Powerchip Group Buy - Northwest Edition (that means you too, Oregon and Vancouver BC)

[pumper206]

Originally Posted by dawgdog

Very informative. Any data on power increases with Akrapovic (I have the evo on order).

I believe the Hp claims are +24HP but pleeease
Did you buy the full exhaust or just the rear end?

[dawgdog]

Originally Posted by pumper206

I believe the Hp claims are +24HP but pleeease
Did you buy the full exhaust or just the rear end?

My question was how much are the gains with Powerchip II and the full Akrapovic which is what I've ordered.

[Fen335i]

Hey Mike - Can you answer/comment on the questions I posed in the thread (below)? Thanks.

Originally Posted by Fen335i

Thanks for the info Mike. Follow-up question: What happens when the dealership service dept "re-flashes" your car? Is your ECU tune essentially wiped out then and have to be re-done?

Also - I think I read on one of these posts that if the redline is raised, the dealership will discover that as it will send a "red flag" when they run their diagnostics. Is this true? I think a lot of guys are choosing to not to raise their limiter for this reason. Can you comment on this? Do we have the choice with your software tune?

[pumper206]

Originally Posted by dawgdog

My question was how much are the gains with Powerchip II and the full Akrapovic which is what I've ordered.

If I'm not mistaken, gains should be right around +40HP. Not 100% sure tho. I'm just basing off what I remember.

[pumper206]

Originally Posted by Fen335i

Thanks for the info Mike. Follow-up question: What happens when the dealership service dept "re-flashes" your car? Is your ECU tune essentially wiped out then and have to be re-done?

Also - I think I read on one of these posts that if the redline is raised, the dealership will discover that as it will send a "red flag" when they run their diagnostics. Is this true? I think a lot of guys are choosing to not to raise their limiter for this reason. Can you comment on this? Do we have the choice with your software tune?

I talked to Mike and this is what he said regarding reflash and redline. They do charge for reflash if dealer were to reflash back to stock. Cost is $190 but the first reflash will be discounted by $90, so $100 for first reflash by powerchip w/i first 3 months. From what I understand, it is possible that the dealership could wipe out the powerchip flash but I'm not sure how common that is. I THINK usually when the dealership reflashes, they only reflash specific items on the ECU not the entire program.

In regards to the redline issue, Mike says, dealership can only see how LONG you are in redline for, not where redline is set to. And, yes, if you so wish, they can leave your speed limiter and redline alone. Mike also noted that Dinan, raises their rev limiter to 8600, if thats of any reassurance to you that raising rev limiter by a little is fairly "SAFE".

Also, I got confirmation that full Akra exhaust + tune will net you ~+40WHP. Question for all that are interested in getting in on group buy, what date would you guys potentially like to see the group buy happen???

[Fen335i]

I'm curious how the hp claims are being made... when you (or Mike) says 40hp at the wheels, what is the breakdown of hp from the exhaust mod and the actual software? My understanding is a full exhaust (catless midpipe and free flow mufflers OR HFC/xpipe w/free flow mufflers) can net you anywhere between 20-30hp on it's own (without any software). So, are you saying one is going to get 20-30hp from exhaust and then another 40 from the tune for a net of 60-70? This seems ridiculously high. My assumption is that you are saying you will net 40hp total w/software and full exhaust. So, if you are getting 20-30 out of your exhaust on it's own, than that leaves a gain of only about 10-20 out of the software. So, that means it's not that much more than any other tune out there right?

Just trying to make sense of the claims...I understand it's a good tune, just want to make sure folks understand what they're getting.

Also, if we do this are we going to have access to an independent dyno shop to do before and after runs? A buddy of mine did a similar thing w/his Mini S...a well known cutom tuner flew up to Seattle for the weekend and tuned about 15 cars at a local shop that provided a dyno. That way everyone could verify they were getting what they paid for....and left everyone with a good feeling of money well spent. It would be great if we could do the same thing here w/our M's.

[pumper206]

Originally Posted by Fen335i

I'm curious how the hp claims are being made... when you (or Mike) says 40hp at the wheels, what is the breakdown of hp from the exhaust mod and the actual software? My understanding is a full exhaust (catless midpipe and free flow mufflers OR HFC/xpipe w/free flow mufflers) can net you anywhere between 20-30hp on it's own (without any software). So, are you saying one is going to get 20-30hp from exhaust and then another 40 from the tune for a net of 60-70? This seems ridiculously high. My assumption is that you are saying you will net 40hp total w/software and full exhaust. So, if you are getting 20-30 out of your exhaust on it's own, than that leaves a gain of only about 10-20 out of the software. So, that means it's not that much more than any other tune out there right?

