BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing
 
Mporium BMW
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-03-2019, 06:33 AM   #1189
pbonsalb
Lieutenant General
5179
Rep
10,556
Posts

Drives: 18 F90 M5, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: New England

iTrader: (4)

I totally agree that thicker oil is usually best for track use. I’d probably run the factory spec 10W60 if my car was a track car. But my car is a street car. Probably over 90% of M3s will never see the track.
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2020, 03:40 PM   #1190
Assimilator1
Major
Assimilator1's Avatar
United Kingdom
577
Rep
1,006
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 e92 08 & 330d e90 10
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: UK, Surrey

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2010 BMW 330d  [8.00]
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
What's your (& other people too) guess as to why BMW stipulate 10w/60?
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2020, 06:45 PM   #1191
Z K
Major General
Z K's Avatar
1886
Rep
5,504
Posts

Drives: E90 M3, G20 M340i
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assimilator1 View Post
What's your (& other people too) guess as to why BMW stipulate 10w/60?
This was mentioned much earlier in this thread but BMW most likely used 10w60 because of the long oil change interval they were doing at the time the M3 was introduced (15,000 mile oil changes). They also do it because they want the engine to hold up to high track temperatures that the engines get exposed to.

But if you are not doing either, I don't see why you couldn't run a thinner oil for every day use.
__________________
Auto Detailing Enthusiast!
Appreciate 3
ccdre337.00
T!m3368.00
      01-17-2020, 01:22 AM   #1192
Assimilator1
Major
Assimilator1's Avatar
United Kingdom
577
Rep
1,006
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 e92 08 & 330d e90 10
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: UK, Surrey

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2010 BMW 330d  [8.00]
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
Afraid I haven't got time to read the whole thread .

Yea I guess the track use point makes some sense, but I don't really see how the change interval can be a reason seeing as plenty of 0/5w-30/40 oils can do 15k OCI.
BMW not doing 15k changes anymore?
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2020, 09:06 PM   #1193
Foolclear
Enlisted Member
6
Rep
48
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: philly

iTrader: (1)

Here is the result for running 0w 40 on track
Enjoy!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27DSRczeocI
Appreciate 0
      04-09-2020, 07:51 AM   #1194
T!m3
BMW maniac!
T!m3's Avatar
No_Country
368
Rep
873
Posts

Drives: ///M3 e92
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: EU

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foolclear View Post
Here is the result for running 0w 40 on track
Enjoy!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27DSRczeocI
But at first. How long are you on 0-40?
I mean it can be like that for the most time you was using 10-60 and what happen after switching to 0-40 it's just coincidence
Appreciate 0
      04-09-2020, 08:01 AM   #1195
RomanK
Private First Class
Russia
46
Rep
135
Posts

Drives: M3 Coupe E92 DCT
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: St. Petersburg

iTrader: (0)

What is the oil was? Mobil 1?
How long are you on 0-40?
How long ago you have changed your rod bearings?
Which temp was on the video?
Appreciate 0
      04-09-2020, 10:12 AM   #1196
pbonsalb
Lieutenant General
5179
Rep
10,556
Posts

Drives: 18 F90 M5, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: New England

iTrader: (4)

I probably would not run 0W40 on the track. But I think the person who posted the video and claimed the engine failure was due to 0W40 is probably just trying to make a joke since there is no specific information.

On the street, I have run mostly 0W40 since 2014, over 40,000 miles. Once or twice I ran 5W40 and once I ran 5W50. The range of ambient temperatures in my area is -20F to 100F. If I lived in an area that was always hot, I would probably use a thicker oil.
Appreciate 1
tsk941516.00
      04-12-2020, 08:06 AM   #1197
Assimilator1
Major
Assimilator1's Avatar
United Kingdom
577
Rep
1,006
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 e92 08 & 330d e90 10
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: UK, Surrey

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2010 BMW 330d  [8.00]
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
Err, what's that in real temperature?
Hmm, -29C to 38C, bloody hell that's a wide range of extremes!

And yea I was thinking that video was posted as a joke too .

