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      07-15-2018, 02:08 PM   #89
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It just wouldn't be a good idea to start mixing shells around and blindly installing them in an engine. If you want the benefit of mixed sets that you know have already been measured properly and packed ready for installation then BE Bearings is the only option. If you want the lowest cost ACL option then just stick to the ACL H-STD. I'd be worried about an indy shop that you can't trust to measure a bearing set properly before installing...
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      07-15-2018, 04:04 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honda View Post
I appreciate your feedback and I know you have been a member for a long time and recently became a vendor but do you really expect all the indy doing rod bearing jobs to measure the journals before installing ? I am pretty sure no body would do that unless you are paying 1.5 or 2x the price of regular rod bearing job
I don't think you understand the point I was making. We're talking about mixing uppers/lowers between sets which is not standard practice among indy shops. It's one thing to not go through the steps to precisely measure off the shelf bearing sets that have been installed thousands of times before. Most shops double check things with Plastigage on every RB job and that's just fine. It's another thing altogether to start mixing uppers/lowers between sets and not measuring to make sure the clearances are as expected before installing. Since I'm not aware of anyone having installed mixed ACL sets it would be foolish to mix upper/lowers without measuring to make sure the results will be ideal.

An extra hour spent taking measurements is cheap insurance against having an angry customer coming back after a RB job failed later on. On the other hand, maybe I'm the only shop who isn't OK with rolling the dice.
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      07-16-2018, 11:57 AM   #91
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Has anyone measured HX-STD Clearance?
I am in Taiwan, using 10W60 for engine oil. I want to use ACL as a rod bearing, but I don't know if I want to choose H-STD or HX-STD?

But ACL seems to be used by many people. Would you like to ask BE and ACL which is most suitable for supercharged?

Last edited by environment2012; 07-16-2018 at 12:03 PM..
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      07-16-2018, 02:53 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honda View Post
I appreciate your feedback and I know you have been a member for a long time and recently became a vendor but do you really expect all the indy doing rod bearing jobs to measure the journals before installing ? I am pretty sure no body would do that unless you are paying 1.5 or 2x the price of regular rod bearing job
Kinda agree with you but at the same time understand deansbimmers point...

The main thing for me is I don't think there's sufficient data to say for sure that the HX has "too much" clearance, or to say it is 0.075mm etc...

Again ACL are "targetting" OE 702/703 clearances with the H, that's for sure given the correspondence I had with their product engineer and also from their tech data in the H which shows minimum 0.013mm and maximum 0.058mm clearance. Then, only 1 set of the H was measured, and from this one set alone, it was deduced that the supposed "nominal clearance" is 0.0508mm, from which some have further inferred that the HX must therefore be "exactly 0.025mm" additional clearance on top of that and therefore are 0.0758mm clearance.

From the above, clearly there's simply insufficient data to make any conclusions to categorically say to run the H or the HX or to mix them. However, it would seem deansbimmer is saying you either run the H, which is his general recommendation, or you run the HX, instead of mixing shells.

From his comments, in isolation based on his logic, I would say it instead technically make more sense to recommend the mixed shells, so that the supposed nominal clearance would be somewhere lower than 0.0758mm but somewhere definitely greater than OE...

Anyway, I took my car for its first hard run with frequent 8000-8500rpm full load running and so far so good... Of course who knows what it looks like in there but there is not a hint of weird sounds or anything like that, if anything it almost sounds unusually smooth since the job was done...

I personally chose the HX because I didn't know better at the time and again there's too many inferences based on minimal data to start with. When ACL sent me tech data on the HX to be in the range of minimum 0.039mm to maximum 0.084mm clearance, it makes me doubt two things - firstly, that "nominally" (and you can choose how you interpret the that, whether as production average, design intended average for instance), the clearance would be just 0.08mm from the maximum and a full 0.037mm away from the minimum, and secondly, that for a large reputable manufacturer, that their production and/or measurement techniques would be that far off that even if they targetted or verified their clearances to be somewhere the middle of their range (0.060mm), that in fact they are off by that much.

Anyway... This is one of those time will tell type things. It's still not known whether 0.075mm clearance is too much, what the actual nominal clearance is, and even if I ran for another 200k KMs this alone doesn't answer either of the unknowns.
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      07-17-2018, 03:23 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deansbimmer View Post
I don't think you understand the point I was making. We're talking about mixing uppers/lowers between sets which is not standard practice among indy shops.
So the general recommendation is to run H-STD?
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      07-17-2018, 06:18 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by environment2012 View Post
Has anyone measured HX-STD Clearance?
I am in Taiwan, using 10W60 for engine oil. I want to use ACL as a rod bearing, but I don't know if I want to choose H-STD or HX-STD?

But ACL seems to be used by many people. Would you like to ask BE and ACL which is most suitable for supercharged?
Way to go bro. Why spending time on contacting vendors if you can make someone else to do it for ya...😎
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      07-17-2018, 06:19 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honda View Post
Yes and according to many ACL sellers, it is thr most sold
Theres a good reason for that. The HX shell only recently became available, apparently after that their customers/various shops was asking them to do an increased clearance version.
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      07-17-2018, 06:30 AM   #96
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I thought deansbimmer’s recommendation was to mix H and HX and to make sure they are mixed pairs when you install them?

It’s not that hard. BMW used to color code the different uppers and lowers and specified mixed pairs from the factory.

But if you have to buy two sets in order to mix them, some of the cost savings evaporates. BMW sold them as uppers and lowers so you essentially bought 2 half sets. Not sure ACL offers half sets.
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      07-17-2018, 08:37 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
It’s not that hard...
It should be an easy concept, mixing upper/lowers as it is commonly done on these engines. All I was suggesting here was that the installer measure dimensions when mixing the ACL sets to make sure the clearances were acceptable and there were no surprises. This should be common practice. Are people out there just slapping these engines together???

If you want a sure-fire tested solution use BE. If you just can't get BE's, want to skimp and save a few bucks, or just need to be different then use ACL. If you believe there is a clearance issue then use the HX-STD set. Otherwise just use the H-STD. If you don't understand the complexities of bearings and their design and don't have a shop that can guide you through it and do the installation, I would avoid inter-mixing ACL sets and just use one of the already available solutions on the market.
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      07-17-2018, 10:12 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honda View Post
No! thats not what I was told. Sellers are selling both right now and the one STILL gets sold more is H-STD
Again, when did you start to hear about and consider the HX shell? Like all products it takes a while before the market catch up, nothing strange. Anyways, certainly not here to convince you either way mate. Either you form your own opinion about what your engine needs or you make an average of the data out there and select accordingly. As H-STD obviously has been sold in larger volumes that should be your call.

Cheers
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      07-17-2018, 03:40 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honda View Post
No! thats not what I was told. Sellers are selling both right now and the one STILL gets sold more is H-STD
I've personally sold the HX bearings two times more than the H-STD bearings.

On a side note, I don't mind mixing and matching and selling it to forum members. Just ask me and I'll do it. I may be willing to measure it before shipping it out if your shop doesn't want to measure it.

On a side note, Thank you deansbimmer for always chiming in and providing your valuable insight.
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      07-17-2018, 09:41 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdul@mpowermotorsports View Post
I've personally sold the HX bearings two times more than the H-STD bearings.

On a side note, I don't mind mixing and matching and selling it to forum members. Just ask me and I'll do it. I may be willing to measure it before shipping it out if your shop doesn't want to measure it.

On a side note, Thank you deansbimmer for always chiming in and providing your valuable insight.
How many sets have U sold and/or installed and for how long have U been doing so?
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      07-18-2018, 03:39 AM   #101
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After reading the ACL official literature, the size is divided into two types: Matched Pairs and Mixed Pairs.
Among them, the S65 engine does not know whether or not the supplied Mixed Pairs=0.0125mm, which means that the H-STD's Nominal Rod Bearing Clearance=0.0508mm plus 0.0125mm=0.0633mm, which is closer to BE's 0.0610mm Clearance.

I wonder if there is such a sale?

http://www.aclraceseries.com/images/catalog.pdf
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      07-18-2018, 04:49 AM   #102
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Wait... How did you come up with the 0.0508mm nominal again? I didn't see anything in that snippet to indicate that with the H-STD?
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      07-18-2018, 10:03 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groovetek View Post
Wait... How did you come up with the 0.0508mm nominal again? I didn't see anything in that snippet to indicate that with the H-STD?
Please refer to this document for several brands of measurement data.
http://wiki.rcollins.org/core/index....5_Rod_Bearings

But I have decided to choose to use H-STD, I have already purchased the delivery.
Clearance is a deep learning, I decided to choose the best-selling H-STD to replace the Rod bearing of the engine.

Last edited by environment2012; 07-18-2018 at 10:13 AM..
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      07-18-2018, 11:16 AM   #104
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I think any bearing change is a good one for an out of warranty car. Based on what you see, you can adjust the mileage interval for the second change.
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      07-18-2018, 01:06 PM   #105
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ACL is the old store that produces Rod bearing, so I believe his product should be no problem, save the money to buy ARP Rod Bolts
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      07-18-2018, 02:09 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by environment2012 View Post
Please refer to this document for several brands of measurement data.
http://wiki.rcollins.org/core/index....5_Rod_Bearings

But I have decided to choose to use H-STD, I have already purchased the delivery.
Clearance is a deep learning, I decided to choose the best-selling H-STD to replace the Rod bearing of the engine.
Haha... And we end back at the very same source data from a single set of H-STDs. Classic.

I hope one of these days one of the workshops here who sells and installs multiple HX-STD and H-STD can measure a few sets each with post some data.
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      07-18-2018, 05:06 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groovetek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by environment2012 View Post
Please refer to this document for several brands of measurement data.
http://wiki.rcollins.org/core/index....5_Rod_Bearings

But I have decided to choose to use H-STD, I have already purchased the delivery.
Clearance is a deep learning, I decided to choose the best-selling H-STD to replace the Rod bearing of the engine.
Haha... And we end back at the very same source data from a single set of H-STDs. Classic.

I hope one of these days one of the workshops here who sells and installs multiple HX-STD and H-STD can measure a few sets each with post some data.
I'll do that. Just give me sometime. Really backed up with my throttle actuator orders.

I'll send you a PM answering your other question.
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      07-19-2018, 03:54 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdul@mpowermotorsports View Post
I'll do that. Just give me sometime. Really backed up with my throttle actuator orders.

I'll send you a PM answering your other question.
Looking forward to your responses mate. TIA

I been holding back my purchase just to be sure.
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      07-23-2018, 02:31 AM   #109
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So had my bearings replaced with ACL HX. Details in the official bearing change thread: https://www.m3post.com/forums/showth...253084&page=34
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      07-24-2018, 11:35 AM   #110
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After a number of cold start after the RB replace I can't help to think the engine runs smoother. Although my shells had very moderate wear hence no metal to metal noise can have been present, the engine run with less tick/noise right from start up. Very nice indeed!
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