Just trying to make sense of the claims...I understand it's a good tune, just want to make sure folks understand what they're getting.

Also, if we do this are we going to have access to an independent dyno shop to do before and after runs? A buddy of mine did a similar thing w/his Mini S...a well known cutom tuner flew up to Seattle for the weekend and tuned about 15 cars at a local shop that provided a dyno. That way everyone could verify they were getting what they paid for....and left everyone with a good feeling of money well spent. It would be great if we could do the same thing here w/our M's.

Full exhaust + TUNE = ~40whp
Fen, you are right on. I think maybe you misread what I had typed. And, I agree with you completely on having the tuner fly up here to tune the cars at a local shop w/dyno. That would be awesome!!!
I'm not sure thats gonna happen tho. Ok, so let me start from the beginning. Me and a buddy of mine, Kev, decided we would go for the Powerchip ECU flash, as he had gone through them previously with his AMG E55, which he felt(the tune) was super solid. I called up Mike inquiring about the tune i.e. price, hp claims, benefits, differences between them and others and Mike asked if I would be interested in helping to set up a group buy here in Seattle. Of course, for the greater good and an opportunity to get our ECU's flashed with no downtime and no removal of ECU, I accepted. And so here we are, trying to get this group buy together.

From what I understand, he was only planning on sending up a laptop and having me be in charge of flashing for everyone. Maybe I misunderstood tho. He may or may not be flying up here. I would love for him to fly up here or have another Powerchip rep fly up here and help us w/the flash, as well as answer the plethora of questions we'll have for them. And, at the same time find a local shop that has a dyno so that we can dyno before and after.

Mike? Ya there buddy???? I'm totally willing to get all the info for the local shop thing if you're willing to fly up here. Ball's in your court.

[Fen335i]

Thanks Pumper206...appreciate you taking on the initiative to set this up.

Not so sure I'd be interested if they aren't providing a technician to do the software loading. I was hoping they would do before and after dynos and be able to custom tune each car to make sure they are extracting as much power out of it as possible...that's what the Mini guy did when he flew up here. I think it only cost 6-700 bucks too.

I can follow up and find out what shop they used...I know it was down south somewhere...just can't remember exactly where. A couple shop employees helped out hooking each car up to the dyno and then the guy from Cali hooked up his laptop to each car and performed the software changes. It worked out pretty slick.

[Fen335i]

here's the shop that the Mini guys used a year or two ago...down in Tacoma. The shop deals mostly with Honda tuning. But that really doesn't matter, we just need access to their dyno. It'a a Dynapak dyno. Anyone know if that is a reliable one?

http://www.speedfactoryracing.net/?page_id=71

Pumper206 - you might want to give these guys a call and see if they would be interested in hosting us? Maybe they'll cut us a break on dyno prices...

[pumper206]

Is there a target date that you guys wanna do this by??? I was thinking sometime within the next couple weeks??

[Fen335i]

sounds like folks aren't as interested anymore (by lack of response)? Never heard back from Benvo either....

[BPMSport]

Sorry been inundated with work.

Will respond tonight - I promise!

Thanks,
Mike

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by Fen335i

I'm curious how the hp claims are being made... when you (or Mike) says 40hp at the wheels, what is the breakdown of hp from the exhaust mod and the actual software? My understanding is a full exhaust (catless midpipe and free flow mufflers OR HFC/xpipe w/free flow mufflers) can net you anywhere between 20-30hp on it's own (without any software). So, are you saying one is going to get 20-30hp from exhaust and then another 40 from the tune for a net of 60-70? This seems ridiculously high. My assumption is that you are saying you will net 40hp total w/software and full exhaust. So, if you are getting 20-30 out of your exhaust on it's own, than that leaves a gain of only about 10-20 out of the software. So, that means it's not that much more than any other tune out there right?

Just trying to make sense of the claims...I understand it's a good tune, just want to make sure folks understand what they're getting.

Also, if we do this are we going to have access to an independent dyno shop to do before and after runs? A buddy of mine did a similar thing w/his Mini S...a well known cutom tuner flew up to Seattle for the weekend and tuned about 15 cars at a local shop that provided a dyno. That way everyone could verify they were getting what they paid for....and left everyone with a good feeling of money well spent. It would be great if we could do the same thing here w/our M's.

