Another S65 engine ticking noise

[DOCTOR.Y]

Originally Posted by SickJames10

So I'm having the same issue on my car, I read most of thread. I know this is an old thread. So I'm hoping someone by now found or pinpointed the issue.

I don't believe it has anything to do with oil. I was using Castrol before I switched to Liqui Moly and noise it still there. I noticed the ticking noise more as the weather got hotter. Also, I noticed the noise after I installed TMS test pipes and pulley. Not saying test pipes or pulley have anything to do it, I'm thinking maybe something may be loose. Once my car cools down, I'll take a look.

Did you find anything man?

[Assimilator1]

The video on page 5 sounds like the hydraulic tappets.

Someone mentioned in this thread that they thought hydraulic tappet noise could only(?) happen when the engine's cold, although that is more likely, it can happen when the engine's really hot too, the oil's thinner & so can bleed off more quickly, it depends whether it's an issue with the oil getting into the follower or leaving it.

Btw, 'dry' engine rattle after an oil change is normal, pretty much every car does that I've ever worked on (IIRC), unless you can prefill the filter, that cuts it down a lot.

[grantwoodOK]

So here goes my ticking posting:-

Car history

2011 E93 M3

2nd owner bought it in 2015.
Regular maintenance under BMW until 55K miles.
At 70450 miles my rod bearing went.
Engine was rebuilt with new bearings and stroked to 4.4 with Mahle pistons.

I've run Redline 5w50 in the car since the rebuild.

Right before Christmas the car call for 1qt of oil which I added. NOTE- the oil level with the thicker oil isn't always that accurate.
I then got a warning the level was too high. I didn't remove any as with this weight oil I was burning a quart every 1000 miles.

Then the ticking started so I checked oil level and it said it was fine.

Ticking hasn't gone away in the last month.

Replaced oil last week with a mix of Redline 5w50 amd 10W60. Tick still present.

I tried the hydraulic lifter bleed process (3 times) after these videos we taken and noise initially wasn't there then came back.

First video is after cold start cycle has just completed and the sound is cyclic and not always there.
Second and third videos are after car get to operating temp. The tick is now there all the time.

This is driving me crazy!

[Assimilator1]

Mate that's no tick! More like a heavy tapping at best!

If I were you I'd take it back to the people who rebuilt your engine & get them to investigate.

In the meantime, how about a video revving it up & down a little? (probably upto about 2000 RPM should be enough. Don't do it for long! Just in case).
If it taps roughly equally loudly when the engine is increasing & decreasing in speed, theirs a good chance it's a noisy tappet (follower).
If it knocks/taps much more loudly on revving up then going down, then.... well that's likely really not good!.....
Anyway, to be on the safe side, stop driving it if you haven't already.

I'm not even sure it would be a good idea to drive it to the garage, can they come to you to at least listen to it?
Btw, how come you haven't already asked them?

[Helmsman]

Tend to agree, almost closer a light knocking sound then ticking. Yeah, I'd seek further advice with the folks who rebuilt the engine.

[bvrider1]

I may be wrong here but that engine was built in West Michigan. Hard to get to FL to MI right now.

Keep us posted on what you find out on that noise. Best of luck!

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Btw, how come you haven't already asked them?

[grantwoodOK]

Originally Posted by bvrider1

I may be wrong here but that engine was built in West Michigan. Hard to get to FL to MI right now.

Keep us posted on what you find out on that noise. Best of luck!

Correct the engine was built in Michigan and I'm in Florida.

I have asked Troy about it and he had one of 2 options, either hydraulic lifter of the chain tensions for the oil pump.

I got 2 cans of Liqui Moly Hydraulic Lifter Additive and the sound at idle is not there but still under acceleration between 2-3K when off throttle it's there.

BTW when I changed the oil last week there was 0 residue or any metallic particle on either of the magnetic drain plugs...

So I hadn't had a chance to get the video of the car revving until this afternoon.

[s0ldats]

is the gentleman who rebuilt your motor the same one who is saying that the s65/85 is happiest with thinner oils?

[grantwoodOK]

Originally Posted by s0ldats

is the gentleman who rebuilt your motor the same one who is saying that the s65/85 is happiest with thinner oils?

Nothing but Redline 5W50...

[acarr6]

Originally Posted by grantwoodOK

Correct the engine was built in Michigan and I'm in Florida.

