DCT issues after driving hard

[Beemdog]

So was there any fluid from the leak visible with the "felt" cover on the bottom of the trans? Or did you need to remove the felt cover to see any evidence of a leak?

[azndrunk74]

Originally Posted by Beemdog

So was there any fluid from the leak visible with the "felt" cover on the bottom of the trans? Or did you need to remove the felt cover to see any evidence of a leak?

You have to remove the felt cover to really see what is going on. It doesn't take long. I'm going to start checking every oil change.

[knevel]

Originally Posted by V8FunNaturally

Your derision and cocky attitude in denying the failed promises of dct makes you a source of full laughter for me.

Your clownish behavior is the only source of laughter in this thread.

A cheap gasket leak (which is probably what this is, and it should have been addressed when noticed by the install crew), is far cheaper than replacing clutch packs and servos that wear out far more so on the manual transmission. Then you have folks like that guy on the M4 forum that money shifted and blew his whole engine. $27K repair bill please.

No one is denigrating your old transmission, but you 6MT4LIFE guys just can't help pick and tear at any perceived fault in "that gosh-derned new fangled technology frem dem nazi krauts and kids today with their pants down with their rap music durrperrdurrr". It's pretty pathetic. Why don't you go and and play with your stick you enjoy so much, and let this guy use the forum as it is intended, to get feedback and help getting his ride back on the road? Your attitude is a cancer.

[BzsBimmer]

OP,
FYI, there are two gaskets that can leak. The bottom probably isn't your culprit. There is a side and top gasket that leak. This requires the entire transmission to be dropped.

I had mine done under warranty. My parts list and labor hours is posted somewhere on one of the DCT leaking threads.

I don't know how much out of warranty you are however maybe speak to a SA to see if BMW will goodwill the leaks.

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by knevel

Your clownish behavior is the only source of laughter in this thread.

A cheap gasket leak (which is probably what this is, and it should have been addressed when noticed by the install crew), is far cheaper than replacing clutch packs and servos that wear out far more so on the manual transmission. Then you have folks like that guy on the M4 forum that money shifted and blew his whole engine. $27K repair bill please.

No one is denigrating your old transmission, but you 6MT4LIFE guys just can't help pick and tear at any perceived fault in "that gosh-derned new fangled technology frem dem nazi krauts and kids today with their pants down with their rap music durrperrdurrr". It's pretty pathetic. Why don't you go and and play with your stick you enjoy so much, and let this guy use the forum as it is intended, to get feedback and help getting his ride back on the road? Your attitude is a cancer.

Wasn't there a group hug emoticon somewhere?
With everything, there's pro's and con's.

[azndrunk74]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

OP,
FYI, there are two gaskets that can leak. The bottom probably isn't your culprit. There is a side and top gasket that leak. This requires the entire transmission to be dropped.

I had mine done under warranty. My parts list and labor hours is posted somewhere on one of the DCT leaking threads.

I don't know how much out of warranty you are however maybe speak to a SA to see if BMW will goodwill the leaks.

I'll take to my SA but I highly doubt BMW will help me out..i'll at least give it a shot

I'll try to dig around and find your thread. Thanks for the heads up.

Does anyone happen to remember off the top of their head how many hours it takes to R&R the transmission?

[BzsBimmer]

Read this and PM Redpriest. He's a Bay Area guy apparently and got goodwill from BMW.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...T#post16308627

Here's my info
Hopefully I can contribute
My vehicle just underwent gasket replacement surgery
My DCT was showing signs of a leak. The dealer replaced the side, top and bottom gaskets.
This was not covered under the factory warranty (expired) and my failure happened prior to 47K miles but my warranty passed the time allowed (2010 MY)

My extended warranty (MaxCare) covered this from the BMW dealer directly.
The repairs did require the full removal of the DCT transmission as you cannot get to the top or side gaskets without removing the transmission.

Parts were $762
Labor was $1769. Not sure what the warranty dealer rate/hr is but if you assume $100/hr, it's about 18 hours.

Parts replaced:
Desc. - PN - $$ - Qty
Hydraulic Cover - 28607842855 - $305.56 - 1
Gasket - 28607842856 - $45.03 - 1
O-Ring - 28607849555 - $28.80 - 1
Countersink Screw - 28107842386 - $4.29 - 28
Oil Pan - 28107842385 - $176.17 - 1
O-Ring - 17211742636 - $0.98 - 3
O-Ring - 17222245358 - $1.27 - 2
DCTF-1 1L Oil - 83220440214 - $40.57 - 2

Dealer did a great job and MaxCare wasn't as scary as the bad online reviews made it out to be. Of course YMMV

[M33too]

Originally Posted by V8FunNaturally

Your derision and cocky attitude in denying the failed promises of dct makes you a source of full laughter for me.
I was there in 2008 when bmw initially advertised dct as never needing any maintenance for the full life of the car. I predicted exactly what has happened. At the time people ordering dct were haughty and blind and they bashed MT. I laughed at their foolhardiness, I laugh even more now reading these threads. All my prediction about dct came true.