Last edited by Assimilator1; 10-03-2020 at 12:12 PM..
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2020, 09:04 PM   #1198
Foolclear
Enlisted Member
6
Rep
48
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: philly

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanK View Post
What is the oil was? Mobil 1?
How long are you on 0-40?
How long ago you have changed your rod bearings?
Which temp was on the video?
I was on Mobil 1 40 for about 1 year on street driving then decided it was time to take it to the track. I changed the oil before track day with mobil 0w 40 and the weird thing was when i went to start it after the oil change i heard metal on metal sound. i was like wtf, but brushed it off as my imagination oh how wrong i was. THis was original rods about 40k miles when it blew. That day on track the temperture was 50-55 degrees and i havn't driven this car on track for a few years.
Appreciate 0
      06-09-2020, 01:11 PM   #1199
aus
Major General
United_States
890
Rep
9,031
Posts

Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

iTrader: (10)

I've run 0W40 on track many times on stock bearings but I prefer to mix in some 15W50 from Walmart. I now run 5 quarts of 15W50 with 4 quarts 0W40 after BE Bearings.
Will switch to 5W50 when it's on sale at NAPA.

EVERYONE should be using the Mobil 1 quarterly rebate too.
.
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
Appreciate 0
      06-09-2020, 01:20 PM   #1200
pbonsalb
Lieutenant General
5179
Rep
10,556
Posts

Drives: 18 F90 M5, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: New England

iTrader: (4)

Probably foolclear’s motor already had issues unrelated to the use of 0W40. It’s factory fill oil for the 911 GT3, another high revving motor.
Appreciate 2
T!m3368.00
      06-10-2020, 01:28 PM   #1201
GeorgeA
Major
GeorgeA's Avatar
United_States
755
Rep
1,408
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (3)

I don't think 0w40 is a good idea for track use. Not sure why people aren't just sticking to 10w60, the car was designed for it. That's what I've been running and no issues/reason to change.
Appreciate 2
tsk941516.00
      06-16-2020, 12:37 PM   #1202
Richbot
Major General
2744
Rep
5,479
Posts

Drives: Jerez Black E90
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: STL

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Probably foolclear’s motor already had issues unrelated to the use of 0W40. It’s factory fill oil for the 911 GT3, another high revving motor.
Mobil 1 is factory fill on my 6000rpm turbo 5.5l AMG engine too, I use the (lighter than factory, slightly) 0w40 on it. It barely uses any oil between 5,000 mile changes. Yet my S65 used more than a quart every 5k, even when I tried it down in the "low-mileage" range similar the amount of mileage the benz has on it now. They take about the same amount of oil per change, 8.5ish. And the benz has a dipstick, amazingly

It's almost like different engines are different. I doubt my engine would stop consuming Mobil 1 if I punched it out to 5.5 liters and hung two turbos off the side, but you never know

I don't run this stuff on my S65 anymore because the consumption is so bad compared to other oils. It's obviously getting past the rings or otherwise being consumed at a higher rate, for whatever reason, which I don't like, because I'd rather burn gasoline
__________________

Last edited by Richbot; 06-16-2020 at 02:48 PM..
Appreciate 1
      06-16-2020, 03:53 PM   #1203
pbonsalb
Lieutenant General
5179
Rep
10,556
Posts

Drives: 18 F90 M5, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: New England

iTrader: (4)

Could be ring seal on the pistons is looser on the S65 and thick oil reduces consumption. I consume oil with 0W40 but consumed 10W60 as well. I should try measuring with 0W40, 5W50 and 10W60 but I don’t drive enough so it might take me 2 years to do 3 5000 mile changes.
Appreciate 0
      09-06-2020, 01:39 PM   #1204
SilverSlug
Hey, where have you been all my life?
SilverSlug's Avatar
United_States
680
Rep
1,401
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Just back home from my BMW dealer and had a oil change with Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10W60 .
And you was right about the clear answers,they know nothing about LL-01 oils and 0W40 or 5W40 ,and i can tell you this is a very good BMW dealer !
BTW...i was asking also about the bearing faillures and they were very surprised to hear the horror stories about this,i had also send them with Email the pics of the bad and used bearings posted on this forum from our S65 engine and the reaction was.....wow....jesus !
This was the first time that they saw something like this,and than they open their database to look about bearing cases here in Belgium ...
The result was.. 0 cases..Puma system the same...0 cases ?!?!
With my BMW dealer are 6 ///M3's and also in maintenance program and there is one with 92,000 KM on the clock and also with o problems....
Conclusion....
The bearing problem is now even a bigger mystery to me...
The costs for oil change today in Belgium was...470 Euro's and in USD...mmmm....$ 634 USD