To clarify the 40 HP claim: I've seen removal of the cats + tune make anywhere from 30 - 50 WHP more.

I've seen high flow cats + tune make between 20-40 WHP more.

If you were to take either one of these cars and remove the tune (leave factory programming), there would be a 15-25 WHP loss most likely.

It's hard to give a specific number on what the increases are. Two cars can be the same model, and the same production month, yet react differently to the same tune.

We will not be able to offer such low prices if we fly up there to do the tuning on a dyno. This will add dyno operator fees, hotel stay, plane tickets, etc, not to mention not being able to take care of local customers during that time period.

Users are however encouraged to seek before/after dynos.

Our flash kit is very easy to use: Plug into the car, select the type of car, and press read. Five minutes later a file is ready to be sent to us for programming. We then send it back, you select the file, and press Write. 5 minutes later the car is tuned and ready for the road.

If we had 8+ cars we could talk along the lines of flying up there and taking care of dyno tuning the cars. But anything under that does not make the trip financially feasible.

I hope I've answered your questions - please let me know if I can answer anything additional or clarify anything I have said.

Thanks!
Mike

[BPMSport]

Here are a couple reference dynos - the first with no changes to factory cats + tune, and the second HFC's + Xpipe + Tune.

[Fen335i]

Originally Posted by Mike@Powerchip

To clarify the 40 HP claim: I've seen removal of the cats + tune make anywhere from 30 - 50 WHP more.

I've seen high flow cats + tune make between 20-40 WHP more.

If you were to take either one of these cars and remove the tune (leave factory programming), there would be a 15-25 WHP loss most likely.

It's hard to give a specific number on what the increases are. Two cars can be the same model, and the same production month, yet react differently to the same tune.

We will not be able to offer such low prices if we fly up there to do the tuning on a dyno. This will add dyno operator fees, hotel stay, plane tickets, etc, not to mention not being able to take care of local customers during that time period.

Users are however encouraged to seek before/after dynos.

Our flash kit is very easy to use: Plug into the car, select the type of car, and press read. Five minutes later a file is ready to be sent to us for programming. We then send it back, you select the file, and press Write. 5 minutes later the car is tuned and ready for the road.

If we had 8+ cars we could talk along the lines of flying up there and taking care of dyno tuning the cars. But anything under that does not make the trip financially feasible.

I hope I've answered your questions - please let me know if I can answer anything additional or clarify anything I have said.

Thanks!
Mike

Thanks for the detailed information Mike. Couple other questions (sorry for inundating your w/questions):

1) If we were able to get enough guys up here (8 or more) that wanted to go with your tune, and you were then willing to fly up here to perform the tunes, what's the benefit? My original assumption is that you could "custom tune" each car...by using before/after dyno runs you could tweak the tune of each car to maximize the gains. Is that assumption correct?

2) Re-flashing: I asked this one earlier. What happens if your car goes in for normal service and the dealer does an ECU reflash to your car? I assume there is a good chance your tune could be wiped out with their flash. How do we go about re-flashing the car? And more importantly, how much are we going to have to pay to reflash? Is there a "one time reflash for free" offer you guys have?

3) So, from your post above, it sounds like real "software gains by themselves are really in the 10-25hp range, depending on the car (as you said every car varies). So, I'm wondering what the differences are in Stage I vs Stage II?


Also, I don't think the dyno runs would be something we would expect you to pay for...the last time this was done by the Mini guys, each owner payed the dyno shop directly...the "tuner" didn't have to worry about that part. He just showed up to the shop and did his work. I think each guy paid the dyno shop 1-150 for dyno time.

[pumper206]

Originally Posted by Fen335i

Thanks for the detailed information Mike. Couple other questions (sorry for inundating your w/questions):

1) If we were able to get enough guys up here (8 or more) that wanted to go with your tune, and you were then willing to fly up here to perform the tunes, what's the benefit? My original assumption is that you could "custom tune" each car...by using before/after dyno runs you could tweak the tune of each car to maximize the gains. Is that assumption correct?

2) Re-flashing: I asked this one earlier. What happens if your car goes in for normal service and the dealer does an ECU reflash to your car? I assume there is a good chance your tune could be wiped out with their flash. How do we go about re-flashing the car? And more importantly, how much are we going to have to pay to reflash? Is there a "one time reflash for free" offer you guys have?

3) So, from your post above, it sounds like real "software gains by themselves are really in the 10-25hp range, depending on the car (as you said every car varies). So, I'm wondering what the differences are in Stage I vs Stage II?


