Sway bars

[GeorgeA]

Originally Posted by Datka

After some research, sounds like Dinan front bar is the best for our cars but is pricey.

How so? I don't think it's worth the premium over the Eibach.

[Datka]

Originally Posted by GeorgeA

How so? I don't think it's worth the premium over the Eibach.

Quote:


Originally Posted by Richbot View Post #30 in this thread

I am not a fan of the way their adjustment works, without proof/info to the contrary. The way the bar ends drop down and the three holes move the endlink attachment in such a way that it seems like it relies on putting progressively more bending moment on the swaybar to get additional stiffness, which means bushing bind when the bar tries to lift up against the mounts. By contrast the Dinan and RD bars have their holes oriented roughly parallel to the ground so that you'r twisting the bar primarily about the long straight center section, which is how a swaybar is supposed to work and how the OE bar is designed. Eibach appears to have foregone the spaghetti bends the stock and Dinan/RD bars have in favor of...whatever that is. Maybe it works great, no idea, but it doesn't pass the eyeball test without knowing more

Sounds reasonable to me. The difference in price is only about $200.

[GeorgeA]

Originally Posted by Datka

Quote:


Originally Posted by Richbot View Post #30 in this thread

I am not a fan of the way their adjustment works, without proof/info to the contrary. The way the bar ends drop down and the three holes move the endlink attachment in such a way that it seems like it relies on putting progressively more bending moment on the swaybar to get additional stiffness, which means bushing bind when the bar tries to lift up against the mounts. By contrast the Dinan and RD bars have their holes oriented roughly parallel to the ground so that you'r twisting the bar primarily about the long straight center section, which is how a swaybar is supposed to work and how the OE bar is designed. Eibach appears to have foregone the spaghetti bends the stock and Dinan/RD bars have in favor of...whatever that is. Maybe it works great, no idea, but it doesn't pass the eyeball test without knowing more

Sounds reasonable to me. The difference in price is only about $200.

Hm, that's interesting. So the h&r should also work better than the Eibach considering it isn't adjustable.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

...well, one can't win a 1st place at Nationals without the larger front bar, so it likely matters. Everything about the car's handling is enhanced with a larger front bar on course as has been covered ad infinitum in the forum here by National level trophy winning drivers.

I guess that's been the opposite of what I've been advised to do for auto-x which is to soften up the front axle. This is from a suspension designer and we'll know BMW tuner.

Maybe I misinterpreted it to apply to only springs and not springs and sways.

[dab_of_oppo]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

I echo everything Richbot has stated, and the front bar is mandatory for autox where transient response is greatly improved plus in stock class once you go to square tires (still have to run staggered stock wheel widths) and pins-out-max-negative camber up front, the car is very well balanced for a stock class car without too much understeer at all. Hence the reason one won the SCCA F-street National title last year. It is significantly faster than running a stock front bar and much better balanced in transitions. It absolutely helps plant the inside rear tire coming off elements too -- that's one of the biggest benefits as Rich mentioned.

The bar to get now is the adjustable Dinan front bar. At all costs stay away from the current RD Sport bars given all the bar failures they have experienced (fractures) recently. The Dinan bar is tubular, adjustable and well designed.

Do you know by chance what tires/ sizes he was running ?
Thanks!

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by dab_of_oppo

Do you know by chance what tires/ sizes he was running ?
Thanks!

RE-71R, 275/35-18 all around, E92 ZCP. Earlier in the season he was running 265/35s all around, but I think for Nationals he had the 275s. A board member herein owns the car and co-drove with the 1st place winner, placing well.

[dab_of_oppo]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

RE-71R, 275/35-18 all around, E92 ZCP. Earlier in the season he was running 265/35s all around, but I think for Nationals he had the 275s. A board member herein owns the car and co-drove with the 1st place winner, placing well.

Awesome thanks a bunch!

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by lutfy

Eibach bar installed. On full stiff setting is it stiffer than the HR bar? Yes. Can I feel the difference, very little. It's hard to tell much on the street. The HR bar was solid and noticibly heavier. It was built with Input from Turner.....

If I had to do it again (swap); hmmm.

If I had to do it first time, Eibach, only given the adjustability.

Separate note, the endlinks looked pretty much overworked with the ends almost at their max. Let's see if they can take the load.

Cheers,

Lutfy

I assume this is the front sway bar you're referring to here (Eibach)? Was your Eibach front bar definitely tubular or solid?

