able to run down the street and grab this.

Listed price was $27.xx, but a 25% off offer quickly popped up after I hovered on the site for a bit.

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      12-12-2018, 02:17 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
On a bunch of track sessions, wonít the thermostat be fully open whether it is a 179 or 190? I have not tracked and logged coolant temps, but tend to doubt the radiator and fans can cool the coolant on the track enough to get it back down low enough to close the thermostat, even the 190. It seems to me that the the fan switch setpoints and track speeds and radiator airflow control the coolant temp more than the thermostat under track conditions. At best, a colder thermostat would give a little more initial reserve, which would probably be used up in one lap.

The 11* makes a big difference, the Warmer the coolant and oil gets the harder the cooling system has to work to bring it down especially with stock components. At the track when the t stat begins to open at 190 the car will be at 200* by the time itís fully open and youíll be flowing coolant yes but you will already have a lot of heat in the entire cooling channel.

If you want to run this on the track you I would suggest getting the csf rad and do88 oil cooler because the larger core in both pieces will give you greater thermal efficiency and the car will be able to sustain more consistent temperature.
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