Adding DAC to improve BT streaming audio quality?

FTP20 · 10-29-2023, 03:50 PM

I am wondering if an external DAC unit could be used to improve the streaming audio quality from my iPhone 15 to the factory iDrive CCC system in my 2008 M3?

I tried the BOVEE WMA3000B and the BMW stream2air A2DP adapters but found the loss in sound quality too much to accept so I am back to connecting my iPhone via the USB under the center armrest.

Somewhere on Bimmerpost I read about incorporating a Fiio BTR5 2022 Bluetooth to improve steaming audio quality. Is this possible for my situation or did I misunderstand the implementation ?

https://www.fiio.com/btr5

Thumbie · 11-14-2023, 04:40 PM

If you can stream through the USB (not the aux) then you will never get better quality with anything else.

But it sounds like your goal is wireless.

I have heard people using bluetooth DACs to AUX input with "slightly better than regular AUX" results.

One guy set up an Apple Airport, then to a DAC, then to AUX. His goal was to use Apple Music's "lossless" format. I think the quality of new bluetooth DACs has about reached that level though.

At that point, I think the best solution is a mr12volt. It outputs audio via fiber optic cable directly into the back of the stereo so you can get lossless quality. Plus wireless Apple CarPlay is nice. There is a CCC version and I have heard it's a teeny bit clunky, but there is a new version out now.

What is your goal here?

Z K · 11-15-2023, 05:01 PM

Interesting discussion!

I used a Fiio BTR DAC for Bluetooth to Aux in before. There's a few finicky things you need to do like set it up to turn on with USB power and turn off when USB powers off. This is in the settings when you connect your phone to the App but you need to manually set it - it is not on by default. The sound quality is good with headphones with the Fiio, but in a car, it needs Line Level output. These DACs are designed to drive headphones so are amplified. When connected to a car, it will work but it will not sound good. Usually the highs get cut off and the bass get blown out because the car is expecting line level output but is getting a high power signal designed to drive headphones. Turning the volume up and down, messing with the EQ settings does not help.

Things like the "Bovee" ones provide line level output but their bluetooth connection and built in DAC is terrible.

So my solution was the "TUNAI Firefly LDAC Bluetooth" adapter for aux in. It has Bluetooth 5.0 and a high bit rate Sony LDAC that provides Line Level Aux Output. It is not designed to drive headphones. It also is designed for car use so it will turn on and off with USB power. This solved my issues and the audio is as good as the original BMW Y cable that used to work with iPhone 30 pin connector. I sold my Fiio BTR and am happy with the cheaper and better TUNAI LDAC.

So if you are just after audio quality and not a screen replacement and Carplay retrofit, then this is a simple plug and play solution. It really makes me wonder why no one else makes quality DACs for car use with line level output. If a Bluetooth DAC says it works with headphones, run away - you don't want that in a car.

Z K · 11-15-2023, 05:57 PM

Oh, and to add to this, I originally wanted to use a home stereo/theater Bluetooth DAC before finding the Tunai.

Those all have line level output and excellent DACs but they are rather big and have a higher power requirement which I am not sure the USB plug under the arm rest would provide. Also, the RCA to 3.5mm and power cables would make my arm rest cubby a nest of cables.

Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/1Mii-Bluetoot.../dp/B0C3HKMRBS

Thumbie · 11-17-2023, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z K

It really makes me wonder why no one else makes quality DACs for car use with line level output. If a Bluetooth DAC says it works with headphones, run away - you don't want that in a car.

that actually is a really good point. I guess it's a bit of a niche market? It'd be perfect for our cars to have a higher-end option.

Although I suppose most don't care about best possible quality...I wish BMW didn't design a sound system that was so difficult to upgrade.

10-29-2023, 03:50 PM	#1
FTP20 Private 34 Rep 87 Posts Drives: Four door ///M Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: North iTrader: (0)	Adding DAC to improve BT streaming audio quality? I am wondering if an external DAC unit could be used to improve the streaming audio quality from my iPhone 15 to the factory iDrive CCC system in my 2008 M3? I tried the BOVEE WMA3000B and the BMW stream2air A2DP adapters but found the loss in sound quality too much to accept so I am back to connecting my iPhone via the USB under the center armrest. Somewhere on Bimmerpost I read about incorporating a Fiio BTR5 2022 Bluetooth to improve steaming audio quality. Is this possible for my situation or did I misunderstand the implementation ? https://www.fiio.com/btr5
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11-14-2023, 04:40 PM	#2
Thumbie Second Lieutenant 96 Rep 243 Posts Drives: 2011 M3/4/6 Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: SF Bay Area iTrader: (0)	If you can stream through the USB (not the aux) then you will never get better quality with anything else. But it sounds like your goal is wireless. I have heard people using bluetooth DACs to AUX input with "slightly better than regular AUX" results. One guy set up an Apple Airport, then to a DAC, then to AUX. His goal was to use Apple Music's "lossless" format. I think the quality of new bluetooth DACs has about reached that level though. At that point, I think the best solution is a mr12volt. It outputs audio via fiber optic cable directly into the back of the stereo so you can get lossless quality. Plus wireless Apple CarPlay is nice. There is a CCC version and I have heard it's a teeny bit clunky, but there is a new version out now. What is your goal here? __________________ -Thumbie 2011 Jerez E90 M3 6-speed Competition Package
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11-15-2023, 05:01 PM	#3
Z K Major General 1889 Rep 5,506 Posts Drives: E90 M3, G20 M340i Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: San Francisco iTrader: (3)	Interesting discussion! I used a Fiio BTR DAC for Bluetooth to Aux in before. There's a few finicky things you need to do like set it up to turn on with USB power and turn off when USB powers off. This is in the settings when you connect your phone to the App but you need to manually set it - it is not on by default. The sound quality is good with headphones with the Fiio, but in a car, it needs Line Level output. These DACs are designed to drive headphones so are amplified. When connected to a car, it will work but it will not sound good. Usually the highs get cut off and the bass get blown out because the car is expecting line level output but is getting a high power signal designed to drive headphones. Turning the volume up and down, messing with the EQ settings does not help. Things like the "Bovee" ones provide line level output but their bluetooth connection and built in DAC is terrible. So my solution was the "TUNAI Firefly LDAC Bluetooth" adapter for aux in. It has Bluetooth 5.0 and a high bit rate Sony LDAC that provides Line Level Aux Output. It is not designed to drive headphones. It also is designed for car use so it will turn on and off with USB power. This solved my issues and the audio is as good as the original BMW Y cable that used to work with iPhone 30 pin connector. I sold my Fiio BTR and am happy with the cheaper and better TUNAI LDAC. So if you are just after audio quality and not a screen replacement and Carplay retrofit, then this is a simple plug and play solution. It really makes me wonder why no one else makes quality DACs for car use with line level output. If a Bluetooth DAC says it works with headphones, run away - you don't want that in a car. __________________ Auto Detailing Enthusiast! Last edited by Z K; 11-15-2023 at 05:18 PM..
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11-15-2023, 05:57 PM	#4
Z K Major General 1889 Rep 5,506 Posts Drives: E90 M3, G20 M340i Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: San Francisco iTrader: (3)	Oh, and to add to this, I originally wanted to use a home stereo/theater Bluetooth DAC before finding the Tunai. Those all have line level output and excellent DACs but they are rather big and have a higher power requirement which I am not sure the USB plug under the arm rest would provide. Also, the RCA to 3.5mm and power cables would make my arm rest cubby a nest of cables. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/1Mii-Bluetoot.../dp/B0C3HKMRBS __________________ Auto Detailing Enthusiast!
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