I have the original Dinan 28.5mm solid front bar, and my goal here was to try to achieve a closer to original front/rear roll stiffness balance now that I'm not autocrossing the car in stock class any longer, so I bought the Eibach rear bar which according to Eibach is tubular. Well, it's clearly solid and probably weighs close to twice the stock bar. It's 25mm (according to Eibach, but I'll measure it tomorrow) vs the stock 22.5mm.

I was fine with the rear OE 22.5mm to Eibach 25mm, both tubular, bar stiffness increase, but now I'm concerned the rear may be too stiff since it's apparently solid -- I set it on the least stiff setting at least. I guess if it's too stiff I'll have to look at the adjustable front Dinan bar now.

Installing this rear bar was the biggest PIA of just about any job I've done on a car, and I *never* want to fool with it again, and this was using a lift, tall tranny jack for subframe, etc. If I have to swap it again, I'm likely paying BPC here in town to do it. I'll finish it up tomorrow and figure this all out...hope this works out ok balance-wise as I'm running an event on Michelin Proving Grounds wet course soon. I guess if it's too stiff, it will make it easier to drift at least.

[OM VT3]

So are front/rear sway bars good to have with me clubsports?

[CSBM5]

Accidentally posted this in another thread also but meant to post it here:

I ended up going with the Eibach rear bar, and it turns out that......it's SOLID. . My calculations were based on it being hollow (with a similar wall thickness to the OEM hollow bar), so they were thrown off creating worry that the roll stiffness would be shifted to the rear too much. Hence I set it on the softer of the two possible adjustment choices -- unfortunately I didn't take careful measurements of the moment arm length before installing it, but eyeballing it shows the further out hole might be 1/4" - 3/8" longer moment arm than the stock bar.

With my street tire staggered setup (OEM 220s with Michelin PSS, 255/275), the car is superbly balanced right now (in the wet). I just did an event yesterday on a flooded wet short road course track (first half was drifting practice, second half was timed runs, so a really good example of two different genres of demands), and then a 1/2 mile circumference wet skidpad. This car is so connected, intuitive, just superbly easy to control; I was able to hold a 3rd gear drift (~60-70mph?) for almost an entire 1/2 mile lap. Unfortunately, I only had one session on the big pad due to time constraints.

On the road course, the transitions from drifting one direction...holding it until just the right moment....then shifting to drifting it in the other direction were very easy to contol, and the car responded superbly. Linking together 5 turns in a row like that was a blast.

So very pleased with the combo of the origninal Dinan 28.5mm solid front bar (non-adjustable) and the Eibach 25mm solid rear adjustable bar "at the moment." It remains to be seen how the car behaves on track with my square setup (10x18 with 275/35 NT-01) in the dry.

Regards,
Chuck

[///Mobbin]

Dinan is having a 10% off sale today and free shipping, tempting.

[roastbeef]

Who installed the swaybar? Are you sure it wasn't installed incorrectly with pre-load?

[admranger]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

Dinan is having a 10% off sale today and free shipping, tempting.

Mine was ordered today. Will be nice not to have so much leaning in the corners.

[kamber]

Hotchkis front and rear E9X M3 sway bars are currentlty discounted at Bimmerworld, I havnt heard much about them one way or another but confirmed with BW that they are indeed hollow. I just picked up a set:

http://www.bimmerworld.com/About-Us/...3-Car-Set.html

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by kamber

Hotchkis front and rear E9X M3 sway bars are currentlty discounted at Bimmerworld, I havnt heard much about them one way or another but confirmed with BW that they are indeed hollow.

Hotchkis doesn't even list them on their website. They show no application for the M3 and searching what is clearly a Hotchkis part number from BW site yields no hits on their site. By the way, if Hotchkis includes the directions for the rear bar like their other E9x applications, don't believe it, lol. The rear is a major pia to install, and if I ever do another one, I will simply disconnect the two brake lines to the subframe, drop the exhaust and lower the whole thing (as opposed to their partial lowering scheme) -- it will be much faster and easier to do it that way.

[kamber]

I'll be dropping my subframe completely anyway to perform the install, since I'm going to knockout subframe/diff bushings and a new driveshaft at the same time. I'll let you guys know once I get the bar if it is indeed the advertised M3 specific 32mm front/25.4mm rear, as opposed to the standard E9X 3-series spec bars.

[///Mobbin]

Originally Posted by kamber

I'll be dropping my subframe completely anyway to perform the install, since I'm going to knockout subframe/diff bushings and a new driveshaft at the same time. I'll let you guys know once I get the bar if it is indeed the advertised M3 specific 32mm front/25.4mm rear, as opposed to the standard E9X 3-series spec bars.

