Track forum general chit chat.

[kayha12]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

Probably not. I am coming the weekend before with Chin to meet up with some friends from Texas.

The car ran well at Mid Ohio National Championships. I plan to run more Mid Atlantic events next year.

Congrats man! I should’ve taken advantage of going out to nationals this year, heard it’ll be out towards the west coast next year haha

[kayha12]

Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts

I appreciate the consideration. What is your suspension setup?

Up front, 18x10.5" ET25 is slightly too high of an offset, especially if your goal is to run 295 Hoo Hoo's. You'll end up running spacers for added inner clearance.

18x10.5" ET22 has 3mm of extra inner clearance, which allows most 275 and 285 compounds to fit without spacers as long as you have compliant suspension. Wider 295's will likely need 5mm spacers. We offer 18x10.5" ET22 in our SM-10 and FL-5 flow formed designs, as well as our all-new ARC-8R and EC-7R forged wheels.

- Ryan

Thanks for that Ryan - trust me, it’s not an easy decision to move on from apex as I’ve ran them both on my m3 (2 sets of 18x10 arc8) and my Subaru before I sold her (17x9 arc8)

I’m just considering other options within similar budgets and I have a few friends running the Konigs on the track so I believe their build quality is right in line with apex flow form series

I’m on kw clubsports and planning to remove the front helper springs to gain some inner clearance there. I believe Jens who I’m grabbing those Hoosiers from ran that same setup before and I believe he’s on the 10.5 arc8s and is now on MCS’s

[ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by kayha12

Thanks for that Ryan - trust me, it’s not an easy decision to move on from apex as I’ve ran them both on my m3 (2 sets of 18x10 arc8) and my Subaru before I sold her (17x9 arc8)

I’m just considering other options within similar budgets and I have a few friends running the Konigs on the track so I believe their build quality is right in line with apex flow form series

I’m on kw clubsports and planning to remove the front helper springs to gain some inner clearance there. I believe Jens who I’m grabbing those Hoosiers from ran that same setup before and I believe he’s on the 10.5 arc8s and is now on MCS’s

We greatly appreciate the support over the years. Hopefully, things like our customer support, 50% replacement program, and expanding product line (forged wheels) earn you back

If 18x10.5" wheels with 295/30-18 tires is the goal:

• The ideal front suspension setup consists of 5" linear main springs and no helpers/tenders. This limits stack height, allowing you to raise the lower spring perch above the front tires. Suspensions like JRZ and MCS are the easiest to work with (especially since you can spec them from the get-go with your desired spring lengths and rates), but many KW CS owners have removed the helpers and swapped out the main springs to make things work.

• The ideal wheel offset range is ET18 - ET22 (which is why I lowered our offset from ET27 to ET22 with the introduction of the newer SM-10 & FL-5 flow formed wheels, as the new ARC-8R and EC-7R forged wheels).

Add a healthy amount of negative camber (which you'll want anyway for performance and tire longevity) to clear the front fender arches and you're on your way

- Ryan

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts

We greatly appreciate the support over the years. Hopefully, things like our customer support, 50% replacement program, and expanding product line (forged wheels) earn you back

If 18x10.5" wheels with 295/30-18 tires is the goal:

• The ideal front suspension setup consists of 5" linear main springs and no helpers/tenders. This limits stack height, allowing you to raise the lower spring perch above the front tires. Suspensions like JRZ and MCS are the easiest to work with (especially since you can spec them from the get-go with your desired spring lengths and rates), but many KW CS owners have removed the helpers and swapped out the main springs to make things work.

• The ideal wheel offset range is ET18 - ET22 (which is why I lowered our offset from ET27 to ET22 with the introduction of the newer SM-10 & FL-5 flow formed wheels, as the new ARC-8R and EC-7R forged wheels).

Add a healthy amount of negative camber (which you'll want anyway for performance and tire longevity) to clear the front fender arches and you're on your way

- Ryan

I'm still waiting for you to tell me how I can fit 11et44 square on my M3 F80!

[slicer]

Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts

We greatly appreciate the support over the years. Hopefully, things like our customer support, 50% replacement program, and expanding product line (forged wheels) earn you back

If 18x10.5" wheels with 295/30-18 tires is the goal:

• The ideal front suspension setup consists of 5" linear main springs and no helpers/tenders. This limits stack height, allowing you to raise the lower spring perch above the front tires. Suspensions like JRZ and MCS are the easiest to work with (especially since you can spec them from the get-go with your desired spring lengths and rates), but many KW CS owners have removed the helpers and swapped out the main springs to make things work.