If a dealer hasn’t heard about the rod bearing issue, I wouldn’t classify them as a “very good dealer”

You should also ask them about the throttle actuator issue.
Appreciate 1
      10-10-2020, 12:07 AM   #1205
kyrix1st
Colonel
kyrix1st's Avatar
2351
Rep
2,359
Posts

Drives: G87 M2; E92M3 MT&DCT; M3 euro
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: nyc

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2004 BMW Z4  [0.00]
Anyone tried mixing M1 15w50 and 0w40?
__________________
Pass me if you can.
Appreciate 0
      10-10-2020, 06:43 AM   #1206
pbonsalb
Lieutenant General
5179
Rep
10,556
Posts

Drives: 18 F90 M5, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: New England

iTrader: (4)

Sure. I mix 0W40 with 15W50 or with 5W50 if I have some of the thicker oil. During the last couple of years I have found good sales and have been buying it regularly. I don’t have any data or documented results though. I simply use 3L of the thicker oil with 6L of the 0W40. I also did a full change with 5W50 last year.
Appreciate 0
      10-18-2020, 01:30 PM   #1207
aus
Major General
United_States
890
Rep
9,031
Posts

Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Anyone tried mixing M1 15w50 and 0w40?
Yep. Been mixing them for years. Blackstone reports are all good at 7,500 intervals.
.
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2020, 08:06 PM   #1208
kyrix1st
Colonel
kyrix1st's Avatar
2351
Rep
2,359
Posts

Drives: G87 M2; E92M3 MT&DCT; M3 euro
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: nyc

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2004 BMW Z4  [0.00]
My final verdict on oil viscosity is at 25-30C ambient temperature, 10w60 likely has nearly the same viscosity as mobil 1 0w40 at around 0C, so during summer time I would use 10w60 with the correct HTHS of 5.2. During the winter however, no one is really going to put high shear stress on these oils unless you are rallying your car so 0w40 makes sense in terms of oil flow for protection.
If you are running 0w40 in the winter for oil flow purpose you should have no problem using 10w60 in the summer because the results will be similar. (consider two exponential curves each named engine protection and oil viscosity and there exists an optimum where a thin oil&low HTHS loses out to a thick oil&high HTHS) For the record, engine load gets substantially higher after 6000 rpm so I would not rev out the engine too much without the engine oil with correct HTHS.

These engines are designed to run 120C when driven hard and that has little to do with bearing clearance but more has to do with heat efficiency around which the engine was designed (a stable, higher temp engine is generally more power efficient- look at F1 engines exhaust temperature) so 10w60 is the right choice for warmer times of the year.
__________________
Pass me if you can.

Last edited by kyrix1st; 10-19-2020 at 08:17 PM..
Appreciate 2
      11-20-2020, 08:11 AM   #1209
mjvalenz
Enlisted Member
mjvalenz's Avatar
5
Rep
36
Posts

Drives: E92 M3 BMW
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Tampa, Florida

iTrader: (0)

following

Following feedback to comments
Appreciate 0
      12-15-2020, 12:26 PM   #1210
Z K
Major General
Z K's Avatar
1886
Rep
5,504
Posts

Drives: E90 M3, G20 M340i
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assimilator1 View Post
Afraid I haven't got time to read the whole thread .

Yea I guess the track use point makes some sense, but I don't really see how the change interval can be a reason seeing as plenty of 0/5w-30/40 oils can do 15k OCI.
BMW not doing 15k changes anymore?
The 10w60 shears down to a 30-40 weight towards the end of the 15k service interval. BMW has moved to a 10k mile interval on most cars now.

Another reason some like to run the 0w40 is to reduce wear on the rod bearings. The original rod bearings have a very tight clearance and some feel the 0w40 does a better job squeezing in and lubricating the bearings.
__________________
Auto Detailing Enthusiast!
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:36 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST