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      07-07-2016, 10:34 AM   #67
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Training and education are bs. This is a high pressure situation. Cops first duty is to protect himself and other innocents. They were responding to a call with a huge dude who they were told had pulled a hun, was resisting, and was armed. Idky people think it's ok to resist police. If a cop says get down, get down. If he says stop resisting stop resisting. It's simple. It seems a higher percentage in the poor and black community don't get that. The result is unfortunate stuff like this. The guy deserved 5 yrs in prison. The cops deserved a clean arrest. Both loose.
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      07-07-2016, 10:38 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Verbiage View Post
It comes down to the fear. The fear and uncertainty are the driving factors. I've never given one an excuse to search me, my vehicle, or the like. I respect law enforcement and the duties they represent, and understand that they are also humans with families.


People are fucking hopeless.
I don't understand how the guy in MN told the officer he was licensed to carry and then it still gets to that point.

Ok, the officer told him not to reach. As the driver, why the fuck would you even look at him wrong, let alone reach for your waist after being told not to?

As the officer, how much of a hair trigger do you need to have that in the time it takes you to unholster your weapon you haven't barked "DON'T REACH!" like 17 times before firing.

Ugh this whole situation sucks.
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      07-07-2016, 10:40 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Training and education are bs. This is a high pressure situation. Cops first duty is to protect himself and other innocents. They were responding to a call with a huge dude who they were told had pulled a hun, was resisting, and was armed. Idky people think it's ok to resist police. If a cop says get down, get down. If he says stop resisting stop resisting. It's simple. It seems a higher percentage in the poor and black community don't get that. The result is unfortunate stuff like this. The guy deserved 5 yrs in prison. The cops deserved a clean arrest. Both loose.
This.


I don't understand where the unlimited belligerence comes from when dealing with people who can (and most likely will) empty an entire clip into your lifeless body to protect themselves, with or without cause. And let's face it, in these past situations, "themselves" were the only "innocents" the needed protecting at that given time.


It's a cycle. I understand your stance on training and education, but you are clearly faced with a situation where both parties are wrong, 100% of the time in these situations. Not putting excessive blame on ignorant minorities, or white law enforcement officers. However, if it comes down to something as simple as who interacts with certain demographics within the neighborhoods where law enforcement is present, then that is better than doing the alternative, which will continue to breed these situations.


Lose-lose, indeed.
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      07-07-2016, 10:43 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by RJ_ View Post
I don't understand how the guy in MN told the officer he was licensed to carry and then it still gets to that point.

Ok, the officer told him not to reach. As the driver, why the fuck would you even look at him wrong, let alone reach for your waist after being told not to?

As the officer, how much of a hair trigger do you need to have that in the time it takes you to unholster your weapon you haven't barked "DON'T REACH!" like 17 times before firing.

Ugh this whole situation sucks.
Dude feared for his fucking life, so he shot him to death.
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      07-07-2016, 10:43 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Verbiage View Post
I work with two black dudes in my department, one of which is nearing retirement age. We listened to a radio special this morning on it, and when it was done he goes, "Imma tell you like I told my son; if the police stop you, don't do a got damn thing. Don't do shit. Don't even fucking move". And to a degree, I had to agree with him.


I usually get stopped and cops have been very friendly; they've always asked about my cars, mods, and let me off with warnings (no front plate, ride height, etc). But this is a different arena, altogether.
The older gentleman is correct. This is how you handle yourself when interacting with police. When i get pulled over, i put all my windows down, open the sunroof. Then i place my wallet and POI on the dash above my instrument cluster. Then when the officer starts to walk up to my vehicle, i put my right hand through the sunroof, left hand through the window and lock my fingers together. My hands area always in sight no matter what they ask me to do or get for them. More often than not, i'm let off with a warning. They know that what i'm doing is solely to make them more comfortable when doing their job. Respect given, respect earned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verbiage View Post
It comes down to the fear. The fear and uncertainty are the driving factors. I've never given one an excuse to search me, my vehicle, or the like. I respect law enforcement and the duties they represent, and understand that they are also humans with families.


People are fucking hopeless.
Training for police officers is a real issue. The majority of their training focuses on what to do when force is necessary. They are seldom trained one how to deescalate situations without the use of force. The answer is to restrain, which is logical. But when you're talking to someone who is certain the only reason they are being detained, questioned, etc... is due to their skin color, cooperation isn't usually a top priority. It's a bad combination. Police training will only do so much. Parental instruction to children on how to interact with police is also necessary.

A few weeks ago my parents were out of town. The alarm went off at their house while my handicap brother and his wife live there, they were not at home with this happen. My mom asked me to go to the house to check on things. When i got there a police officer had responded to the alarm and was not in his vehicle. I opened the garage and went inside. When i got to the back door, all glass, he saw me. You better believe my hands were already up in the air when he put eyes on me. I startled him to where his hand, already with gun in it, was half way raised up at me. When i opened the door, i told him who i was. I asked if he wanted to see my ID and didn't move until he said yes. I told him it's in my front left pocket before i reached for it. He holstered his weapon and took my ID. Once he said he was going to walk the house with me to clear it, i told him i was carrying a weapon on my right hip and since i already had my wallet out, i gave him my CCP.