What we knew from the start :
- Adding extra weight to the car compared to 6MT
- Rated at a less max torque than 6MT
What i predicted :
- painful initial software problems that lead to the biggest complain threads lasting years on this forum. Took several iteration to "solve".
- Not "maintenance free" as bmw initially claimed. Oil LEAKS...
- Finally, Breaks down in mid life of the car and requires costly replacements.

dct has proven to be worse on maintenance, repair cost, and driver's involvement. Some will still fight the last one but other two are there. 6MT is by far the best options for the high reving M3.



Do You realize that was exactly the cost of the DCT option ? LoL. Good for bmw to make twice the benefit on that option.

Dude, give us a BREAKKKKK. Please tell me you aren't one of those #savethemanuals nazi 6 speed only toting people. Anything high performance being touted as lifetime, maintainence free is just stupid. Just about anything mechanical under the sun has the possibility of failing.

Extra weight? How much more does it weigh? 30 lbs? 40 lbs? The weight penalty is made up in shift speed plus more. Look at the times of supecharged dct times vs supercharged manuals. No where close.

Lower torque capacity? I've personally have driven my dct trans very hard and hold the record for the quickest e9x. I have made a pass on a hoosier tire. Zero issues! There are guys such as Drew making 750 whp and his trans still doesn't slip. Tell me how your torquey m3 needs more torque capacity

[SJL Custom]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

Read this and PM Redpriest. He's a Bay Area guy apparently and got goodwill from BMW.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...T#post16308627

Here's my info
Hopefully I can contribute
My vehicle just underwent gasket replacement surgery
My DCT was showing signs of a leak. The dealer replaced the side, top and bottom gaskets.
This was not covered under the factory warranty (expired) and my failure happened prior to 47K miles but my warranty passed the time allowed (2010 MY)

My extended warranty (MaxCare) covered this from the BMW dealer directly.
The repairs did require the full removal of the DCT transmission as you cannot get to the top or side gaskets without removing the transmission.

Parts were $762
Labor was $1769. Not sure what the warranty dealer rate/hr is but if you assume $100/hr, it's about 18 hours.

Parts replaced:
Desc. - PN - $$ - Qty
Hydraulic Cover - 28607842855 - $305.56 - 1
Gasket - 28607842856 - $45.03 - 1
O-Ring - 28607849555 - $28.80 - 1
Countersink Screw - 28107842386 - $4.29 - 28
Oil Pan - 28107842385 - $176.17 - 1
O-Ring - 17211742636 - $0.98 - 3
O-Ring - 17222245358 - $1.27 - 2
DCTF-1 1L Oil - 83220440214 - $40.57 - 2

Dealer did a great job and MaxCare wasn't as scary as the bad online reviews made it out to be. Of course YMMV

18hrs to do all that is absolutely outrageous. I have removed dozens of these transmissions and I think the first time took me 8 hours tops. That was me taking my time to make sure of everything. Now I can R&I one in as little as half that.

The only thing that requires removal of the trans in that parts list is the replacement of the mechatronics unit cover gasket on the right side. That is definitely something that cant be done in the vehicle.

[SJL Custom]

Originally Posted by azndrunk74

I plan on topping the DCT fluid off this weekend. In the meantime I'm going to order 6L of fluid, a new transmission oil pan, cartridge and suction filters to do a fluid flush/gasket replacement. I drove the car today to run some errands (pick up DCT fluid $40/L - ouch! )and it drove absolutely fine (I did not go WOT in 1st and 2nd gears).

Here is the leak under my car:





I plan on topping off the DCT fluid this weekend. I'm going to avoid driving the car until I do so. Hopefully I caught the issue early enough.

Or you could buy a SSP trans pan and never worry about it leaking again



I won't fight over which one is better, my e46 M3 is 6MT so I have the best of both worlds. I just want my DCT issue fixed

Make sure not to strip the bolt holes in the trans when replacing the pan and gasket. I have seen this many times as well. The gasket has aluminum spacers in it so that it cant be squished when tightening. I usually apply blue loc-tite to each bolt and just snug them up enough to make sure they are, and stay, tight.

[BzsBimmer]

That'd be $221/hr. Not sure if that's a reasonable labor rate but for a dealer charging a warranty company, maybe!

[knevel]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

Read this and PM Redpriest. He's a Bay Area guy apparently and got goodwill from BMW.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...T#post16308627

Here's my info
Hopefully I can contribute
My vehicle just underwent gasket replacement surgery
My DCT was showing signs of a leak. The dealer replaced the side, top and bottom gaskets.
This was not covered under the factory warranty (expired) and my failure happened prior to 47K miles but my warranty passed the time allowed (2010 MY)

My extended warranty (MaxCare) covered this from the BMW dealer directly.
The repairs did require the full removal of the DCT transmission as you cannot get to the top or side gaskets without removing the transmission.

Parts were $762
Labor was $1769. Not sure what the warranty dealer rate/hr is but if you assume $100/hr, it's about 18 hours.

Parts replaced:
Desc. - PN - $$ - Qty
Hydraulic Cover - 28607842855 - $305.56 - 1
Gasket - 28607842856 - $45.03 - 1
O-Ring - 28607849555 - $28.80 - 1
Countersink Screw - 28107842386 - $4.29 - 28
Oil Pan - 28107842385 - $176.17 - 1
O-Ring - 17211742636 - $0.98 - 3
O-Ring - 17222245358 - $1.27 - 2
DCTF-1 1L Oil - 83220440214 - $40.57 - 2

Dealer did a great job and MaxCare wasn't as scary as the bad online reviews made it out to be. Of course YMMV

Ouch, ~$2500 is a lot! Just priced out getting those parts from a local California dealer (not even the cheapest source out there), total cost $642. The most expensive part, the hydraulic cover, you probably could have just re-used, so total part cost is in the neighborhood of $350.

Asked my good BMW mechanic friend who now runs an indy how much time this would take, he said it's about 4-5 hours of labor, so $500-600 before buddy discount.

Damn stealership prices are outrageous. Good thing MaxCare covered it. On the other hand, if anything ever crops up with the transmission again, you can blame the dealership and they will probably goodwill you a new one.

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by knevel

Ouch, ~$2500 is a lot! Just priced out getting those parts from a local California dealer (not even the cheapest source out there), total cost $642. The most expensive part, the hydraulic cover, you probably could have just re-used, so total part cost is in the neighborhood of $350.

Asked my good BMW mechanic friend who now runs an indy how much time this would take, he said it's about 4-5 hours of labor, so $500-600 before buddy discount.

You got taken for a ride. On the other hand, if anything ever crops up with the transmission again, you can blame the dealership and they will probably goodwill you a new one.

Warranty company got taken for a ride... I just rode shotgun

[knevel]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

Warranty company got taken for a ride... I just rode shotgun

Saw that and edited that part, but you were too quick.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

OP,
FYI, there are two gaskets that can leak. The bottom probably isn't your culprit. There is a side and top gasket that leak. This requires the entire transmission to be dropped.

I had mine done under warranty. My parts list and labor hours is posted somewhere on one of the DCT leaking threads.

I don't know how much out of warranty you are however maybe speak to a SA to see if BMW will goodwill the leaks.

OP, there are actually three places that can leak the third being on the top of the box (assumingly where the oil cooling lines attach, got pics)). I know because had it. The box has to come down in this case which start to add significant time. Its just about possible to see the oil coming down in my case on the right side, very tight area.

Mines still at the dealer now since 8 weeks but this has to do with wrong oil used after leak fix. Different story which I'll finish in another thread when job completed...:

[V8FunNaturally]

Originally Posted by binh513

Dude, give us a BREAKKKKK. Please tell me you aren't one of those #savethemanuals nazi 6 speed only toting people. Anything high performance being touted as lifetime, maintainence free is just stupid. Just about anything mechanical under the sun has the possibility of failing.

Extra weight? How much more does it weigh? 30 lbs? 40 lbs? The weight penalty is made up in shift speed plus more. Look at the times of supecharged dct times vs supercharged manuals. No where close.

Lower torque capacity? I've personally have driven my dct trans very hard and hold the record for the quickest e9x. I have made a pass on a hoosier tire. Zero issues! There are guys such as Drew making 750 whp and his trans still doesn't slip. Tell me how your torquey m3 needs more torque capacity

no hard feelings, but i think it needs to be told like it is, dct was much over hyped when its reliability was not proven, now that we have enough years to judge it's clear 6MT comes out as being more reliable.

dct adds 45 extra pounds over 6MT which is half an extra tank of gasoline, or 3 times the difference in weight between 4 light forged wheels and ZCP wheels. Not a lot but not negligible either.

The dct is a Getrag unit and as per its designers it is not suggested to handle more than 520NM ( = 383 lb/ft). the qualifier gears part will start cut into each other when over 520NM their hardness max HV600-1500.

The 6MT is made by ZF and is rated for more than 650 NM ( 480 lb/ft ) far more than the dct. That's specs.

So remember, whatever torque your dct was able to withstand, the manual 6MT will always be superior with +100 lb/ft more.

the lack of involvment is another topic but it's already enough said.

[SJL Custom]

Originally Posted by V8FunNaturally

no hard feelings, but i think it needs to be told like it is, dct was much over hyped when its reliability was not proven, now that we have enough years to judge it's clear 6MT comes out as being more reliable.

dct adds 45 extra pounds over 6MT which is half an extra tank of gasoline, or 3 times the difference in weight between 4 light forged wheels and ZCP wheels. Not a lot but not negligible either.

The dct is a Getrag unit and as per its designers it is not suggested to handle more than 520NM ( = 383 lb/ft). the qualifier gears part will start cut into each other when over 520NM their hardness max HV600-1500.

The 6MT is made by ZF and is rated for more than 650 NM ( 480 lb/ft ) far more than the dct. That's specs.

So remember, whatever torque your dct was able to withstand, the manual 6MT will always be superior with +100 lb/ft more.

the lack of involvment is another topic but it's already enough said.

Heres a fact. I have a customer running his 335is dct at over 500wtq and 550whp on SSP clutches for over 50000km with zero issues to date. He BEATS on the car daily and since installation, I have never received a call related to any problems. After two years, I had to call him for an update and to ask if everything was alright. He told me "Yes everything is fantastic. I love this trans now. It pulls and shifts so well. People cant believe how fast the car is. I even pull GTRs!"

The rating by Getrag is based on the clutch capacity, not the gearbox. The same gearbox is used for all BMW DCTs and is rated at as much as 700nm (518ft/lbs) in the M5 and M6. I have worked on and upgraded numerous BMW DCT transmissions since 2012 and have yet to see a gear box failure. I am also one of the fortunate few to have ever disassembled a complete BMW DCT to study it, look for and address the weak areas. Im not saying it wont at some point, but as of right now, no one has broken a gear.

[BzsBimmer]

I understand totally what V8Fun is saying though. I think a manual transmission will always be more reliable than any type of automatic whether it's an old school torque converter or SMG, DTC, DSG etc simply due to less moving parts.

OEM specs provided by V8Fun are based on the supplier using stock parts. Of course when modified with SSP goodies, the DCT would be able to handle higher loads however the argument needs to be based on a stock DCT with high horsepower engines. I would agree that the stock DCT would wear much faster or be subjected to greater risk of failure.

I like and prefer my DCT over manual. I know how to drive a manual as that's what I used to drive for many years however with bay area traffic and me just getting used to some type of "automatic", I've grown fond of this type of technology.

To each their own.

[azndrunk74]

I went to check the fluid level of my transmission and it was completely full. As soon as I removed the fill plug tons of fluid came out.

Unfortunately, the transmission has been freaking out even with normal driving. While I was stopped the transmission malfunction light popped on and I had to restart the car in order to get the car into gear and drive.

Should I even bother doing a fluid flush and filter replacement or just just drop in a whole new (used) transmission? Could my fluid be so old that it's causing the transmission to overheat and do weird things? Or is the entire thing just done/dead? The weird thing is this started happening immediately after the test pipe install. I'm sure it's more coincidence than correlation.

[7500rich]

Originally Posted by azndrunk74

I went to check the fluid level of my transmission and it was completely full. As soon as I removed the fill plug tons of fluid came out.

Unfortunately, the transmission has been freaking out even with normal driving. While I was stopped the transmission malfunction light popped on and I had to restart the car in order to get the car into gear and drive.

Should I even bother doing a fluid flush and filter replacement or just just drop in a whole new (used) transmission? Could my fluid be so old that it's causing the transmission to overheat and do weird things? Or is the entire thing just done/dead? The weird thing is this started happening immediately after the test pipe install. I'm sure it's more coincidence than correlation.

I don't have a dct, and don't have any experience diagnosing problems etc., but if in your shoes I definitely wouldn't do something as drastic as replacing the transmission yet.

You've bought the fluid, gaskets etc., change them! See how it works out. People have plenty of issues with the 6mt grinding on first shift when cold (I know not related to this) and changing fluid helps.

Take things in steps and it may work out fine. What's the worst that could happen? Tranny blows and your stuck somewhere, is that really a big deal? For my individual situation its not. I have a daily so I'd just need to tow the M and get the new tranny after that. I don't know your situation and if you had a catastrophic failure while out and about it may put you in a bad spot...

Good luck and I'm following to see how it works out for you!

[BzsBimmer]

Replace fluid and filter to see if it goes away. Cheaper than a whole new trans.

[MTM]

Originally Posted by azndrunk74

... The weird thing is this started happening immediately after the test pipe install. I'm sure it's more coincidence than correlation.

I don't believe in coincidences. I learned years ago that whenever something goes wrong on a car, go back and look at the last thing on which you worked. Is there any chance the test pipe install knocked off a sensor (or maybe made it loose), ground out a control signal, or something like that? Assuming the fluid was in good condition (not full of crap and a burned color) then my money is on a instrumentation problem...

Let us know what you find out.