• The ideal wheel offset range is ET18 - ET22 (which is why I lowered our offset from ET27 to ET22 with the introduction of the newer SM-10 & FL-5 flow formed wheels, as the new ARC-8R and EC-7R forged wheels).

Add a healthy amount of negative camber (which you'll want anyway for performance and tire longevity) to clear the front fender arches and you're on your way

- Ryan

You can add Öhlins TTX to your list of suspension that can accommodate wide front wheels/tires

-6" main spring
-No helper
-Full travel (more than 5" spring on the other kits)
-Spring preloaded - therefore no need for helper
-Lower mounting point to car hub/knuckle is adjustable- therefore ride height can be adjusted in both spring perch and lower mount point.

I have been able to fit:
10.5et25 and 11 et18 with 295/30/18 tires

[slicer]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I'm still waiting for you to tell me how I can fit 11et44 square on my M3 F80!

25mm front spacer and suspension with max inner clearance

[ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by slicer

You can add Öhlins TTX to your list of suspension that can accommodate wide front wheels/tires

-6" main spring
-No helper
-Full travel (more than 5" spring on the other kits)
-Spring preloaded - therefore no need for helper
-Lower mounting point to car hub/knuckle is adjustable- therefore ride height can be adjusted in both spring perch and lower mount point.

I have been able to fit:
10.5et25 and 11 et18 with 295/30/18 tires

Good info on the TTX system, Brett.

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I'm still waiting for you to tell me how I can fit 11et44 square on my M3 F80!

Shoot, you're right! My apologies for letting that slip.

For F8X M track junkies and club racers looking to push the limits beyond the standard 18x10" ET25 rotatable square fitment, and 18x10" ET25 front / 18x11" ET44 rear staggered fitment, there are a few 10.5" and 11" square fitments available. Each has pros and cons, and this topic has come up often enough over the last few years that we'll be writing a more detailed article beyond what is already available on our F8X M chassis specific fitment guide.

Keep in mind, the height/diameter of the front tire is a major limiting factor here. Of the few F80 drivers running aggressive 18x11" square fitments, most are running 295/30-18, 295/35-18, or 305/645-18 Pirelli PWC DH tires (which is more like a 305/30-18). Many would like to run a DOT approved 305/35-18 tire such as a Nitto NT01, but they would rub significantly up front upon hard cornering, etc.

Here is a copy and paste from another thread I replied to:

---------------------

Fitting an 18x11" Square Setup

For most enthusiasts, 18x10" ET25 front, 18x11" ET44 rear staggered fitment is most effective for both street and track duty. Pair these with 275/35-18 tires up front and 305-35-18 tires in the rear respectively and you have a great bolt-on fitment. With that said, many of our clients are serious track nuts or compete W2W on some level. Not only are they looking to maximize grip, but they would like a square fitment for a well-balanced chassis with the ability to rotate wheels and tires on all four corners.

In order to rotate effectively, the wheel specifications needed to be cohesive from front to rear. This means that either the front or rear will need some level of "work" to properly fit an 11" square fitment.

Option 1: Front & Rear: 18x11 ET44

The 18x11" ET44 was specifically designed for the rear of the F8X chassis, so naturally this is a direct fit out back. When we install these up front however, thick spacers are required for proper strut clearance. Breizh Motorsport's chose to go this route and installed 25mm spacers to clear their suspension. Keep in mind, spacer thickness will depend on the front tire brand and suspension type, as not all are created equal. An 11" ET44 wheel paired with a 25mm spacer gives us an effective offset of ET19, so this ends up being quite an aggressive fitment on the outside/fender side and a healthy amount of negative camber will be required to bring the top of the tire in under the front fenders. Since you will (should) only find this type of fitment in the hands of hardcore track junkies and club racers, aggressive negative camber specs are par for the course and not a limiting factor.










Option 2: Front & Rear: 18x11 ET25

The 18x11" ET25 was specifically designed for the rear of the E9X M3, and in this scenario it is better suited for the front end of the F80 as the lower offset supplies much more inner strut clearance. Naturally, this transfers the focus to the rear of the car, where the 18x11" ET25 is very aggressive (28mm more aggressive then the factory 19x10" ET40 rear wheels). In an effort for these to work when the car is put through its paces on the race track, rear fender modifications will likely need to be performed in the form of "pulling/re-shaping" in combination with additional negative camber. Brett Strom from Strom Motorsports is well versed in this arena and no stranger to modifying factory fenders, therefore he chose to go this route. In some cases we have reports of customers (MasterP) using this square fitment with 305/645-18 Pirelli PWC DH tires without needing to modify the rear fenders, however adding -2 degrees or more of camber in the rear was still necessary.