My only point with that anecdote is that my actions were very different at my parents house than they are when i get pulled over. Maybe realizing that different scenarios warrant different behavior is too much to ask for the general public, i don't know. But while additional training for police is part of the equation, it's not the sole answer.

The MN incident is tragic. I'm glad my state doesn't require me to announce that i'm carrying to an officer. But if it did, i would announce and then tell the officer that i will only comply with specific orders with regards to hand movements. For me, i don't want to get shot. So i'm going to make sure i don't do anything that looks suspicious. No rapid moments, no continuing to move when told to stop, no hiding my hands, etc....
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      07-07-2016, 10:47 AM   #72
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How about stop letting little pussy's on the force and maybe then they wont be afraid of every black man they approach.
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      07-07-2016, 10:52 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
The older gentleman is correct. This is how you handle yourself when interacting with police. When i get pulled over, i put all my windows down, open the sunroof. Then i place my wallet and POI on the dash above my instrument cluster. Then when the officer starts to walk up to my vehicle, i put my right hand through the sunroof, left hand through the window and lock my fingers together. My hands area always in sight no matter what they ask me to do or get for them. More often than not, i'm let off with a warning. They know that what i'm doing is solely to make them more comfortable when doing their job. Respect given, respect earned.

Training for police officers is a real issue. The majority of their training focuses on what to do when force is necessary. They are seldom trained one how to deescalate situations without the use of force. The answer is to restrain, which is logical. But when you're talking to someone who is certain the only reason they are being detained, questioned, etc... is due to their skin color, cooperation isn't usually a top priority. It's a bad combination. Police training will only do so much. Parental instruction to children on how to interact with police is also necessary.

A few weeks ago my parents were out of town. The alarm went off at their house while my handicap brother and his wife live there, they were not at home with this happen. My mom asked me to go to the house to check on things. When i got there a police officer had responded to the alarm and was not in his vehicle. I opened the garage and went inside. When i got to the back door, all glass, he saw me. You better believe my hands were already up in the air when he put eyes on me. I startled him to where his hand, already with gun in it, was half way raised up at me. When i opened the door, i told him who i was. I asked if he wanted to see my ID and didn't move until he said yes. I told him it's in my front left pocket before i reached for it. He holstered his weapon and took my ID. Once he said he was going to walk the house with me to clear it, i told him i was carrying a weapon on my right hip and since i already had my wallet out, i gave him my CCP.

My only point with that anecdote is that my actions were very different at my parents house than they are when i get pulled over. Maybe realizing that different scenarios warrant different behavior is too much to ask for the general public, i don't know. But while additional training for police is part of the equation, it's not the sole answer.

The MN incident is tragic. I'm glad my state doesn't require me to announce that i'm carrying to an officer. But if it did, i would announce and then tell the officer that i will only comply with specific orders with regards to hand movements. For me, i don't want to get shot. So i'm going to make sure i don't do anything that looks suspicious. No rapid moments, no continuing to move when told to stop, no hiding my hands, etc....
This was great. Thanks for your input, man.

The portion about education on how to deal with law enforcement, I feel, is very critical. The majority of the people I grew up with (blacks and Hispanics) have turned out to be unproductive members of society with a personal vendetta against law enforcement. I've always prided myself in being respectful and understanding that at the end of the day, I can lose my life over a misunderstanding or a misread when interacting with the police. Of course, over time this notion has been underscored given the recent events. Mainly Baltimore.

Baltimore was destroyed by its inhabitants because of a rage-filled situation. There are no therapy sessions to cure it. There is just society, an ideology, and a stereotype. When you say that you don't want to get shot, that's the first thing that comes to mind. Many of the black youth carry an air of disrespect, of invincibility, and of anger, all of which when coupled with interactions with an aggressive white cop do not lead to good end results.

I'm not saying I know the exact answer to fix the problem, but I do know what is causing it.
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      07-07-2016, 10:54 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Training and education are bs. This is a high pressure situation. Cops first duty is to protect himself and other innocents. They were responding to a call with a huge dude who they were told had pulled a hun, was resisting, and was armed. Idky people think it's ok to resist police. If a cop says get down, get down. If he says stop resisting stop resisting. It's simple. It seems a higher percentage in the poor and black community don't get that. The result is unfortunate stuff like this. The guy deserved 5 yrs in prison. The cops deserved a clean arrest. Both loose.
The reason for training is to make responding in high-pressure situations calm, automatic, and reasoned. Not panicked.