Any updates on this sway-bar set? MCS kit goes in today and I have a feeling sways and subframe/diff bushings are up next!

[kamber]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

Any updates on this sway-bar set? MCS kit goes in today and I have a feeling sways and subframe/diff bushings are up next!

Havn't gotten to it yet, bars are still sitting in storage. Probably sometime within the next month or two!

[Mvez]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Accidentally posted this in another thread also but meant to post it here:

I ended up going with the Eibach rear bar, and it turns out that......it's SOLID. . My calculations were based on it being hollow (with a similar wall thickness to the OEM hollow bar), so they were thrown off creating worry that the roll stiffness would be shifted to the rear too much. Hence I set it on the softer of the two possible adjustment choices -- unfortunately I didn't take careful measurements of the moment arm length before installing it, but eyeballing it shows the further out hole might be 1/4" - 3/8" longer moment arm than the stock bar.

With my street tire staggered setup (OEM 220s with Michelin PSS, 255/275), the car is superbly balanced right now (in the wet). I just did an event yesterday on a flooded wet short road course track (first half was drifting practice, second half was timed runs, so a really good example of two different genres of demands), and then a 1/2 mile circumference wet skidpad. This car is so connected, intuitive, just superbly easy to control; I was able to hold a 3rd gear drift (~60-70mph?) for almost an entire 1/2 mile lap. Unfortunately, I only had one session on the big pad due to time constraints.

On the road course, the transitions from drifting one direction...holding it until just the right moment....then shifting to drifting it in the other direction were very easy to contol, and the car responded superbly. Linking together 5 turns in a row like that was a blast.

So very pleased with the combo of the origninal Dinan 28.5mm solid front bar (non-adjustable) and the Eibach 25mm solid rear adjustable bar "at the moment." It remains to be seen how the car behaves on track with my square setup (10x18 with 275/35 NT-01) in the dry.

Regards,
Chuck

Nice. Are your tires 255-40-18 and 275-40-18 ? Do you have adjustable suspension? Car will be awesome on your square setup too, just may take a little tweaking on suspension, or front bar if you are already on full soft rear.

Bars at both ends are the ticket for the track, even if you have a square setup. The HK bars seem like a great option too. I'm installing them along with my Bilstein Clubsports. If they weren't a PITA to install, you'd probably see big increase in their use.

Not much information from those who have KW/Bilstein clubsports AND front/rear swaybars though. I'll post my feedback once I get the car on track.

The staggered tire setup can work, it just takes fully adjustable suspension, and adjustable bars on both ends. Sure, you give up some ultimate braking performance with a staggered setup, but still, for novices and experts alike, who want to simply drive up on stock/ish wheels/tires, even sticky ones, a rear swaybar should be part of the equation.

I've got dedicated track cars, I just want something I can simply drive up without dragging the whole truck-and-trailer out. Sure, I'll have a square tire setup for the track, but my goal is to get a staggered tire setup (NT01 and Trofeo-R's available in stock 18" sizes) to be very neutral, have good tire wear, and be just as fun. This way, I can just hop in my car and do an event a few times a year with zero effort, and not even have to swap wheels back to stock. AKA - laziness.

[becausephilchow]

Is there a general consensus for what the best front sway is? looking to order one soon.

car is primarily street driven, but i live in the mountains, so i get to have nice cruises

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by Mvez

Nice. Are your tires 255-40-18 and 275-40-18 ? Do you have adjustable suspension? Car will be awesome on your square setup too, just may take a little tweaking on suspension, or front bar if you are already on full soft rear.

255/35-19 and 275/35-19. Nope, car has stock springs/shocks for now. I just came from F-street class prep and added the rear bar. I don't have any great plans for this car other than enjoying it for now. If I change anything, I'll probably be going with MCS coilovers, plus camber plates, etc, but I'm not headed that route for now. I may try the new 888R but I guess it will be in 275/35-18 square since I have the Apex 10" wheels. For now I have 3 year old (but still very sticky) NT-01s on those wheels, so those may have to do for my next autox at the PC.

[M43S7RO]

From what I've gathered, it came down to being between the RD Sport and Dinan adjustable but there seem to have been some possible quality issues with the RDSport after reports of them breaking under load.

Originally Posted by becausephilchow

Is there a general consensus for what the best front sway is? looking to order one soon.

car is primarily street driven, but i live in the mountains, so i get to have nice cruises