State Ref

[Hivand_M]

Hi Guys,

Today I was cruising in Malibu after not driving my car for over a month. Bike cop pulled me over for "loud exhaust". Long story short gave me a state ref for loud exhaust. He had no DB meter on him and I have that conversation recorded.

I just finally installed my oem x pipe with primaries deleted (stock secondaries & resonators) and evolve cat back after passing smog so putting on the stock setup again is going to be a PITA.

Anyone thats been in a similar situation have any alternatives? Or is there none?

I'm thinking if I need to quite down the car i'll just put the stock cat back on and leave the tune + primary deleted x pipe but if they're going to check smog readiness then I need to take everything off..

Thanks in advance

[robthewriter]

I'm curious how something like that would hold up if you took it to court. Cops have no actual proof your exhaust was too loud when they pulled you over, other than their own opinion. They're not rolling around with decibel meters or anything, seems like a weak case.

But if you do go to the state ref, I recommend the one who works at Fullerton College. He's chill and seems to know what he's doing, went there a few times when I was trying to BAR my m50 swapped e30.

[PYE46M3]

In the court of law officers word > yours. End of story

You don't need a decibel meter to tell a harley is brutally loud and would shatter windows either.

[roastbeef]

they aren't required to get a db reading on your car.

as you admitted, it is clearly modified. since you got ref'd, there is nothing you can do besides put your car back to oem spec and take it in for the inspection.
you can thank all these "takeover" bozos for this heat. more departments are focusing on cvc enforcement.

[chocstraw]

The only time I was threatened with a ref was from a cop who was on the takeover / street racing task force

iirc it's not the first state ref that's a big deal, it's the second one. You can easily put the stock parts back on and pass the state ref nbd but the second one, they have to impound your car and test with the parts you had on it and give the fines associated with whatever you've done, ie $5k for no cats or whatever it is. It's been a long time since I've looked it up.

Most of the time cops don't want to do all of the work involved, but if one has a bill to pay and wants the OT, it'll happen

[Hivand_M]

Yeah been reading on this and it seems a lot of people bone stock get ref'd too and it's totally up to the cops opinion on what they consider loud. I agree this has a lot to do with those morons doing takovers.

I guess since I didn't get cited for emissions they won't do a full blown smog check, only a visual and decibel test so i'm debating going as is with the valves closed and seeing if it'll pass. My only concern is if they look under the car and see my primaries missing, will they open another can of worms from that...

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by Hivand_M

Yeah been reading on this and it seems a lot of people bone stock get ref'd too and it's totally up to the cops opinion on what they consider loud. I agree this has a lot to do with those morons doing takovers.

I guess since I didn't get cited for emissions they won't do a full blown smog check, only a visual and decibel test so i'm debating going as is with the valves closed and seeing if it'll pass. My only concern is if they look under the car and see my primaries missing, will they open another can of worms from that...

Definitely do not go with your car as it is. Put it back to stock. It’s like a more rigorous smog check. Lol

[Maxroach]

Sherrifs and CHP has a jurisdiction if they suspect your car to be modified. Thats per a Sherrif that I talked to in a Cars and Coffee meet, and he said that they don't do any inspection now before handling you your violation ticket.

if you will say/reason that its a "stock/factory", He said, "Just prove that to State Ref".

[rjsiciliano]

Things like this make me glad I live in Florida. No state inspections, no emissions checks, loud exhausts galore!

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by rjsiciliano

Things like this make me glad I live in Florida. No state inspections, no emissions checks, loud exhausts galore!

So why commenting in the California section?


OP had illegal modifications and got a ticket, he will fix it and live with the consequences, end of story.

[Melbourn3]

I got the same ticket on my MK4 Supra, thankfully they didn't write you up for the emissions state ref. The exhasut just requires you to be under the decibel limit from what I heard.

[Hivand_M]

Just tested the car as is with a db meter I bought from Amazon. Did the test how they would (20 inches away at 45 degrees and at muffler height level) I understand the meter they use is probably higher quality but I did not go over 95 db with the valves closed or open. Took it to 2, 2.5, and 3k. Going up to 3k aggressively I was at 113 db (max), getting to 3k slowly didn't go over 95.

I think the verdict is to go there as is and see what happens.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by Hivand_M

Just tested the car as is with a db meter I bought from Amazon. Did the test how they would (20 inches away at 45 degrees and at muffler height level) I understand the meter they use is probably higher quality but I did not go over 95 db with the valves closed or open. Took it to 2, 2.5, and 3k. Going up to 3k aggressively I was at 113 db (max), getting to 3k slowly didn't go over 95.

I think the verdict is to go there as is and see what happens.

the outlier is you better hope you go to a decent test station..

[roastbeef]

please post the results.

[sahanMpower]

hey just got a ticket for loud exhaust too, my car has straight pipe with vavled muffler and i did check my decibel meter, its seems ok but i wanted to know what they gonna do at state ref? are they gonna rev the engine? check the hood?