In conclusion, neither of these 11" square fitments are considered "bolt-on fitments" and should only be reserved for serious track/race cars. It is important to note that regardless of which offset you choose to use, compliant track oriented suspension equipped with short linear springs and a spring perch location above the front tires will be required to maximize inner clearance to the strut.

-------------------

Then you have a 18x10.5" rotatable square fitment option that is a bit easier to implement.

Front & Rear 18x10.5 ET40
305/645-18 Pirelli DH slicks
20mm front spacers








- Ryan

[PrimeBMW]

Custom brake ducts. There will probably be a little adjusting once the wheels are put on.

[dparm]

For my Texas peeps (and since I know many of you are P-car owners too), does anyone recognize this car? I've got a friend in Chicago looking to buy it.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...ack-build.html
https://flickr.com/photos/89639302@N...53584353/page1

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

Custom brake ducts. There will probably be a little adjusting once the wheels are put on.

those look great. i particularly like the little lip on the receiving end of the backing plate. did you custom make that, or is that a sourced part?

[XCUSE_M3]

Originally Posted by kayha12

Wanted to create a thread but I figure I ask you guys first -

Anyone running the Konig Hypergrams 18x10.5 +25? 2mm offset different from the apex's which is my other option

Getting her ready to rock Jens 295/30/18 hoosier scrubs since he keeps winning new tires

Those look like a great price! Do you know if they are hub centric? They don't look to be with BMW. I hope so cause for 260$ a wheel thats awesome, just don't wanna deal with rings.

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

those look great. i particularly like the little lip on the receiving end of the backing plate. did you custom make that, or is that a sourced part?

AR Motorsports: All parts are custom fabricated from stock material. I'm impressed with the work also!

[Grillpt]

Did my first event in the M this weekend with NASA NE at WGI. Car performed really well, other then loads of brake shudder. I was really surprised as to how neutral is was on track. Just need seat time to get used to it and the amount of grip available.

Looking forward to Thunderbolt in two weeks. No intimidating blue Armco, and plenty of run off.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Grillpt

Did my first event in the M this weekend with NASA NE at WGI. Car performed really well, other then loads of brake shudder. I was really surprised as to how neutral is was on track. Just need seat time to get used to it and the amount of grip available.

Looking forward to Thunderbolt in two weeks. No intimidating blue Armco, and plenty of run off.

cool, you were with another 2 forum people

The car behaves so nicely on the track. It's definitely the hallmark of an M3

[Grillpt]

I was the moving chicane in the instructor group. lol

Grouping Instructors and 4 together didn't help. Hard to work on yourself when you're managing your mirrors the whole time.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by Grillpt

I was the moving chicane in the instructor group. lol

Grouping Instructors and 4 together didn't help. Hard to work on yourself when you're managing your mirrors the whole time.

I was there too, saw quite a few e9x's. WGI is the first track I've felt the E90 really needs more power, turn 7 in particular. My brakes just about held up, it was the 4th and 5th day on my front PFC 11's so they were completely toast by the end. I think its a track which would definitely benefit from having a BBK. Such an epic circuit (weird there was no shop to even buy a coffee though..), well worth the 4 1/2 hour drive will be hitting it as many times as I can next year!

[Grillpt]

There's a concession stand along an access road, just below where the fuels pumps are. It's kind of hidden. They have breakfast and lunch food available there too.

The toe is my favorite part of the track. You can brake so late and so hard there since you're going into a banked uphill corner.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by Grillpt

There's a concession stand along an access road, just below where the fuels pumps are. It's kind of hidden. They have breakfast and lunch food available there too.

The toe is my favorite part of the track. You can brake so late and so hard there since you're going into a banked uphill corner.

It's a fun corner for sure. A Mini Cooper in one of the other groups tried the late brake there, skipped straight up the hill into the barrier.

[kayha12]

Originally Posted by XCUSE_M3

Those look like a great price! Do you know if they are hub centric? They don't look to be with BMW. I hope so cause for 260$ a wheel thats awesome, just don't wanna deal with rings.

Looks like you would need a ring, I believe our hubs are like 72.x and these are 73.1 so they do make rings to size it

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Montaver

It's a fun corner for sure. A Mini Cooper in one of the other groups tried the late brake there, skipped straight up the hill into the barrier.

no risk no reward!

[dparm]

If anyone is looking for coaching this weekend in TX, Scott told me he's free Friday and Sunday. I think he's already down at COTA for Saturday. Just FYI

[SYT_Shadow]

So excited Bimmerworld finally released their flow formed offerings.

I took these pics a couple weeks ago at VIR where they first showed them off!