Track forum general chit chat.

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by Ximian

So for the next track day, I'm trying to find a good system with accurate GPS (10 hz) and throttle/gas measurements.

The options are -

1. Qstarz BT-Q1000eX, $200 with good analysis software with tracks built-in. It's able to break down a track into many sectors automatically which is helpful evaluating multiple laps.

For throttle/brake measurements, I can use my Carly adapter with manual work ($TIME) to analyze it.

2. Waylens Horizon, includes ODB2 adapter and 1080P camera ($500 + better mount)
No idea about any analysis software, but it seems like the best value for the hardware you get.

3. AIM Solo DL OBD2 GPS Lap Timer with ECU Connection ($700)
It seems way too expensive for what you get. Race Studio 3 looks very dated but being able to analyze the lap from the timer might be useful.

4. ApexPro - no way to measure throttle/brake but it looks like it has the best analysis software and you can review other people's laps. It's limited to iPhones which is odd. ($450)

If you have one of those, would you still go with that option or something else?

The AIM DL paired with Smartycam is the way to go. It's about the cost of a new set of slicks but it lasts forever.

I have had the DL for about 7 years and the smartycam for 3+ years.

Having the ability to look at CAN data like pedal position, brake, steering angle, etc has been one of the single best investments in improving my driving.

Last year I was able to take it to the next level when I had pro racing driver Scott Heckert coach me. He was able to look at my data and also video with data overlay between sessions at the track (no post processing with race render or dashware) and give me instant feedback on what to try. Additionally he would run two or so sessions in my car to get baseline data to compare to. Biggest thing we ended up working on was braking - sometimes softer , sometimes earlier. We pretty much just studied his brake and throttle traces compared to mine and it was easy to see where to pick up time.

We worked together again this year at mid Ohio.


Results at the 4 tracks we have worked together.

Vir : old TT3 track record 1:59.9; my final time 1:58.8 (official new record)
WGI: old TT3 track record 2:00.9; me 2:00.8 (unofficial)
LRP: old TT3 record 59.x; me 56.8 (official new track record)
Mid Ohio w/chicane: old TT3 track record 1:35.7; me 1:35.6 (unofficial)

That is 100% from his coaching enabled through data and video. I don't have right seat. So we were never in car together.

Btw I also have an apex pro. I used it once. It would not be able to tell me what the coach and the AIM did though it does have its place.

[Ximian]

Thanks for the information. The Solo 2 DL package comes with a OBDII connector and it should support throttle and brake pedal position sensors. Does it on our cars without splicing into the CAN? I don't need speed and RPM, only throttle and brake position for now.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Thanks for the information. The Solo 2 DL package comes with a OBDII connector and it should support throttle and brake pedal position sensors. Does it on our cars without splicing into the CAN? I don't need speed and RPM, only throttle and brake position for now.

Don’t get the OBD connection. Do it right. You want CAN. The CAN harness can also be wired to provide power to the device while driving. There is NO reason to tie your hands with OBD. A shop can wire it for you very quickly if you’re not comfortable doing the wiring.

[dparm]

Get the AIM Solo 2 DL, wire it via CAN for the best accuracy and most channels.

If you are technically inclined, and know some basic math and physics, you can figure the rest out with YouTube videos and owner groups. I've also got some great books that I can recommend.

/discussion

[slicer]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Don't get the OBD connection. Do it right. You want CAN. The CAN harness can also be wired to provide power to the device while driving. There is NO reason to tie your hands with OBD. A shop can wire it for you very quickly if you're not comfortable doing the wiring.

+1. Direct wire to CAN is by far more useful as data is severely limited with OBD2 approach. Here's some inspiration for you. I hard wired mine to the center speaker location on my non-nav car that doesn't have a center speaker. It is held in place via a RAM mount that is attached to the unused speaker bracket. I remove the AIM and install a clean, unmodified center cover when not in use. Pardon the background mess in the garage - haha

Solo2 DL by slicerM, on Flickr

Solo2 DL by slicerM, on Flickr

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by slicer

+1. Direct wire to CAN is by far more useful as data is severely limited with OBD2 approach. Here's some inspiration for you. I hard wired mine to the center speaker location on my non-nav car that doesn't have a center speaker. It is held in place via a RAM mount that is attached to the unused speaker bracket. I remove the AIM and install a clean, unmodified center cover when not in use. Pardon the background mess in the garage - haha

that is a beautiful install.

[kyippee]

FWIW I like my waylens a lot and it has improved over time to become reliable now as a lap timer, plus the video quality is great. The original mounts sucked and now they have good "v2" mounts that come standard. Correct on data- it can be exported but it is nowhere near AIM capabilities.

I am considering getting an AIM + CAN connection to supplement my waylens with more data

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by Ximian

I left foot brake on the DCT and without an instructor, prefer threshold braking to get most of it completed before turn in. It's over a second quicker in some corners, but it's not smooth. What I meant by applying throttle at the same time while still at 10-20% braking can be demonstrated by one of dogbone's videos -

When I do that, braking release is much smoother. But without it, I can't seem to get rid of the slight lurch forward when lifting off the brake pedal even half way to the apex. I think I'm at around 25% braking when I start slowly lifting after starting to turn in. Stretching out the 25% to 0% over a second or so results either in the lurch or overslowing. Just looking for any suggestions or tips as to what I could be overlooking. My caliper slide pins are dry, but clean. I may try a little bit of lube on them. Also using Motul RBF660 fluid flushed a week before the event, not that it should matter.

I need to get collect data somehow on my throttle and brake traces to get a better idea of what I'm doing as it's all just speculation on my part. I'll also need to revisit some of the suggestions from this thread about extended brake pedals to see if that helps as well. I had to place my right heel in front of my left foot to hold it in place and that just doesn't work well.

For reference, my fastest lap time with an instructor braking smoothly was 1:58.8xx and fastest solo time for one session I recorded when not braking smoothly was 1:53.7xx.

If you start to trail brake you need to adjust the start of braking zone. Additionally, some turns do not benefit from braking. I actually gained a lot of time from braking earlier and getting on the gas before the apex on higher speed turns. Sounds backwards but results show it's faster. The only times I trailbrake are majority on slower turns where my pig of a truck doesn't want to turn in. It's only used to point the car, not to necessarily slow down enough to be able to turn in.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Here's two pix: the first turn and last turn zoomed in.

I'm assuming it takes a moment for a pedal to return all the way to it's resting position. Most of the time, my movement is pretty quick from one pedal to another. But again, I do not left-foot brake. I did try it a few years ago. Didn't really take to it. I always laugh at myself because I feel like my left foot is a peg leg in terms of being capable of fine movement. I could never have been a drummer!!

I wonder if that is anti knock back springs not letting the piston release all the way until you're further driving off. But that means it's not reading pedal pressure? Interesting.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by Ximian

So for the next track day, I'm trying to find a good system with accurate GPS (10 hz) and throttle/gas measurements.

The options are -

1. Qstarz BT-Q1000eX, $200 with good analysis software with tracks built-in. It's able to break down a track into many sectors automatically which is helpful evaluating multiple laps.

For throttle/brake measurements, I can use my Carly adapter with manual work ($TIME) to analyze it.

2. Waylens Horizon, includes ODB2 adapter and 1080P camera ($500 + better mount)
No idea about any analysis software, but it seems like the best value for the hardware you get.

3. AIM Solo DL OBD2 GPS Lap Timer with ECU Connection ($700)
It seems way too expensive for what you get. Race Studio 3 looks very dated but being able to analyze the lap from the timer might be useful.

4. ApexPro - no way to measure throttle/brake but it looks like it has the best analysis software and you can review other people's laps. It's limited to iPhones which is odd. ($450)

If you have one of those, would you still go with that option or something else?

Get a used solo DL not the 2. I think the 2 has fancier things but measure the same data.

But a hardwired canbus harness from mworld after that.

Plenty of solo DL used for sale.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by slicer

+1. Direct wire to CAN is by far more useful as data is severely limited with OBD2 approach. Here's some inspiration for you. I hard wired mine to the center speaker location on my non-nav car that doesn't have a center speaker. It is held in place via a RAM mount that is attached to the unused speaker bracket. I remove the AIM and install a clean, unmodified center cover when not in use. Pardon the background mess in the garage - haha

Solo2 DL by slicerM, on Flickr

Solo2 DL by slicerM, on Flickr

Lol how do you reach that when you're harnessed in?