Cops first duty is public safety. If they are incapable of dealing with a huge dude, training may be necessary.
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      07-07-2016, 10:54 AM   #75
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How about stop letting little pussy's on the force and maybe then they wont be afraid of every black man they approach.
Why don't you go try it for a week tough guy.
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      07-07-2016, 10:57 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
The older gentleman is correct. This is how you handle yourself when interacting with police. When i get pulled over, i put all my windows down, open the sunroof. Then i place my wallet and POI on the dash above my instrument cluster. Then when the officer starts to walk up to my vehicle, i put my right hand through the sunroof, left hand through the window and lock my fingers together. My hands area always in sight no matter what they ask me to do or get for them. More often than not, i'm let off with a warning. They know that what i'm doing is solely to make them more comfortable when doing their job. Respect given, respect earned.

Training for police officers is a real issue. The majority of their training focuses on what to do when force is necessary. They are seldom trained one how to deescalate situations without the use of force. The answer is to restrain, which is logical. But when you're talking to someone who is certain the only reason they are being detained, questioned, etc... is due to their skin color, cooperation isn't usually a top priority. It's a bad combination. Police training will only do so much. Parental instruction to children on how to interact with police is also necessary.

A few weeks ago my parents were out of town. The alarm went off at their house while my handicap brother and his wife live there, they were not at home with this happen. My mom asked me to go to the house to check on things. When i got there a police officer had responded to the alarm and was not in his vehicle. I opened the garage and went inside. When i got to the back door, all glass, he saw me. You better believe my hands were already up in the air when he put eyes on me. I startled him to where his hand, already with gun in it, was half way raised up at me. When i opened the door, i told him who i was. I asked if he wanted to see my ID and didn't move until he said yes. I told him it's in my front left pocket before i reached for it. He holstered his weapon and took my ID. Once he said he was going to walk the house with me to clear it, i told him i was carrying a weapon on my right hip and since i already had my wallet out, i gave him my CCP.

My only point with that anecdote is that my actions were very different at my parents house than they are when i get pulled over. Maybe realizing that different scenarios warrant different behavior is too much to ask for the general public, i don't know. But while additional training for police is part of the equation, it's not the sole answer.

The MN incident is tragic. I'm glad my state doesn't require me to announce that i'm carrying to an officer. But if it did, i would announce and then tell the officer that i will only comply with specific orders with regards to hand movements. For me, i don't want to get shot. So i'm going to make sure i don't do anything that looks suspicious. No rapid moments, no continuing to move when told to stop, no hiding my hands, etc....

The emboldened is the real issue. The mindset is no longer keeping the peace but now enforcement of the law.
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      07-07-2016, 11:02 AM   #77
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Anyone and I mean anyone who thinks a cop wants to pull his weapon and end someone's life is f'ng stupid. I hate using the word stupid anytime but it fits here.

I am not a cop lover by any means either.
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      07-07-2016, 11:05 AM   #78
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Anyone and I mean anyone who thinks a cop wants to pull his weapon and end someone's life is f'ng stupid. I hate using the word stupid anytime but it fits here.
well explain 6 shots fired in one incidents and 4 shots in different incident.. trigger happy??
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      07-07-2016, 11:07 AM   #79
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well explain 6 shots fired in one incidents and 4 shots in different incident.. trigger happy??
That's what the kids are calling it, these days?
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      07-07-2016, 11:09 AM   #80
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That's what the kids are calling it, these days?
maybe its a lil old school term lol
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      07-07-2016, 11:10 AM   #81
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maybe its a lil old school term lol
Haha, nah I was just messing with you. Still works. Especially here.
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      07-07-2016, 11:11 AM   #82
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Quickly googled some stats and the police homicide rate in the US is off the charts. Despite living here i am not Canadian so have no horse int he race so to speak but the numbers are alarming. The police homicide rate in the USA in 2014 was 8 times higher than in Canada.

What the HELL is going on down there?
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      07-07-2016, 11:12 AM   #83
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well explain 6 shots fired in one incidents and 4 shots in different incident.. trigger happy??
A jury might have to answer your questions.

I can say that pulling off a single shot in explosive situations would seem rare to me. I don't have statistics or what not but adrenaline is a strong chemical.

I'm not defending anyone. I just loath the media saturating people with these tragedies before jack shit is done regarding an investigation.
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      07-07-2016, 11:13 AM   #84
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Quickly googled some stats and the police homicide rate in the US is off the charts. Despite living here i am not Canadian so have no horse int he race so to speak but the numbers are alarming. The police homicide rate in the USA in 2014 was 8 times higher than in Canada.

What the HELL is going on down there?

Apparently, some of the folks in this thread seem to know exactly what's going on. I beg to differ. There are some deep rooted problems, here.
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      07-07-2016, 11:16 AM   #85
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      07-07-2016, 11:17 AM   #86
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Apparently, some of the folks in this thread seem to know exactly what's going on. I beg to differ. There are some deep rooted problems, here.
Why don't you get off your ass and do something about it ?

Instead of robbing unsuspecting girls of their virginity on tinder?
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      07-07-2016, 11:18 AM   #87
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Why don't you get off your ass and do something about it ?

Instead of robbing unsuspecting girls of their virginity on tinder?
Lol someone's gotta do it, since you're clearly not.
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      07-07-2016, 11:21 AM   #88
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Lol someone's gotta do it, since you're clearly not.
damn right I'm not.

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