I have asked Troy about it and he had one of 2 options, either hydraulic lifter of the chain tensions for the oil pump.

I got 2 cans of Liqui Moly Hydraulic Lifter Additive and the sound at idle is not there but still under acceleration between 2-3K when off throttle it's there.

BTW when I changed the oil last week there was 0 residue or any metallic particle on either of the magnetic drain plugs...

So I hadn't had a chance to get the video of the car revving until this afternoon.

I had almost exactly the same tick in my car stroker. Turned out to be a stuck lifter. Oil change with additive and some steady mid RPM holding got rid of it..

[grantwoodOK]

Originally Posted by acarr6

I had almost exactly the same tick in my car stroker. Turned out to be a stuck lifter. Oil change with additive and some steady mid RPM holding got rid of it..

What additives, what oil and how long and how often on the mid RPM cycles?

[acarr6]

Originally Posted by grantwoodOK

What additives, what oil and how long and how often on the mid RPM cycles?

I'll get back to you in it when I confirm the exact procedure the mechanic used!

[grantwoodOK]

Originally Posted by acarr6

I'll get back to you in it when I confirm the exact procedure the mechanic used!

Thanks!

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by bvrider1

I may be wrong here but that engine was built in West Michigan. Hard to get to FL to MI right now.

Keep us posted on what you find out on that noise. Best of luck!

I live in the UK and haven't got a clue where you mean .

grantwoodOK
I'm pretty certain that's not chain rattle, not like any chain I've ever heard before anyway!

Their was another 3 series e9x model with a different engine that had problems with noisy tappets which had a quite extensive bleeding procedure, in some of the worse cases they had to replace the head due to the oil galleries being inadequate! That latter point does not apply to the S65 engine. Anyway, you could try that procedure, if you're sure the noise comes from the top of the engine! (Try using a long screwdriver as a stethoscope, touching various metal points around the cylinder head(s) & putting your ear to the handle, assuming you don't have a stethoscope of course ).

[grantwoodOK]

So an update...
I haven’t been sent the bleed process acarr6 spoke about yet.

I chatted to a couple of local BMW guys and I was told to take the car to a BMW Tech/Indie shop in St Pete.

I went took the car there yesterday afternoon. Talked to Art the owner. He stopped what he was working on and came over and took a look. He even plugged in his diagnostics computer to check a few things.

He also did some listening with his stethoscope device.
He said the left bank is starving for oil to the lifters (as suspected) he also disconnected the coil packs on the left bank one by one to listen specifically if there was anything going on with the rods or bearings. His opinion was that the noise was indeed lifters not being fully flooded with oil. Also stated that the bleed process from BMW doesn’t work that well with the S65 because of the oil flow and channels for flow on the S65. He’s asked me to take a LONG drive over the weekend, more than the one or 2 20 mile drives I’ve done. He said the oil would have even begun to circulate to the lifters.

So I’m doing a run tomorrow over to Daytona to catch some of the 24hr race so hopefully this resolved the issue!

[Assimilator1]

Tentative good news then, keep us posted.

I have had that noise before from when I've removed heads off other cars, usually clears after a few miles driving though!

[KawBoy]

I had this very same issue. It started when I first used Liqui Moly (10W60). By the time I've got home, the noise was there. Switched back to Castrol (the OEM stuff) and everything got back to normal. I don't have the answer though. Liqui is superb, really good stuff, but my engine didn't like it.
I am now using Valvoline VR1 20W50 and all is good.

[Assimilator1]

20w/50 in an M3??
I hope not, that's much thicker at the colder end!

[KawBoy]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

20w/50 in an M3??
I hope not, that's much thicker at the colder end!

You heard me right. Welcome to Florida.

[Assimilator1]

Even so, with the tight bearing clearances these engines have, that's a very dubious choice. Unless you have non OEM bearings with larger clearances?

[KawBoy]

I beg to differ. And in no way am I suggesting people to do what I do.
And I am not much worried about fuel consumption.

[Assimilator1]

I'm not referring to MPG, although when the engine's cold yea it would be worse, but then better when it's hot .
I'm referring to the problems our engine can have with big end bearings and tight clearances, thick oiler is only going to exacerbate that problem.
5w/50 would be better, although apparently they shear down quickly to a 40 oil