[TboneS54]

Originally Posted by sahanMpower

hey just got a ticket for loud exhaust too, my car has straight pipe with vavled muffler and i did check my decibel meter, its seems ok but i wanted to know what they gonna do at state ref? are they gonna rev the engine? check the hood?

Do yourself a favor and google what a state ref entails. You're on course for a shocker as it stands.

[2one3E90]

what car

[Hivand_M]

Alright boys, finally have a moment to post what happened.

I went with the car as is. There were 2 techs there, one possibly a student and the other was older, probably there full time. Both pretty chill dudes. They both looked under the car (muffler section), younger guy looked under the car with a mirror (mid section). I thought I failed right there. Older guy comes up to me and asks me about the valves then they both go inside. After 20 minutes they come back and say your cats check out but we have to fail you because of the valved muffler. The rule is "no exhaust bypass allowed" which I knew but I thought that was in regards to bypassing the whole system and not if the valves are part of your muffler. So they failed me without even doing the sound test.

Before leaving I asked them what RPM they are going to take it to and they said 4,200. Probably would've failed at that RPM tbh. I had to "make the changes" and email them pictures before I can set up another inspection. Put the OEM cans back on, sent them pics, made another appointment, and went again. Luckily I got the same guys again. They still looked under the car, muffler section and mid section. I guess since it looked good they proceeded. They popped the hood, I asked why, he said to check my coolant, oil, and belts (not sure if they check for other stuff too but I don't have anything under the hood). They did not check the ECU. Started the car and took it to 4,200 checked the level and did it once more. It was pretty loud and I thought it wasn't going to pass but it scored an average of 90 and passed!!

[drwankel]

Talk about an incompetent state ref if they cant tell theres a straight pipe between the o2 sensors.

These insane emissions inspection requirements is the single thing that keeps me from moving to California. Not willing to deal with ripping out my harrop supercharger and exhaust every 2 years, and then the constant risk of being popped by CHP and sent to a state ref.

Here in Washington state, we ended emissions testing in 2019. Why? Because they realized it was a total waste of state money, and cars made in the last 25 years are so clean, and rarely require any sort of emissions inspection related correction.

I wish california would at least come to some middle ground. Something like if I have an EV for my daily driver, let me have an emissions waver for my weekend car. Or as we approach 2035 where gasoline cars are phased out, phase out emissions testing with it.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by drwankel

Talk about an incompetent state ref if they cant tell theres a straight pipe between the o2 sensors.

These insane emissions inspection requirements is the single thing that keeps me from moving to California. Not willing to deal with ripping out my harrop supercharger and exhaust every 2 years, and then the constant risk of being popped by CHP and sent to a state ref.

Here in Washington state, we ended emissions testing in 2019. Why? Because they realized it was a total waste of state money, and cars made in the last 25 years are so clean, and rarely require any sort of emissions inspection related correction.

I wish california would at least come to some middle ground. Something like if I have an EV for my daily driver, let me have an emissions waver for my weekend car. Or as we approach 2035 where gasoline cars are phased out, phase out emissions testing with it.

the reality is, the clean cars on the road today are the result of years of tightening emissions regulations. its a good thing, but its a double edged sword and unfortunately includes some over reach (lawnmowers, offroad vehicles, race vehicles, boats).

a healthy middle ground would be some kind of permit for higher emissions for race vehicles to be driven on the road. just an idea, but the permit would be a legit money grab that people would be willing to pay.

[drwankel]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

the reality is, the clean cars on the road today are the result of years of tightening emissions regulations. its a good thing, but its a double edged sword and unfortunately includes some over reach (lawnmowers, offroad vehicles, race vehicles, boats).

a healthy middle ground would be some kind of permit for higher emissions for race vehicles to be driven on the road. just an idea, but the permit would be a legit money grab that people would be willing to pay.

This is a result of tightening emission regulations for new car sales. It has nothing to do with annual emissions inspections. The fact that cars are so clean new is one of the primary reasons Washington state ended emissions testing. It was a simple decision of the State spent X dollars to find x number of vehicles in violation of emissions compliance. The numbers just didn't make financial sense, so the program was killed. The money was better spent elsewhere.

I can't fathom to think the crazy amounts of money wasted by California by emissions testing, specifying California spec emission vehicles, CARB requiring to test every aftermarket part connected to an engine before its considered legal, random law enforcement intrusions and state ref inspections.

The amount of people who modify a car in any capacity is a tiny fraction of all car owners. When Washington state ended emissions testing, you didn't see catless cars everywhere all of a sudden. The number of modded cars stayed about the same, just that the owners didn't have to jump through hoops to legally register their vehicles. Our air quality didn't tank, in fact it's better than it was before.

That all being said, I would happily pay an annual premium on a vehicle to be emissions exempt in California, within reason.

[roastbeef]

you're not wrong. i doubt there will be any change in the right direction though. they're starting to get nutty with gas stove banning, eyeballing charcoal ovens/bbq. i don't see things getting better.

its too much of a political message to change directions though... its not about logic or reason.