Also, I don't think the dyno runs would be something we would expect you to pay for...the last time this was done by the Mini guys, each owner payed the dyno shop directly...the "tuner" didn't have to worry about that part. He just showed up to the shop and did his work. I think each guy paid the dyno shop 1-150 for dyno time.

Here's your answer to #2 from my previous post:
"I talked to Mike and this is what he said regarding reflash and redline. They do charge for reflash if dealer were to reflash back to stock. Cost is $190 but the first reflash will be discounted by $90, so $100 for first reflash by powerchip w/i first 3 months. From what I understand, it is possible that the dealership could wipe out the powerchip flash but I'm not sure how common that is. I THINK usually when the dealership reflashes, they only reflash specific items on the ECU not the entire program."

Also, I'm totally down to call those dyno guys and try to set something up. I think it would be cool to do it regardless of whether mike is there or not. So far, there's 4 guys that I know are for sure down to get the tune. I wanted to try to get at least 5 guys together tho.

[moog55]

i'm on the fence. i guess i really am waiting for the Stage II + Vanos tune and picking up the flash device. If we have the flash device, we should be able to flash to stock before a service and then back to our custom tune with the device and not pay the reflash fee, no?

[pumper206]

Yup, that would be correct.

[Fen335i]

hmmmm, that's enticing (the flash device). I like the idea of being able to flash back to stock before service and flashing the PC back on afterwards...

Any idea when that would be available? I heard he was testing...

[pumper206]

Originally Posted by Fen335i

hmmmm, that's enticing (the flash device). I like the idea of being able to flash back to stock before service and flashing the PC back on afterwards...

Any idea when that would be available? I heard he was testing...

Me too....Originally, I wanted to wait for the handheld flasher as well but, since I'll be getting my AKRA within the next couple weeks, I'm just gonna get the stage2 flash first and, when the handheld flasher comes out, I'll get that along w/stage2+VANOS together. Should be around 400-500 for flasher and stage2+VANOS.

[BPMSport]

1) Yes, there are tweaks that can be made to extract the most power out of the car on the dyno.

2) If there is enough interest in this Group Buy, we will offer a free reflash in the first 6 months.

3) Mainly removal of the check engine light. There are also some changes in fueling and vanos operation depending on your exhaust setup.

Flashing device release ETA is unknown. US testing has not been completed for our new vanos files.

Thanks,
Mike

Originally Posted by Fen335i

Thanks for the detailed information Mike. Couple other questions (sorry for inundating your w/questions):

1) If we were able to get enough guys up here (8 or more) that wanted to go with your tune, and you were then willing to fly up here to perform the tunes, what's the benefit? My original assumption is that you could "custom tune" each car...by using before/after dyno runs you could tweak the tune of each car to maximize the gains. Is that assumption correct?

2) Re-flashing: I asked this one earlier. What happens if your car goes in for normal service and the dealer does an ECU reflash to your car? I assume there is a good chance your tune could be wiped out with their flash. How do we go about re-flashing the car? And more importantly, how much are we going to have to pay to reflash? Is there a "one time reflash for free" offer you guys have?

3) So, from your post above, it sounds like real "software gains by themselves are really in the 10-25hp range, depending on the car (as you said every car varies). So, I'm wondering what the differences are in Stage I vs Stage II?


Also, I don't think the dyno runs would be something we would expect you to pay for...the last time this was done by the Mini guys, each owner payed the dyno shop directly...the "tuner" didn't have to worry about that part. He just showed up to the shop and did his work. I think each guy paid the dyno shop 1-150 for dyno time.

[Fen335i]

Originally Posted by Mike@Powerchip

1) Yes, there are tweaks that can be made to extract the most power out of the car on the dyno.

2) If there is enough interest in this Group Buy, we will offer a free reflash in the first 6 months.

3) Mainly removal of the check engine light. There are also some changes in fueling and vanos operation depending on your exhaust setup.

Flashing device release ETA is unknown. US testing has not been completed for our new vanos files.

Thanks,
Mike

Thanks again for the info Mike...I'm pretty interested in the tune...just not sure if we should wait for the flash device or go for it now. I'm sure you can understand that dillema. I have quite a bit left of my warranty w/free maintenance (like a lot of others here)...so there's probably a good chance my car is going to get re-flashed at the dealership during maintenance in the next couple of years. Having my PC tune erased would totally stink...and having to purchase all over again is not a pretty thought. I understand you can't make this "one time reflash for free" offer be forever though...