[kyippee]

Little hangout at the shop today redpriest

[slicer]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

Lol how do you reach that when you're harnessed in?

Why would I need to reach it? I put the screen in lap timer mode while on track. It's visible in my line of site, has shift lights, all good.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

Get a used solo DL not the 2. I think the 2 has fancier things but measure the same data.

But a hardwired canbus harness from mworld after that.

Plenty of solo DL used for sale.

I'm keeping an eye out for those, but I've been finding them for $500 or so which means it makes more sense to get the new Solo 2 DL.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by Ximian

I'm keeping an eye out for those, but I've been finding them for $500 or so which means it makes more sense to get the new Solo 2 DL.

I concur. I would get the updated version for a few hundred more.

[dparm]

I'm going to keep asking this: what is the refresh rate/polling interval, and is smoothing enabled?

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by dparm

I'm going to keep asking this: what is the refresh rate/polling interval, and is smoothing enabled?

The AIM is at 10Hz when looking at brake pedal and gas pedal. Most of the parameters it samples on the CAN bus are at 10Hz.

(It samples G-forces internally at 50Hz.)

You know-----no one is giving me any credit for potentially having lightning fast awesome feet! mwuhahahahahaha! Actually, it's quite the opposite.......sometimes in the heat of the moment when going from gas to brake----I misplace my foot on the brake pedal.....I got myself into trouble at Laguna Seca going into the Turn 2 hairpin. Coming down that hill, I only got my big toe on the brake pedal and couldn't slow down enough to make the turn.....ended up in the gravel.....My friend was like, "why didn't you just add your left foot?" And I'm like, "because I'm an idiot and was freaking out, ok!!!??" hahaha

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by dogbone

The AIM is at 10Hz when looking at brake pedal and gas pedal. Most of the parameters it samples on the CAN bus are at 10Hz.

(It samples G-forces internally at 50Hz.)

You know-----no one is giving me any credit for potentially having lightning fast awesome feet! mwuhahahahahaha! Actually, it's quiet the opposite.......sometimes in the heat of the moment when going from gas to brake----I misplace my foot on the brake pedal.....I got myself into trouble at Laguna Seca going into the Turn 2 hairpin. Coming down that hill, I only got my big toe on the brake pedal and couldn't slow down enough to make the turn.....ended up in the gravel.....My friend was like, "why didn't you just add your left foot?" And I'm like, "because I'm an idiot and was freaking out, ok!!!??" hahaha

I accele-brake sometimes.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by dogbone

The AIM is at 10Hz when looking at brake pedal and gas pedal. Most of the parameters it samples on the CAN bus are at 10Hz.

(It samples G-forces internally at 50Hz.)

You know-----no one is giving me any credit for potentially having lightning fast awesome feet! mwuhahahahahaha! Actually, it's quiet the opposite.......sometimes in the heat of the moment when going from gas to brake----I misplace my foot on the brake pedal.....I got myself into trouble at Laguna Seca going into the Turn 2 hairpin. Coming down that hill, I only got my big toe on the brake pedal and couldn't slow down enough to make the turn.....ended up in the gravel.....My friend was like, "why didn't you just add your left foot?" And I'm like, "because I'm an idiot and was freaking out, ok!!!??" hahaha

Thanks. Is the software performing smoothing? Can you turn that off or reduce the smoothing factor?

I've never used the AIM software. I am more familiar with Cosworth's Pi Toolbox but I assume it's similar.

[jid2]

Where is the best place to tap into the CAN signal, I still need to do it on my AIM.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by jid2

Where is the best place to tap into the CAN signal, I still need to do it on my AIM.

Behind the glove box. You can find wires for power in there too.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Don’t get the OBD connection. Do it right. You want CAN. The CAN harness can also be wired to provide power to the device while driving. There is NO reason to tie your hands with OBD. A shop can wire it for you very quickly if you’re not comfortable doing the wiring.

I second that. Get the CAN version