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      02-12-2020, 08:07 AM   #23
tdott
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richneerd View Post
M5 V8 loud and proud engine
M3 V8 quiet and calm engine
Both sound great and different, but opening up that S65 will definitely make it less "quiet and calm".

Two of the best NA V8s BMW will ever make.
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      02-12-2020, 01:08 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by tdott View Post
Both sound great and different, but opening up that S65 will definitely make it less "quiet and calm".

Two of the best NA V8s BMW will ever make.
Seriously never heard of the S65 referred to as “calm” before. Quiet, perhaps with the stock exhaust, but calm? Not once you rev last 6k. Not what I’d call calm. Frantic is the word that comes to mind.
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      02-12-2020, 01:40 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by 850tgul View Post
Seriously never heard of the S65 referred to as “calm” before. Quiet, perhaps with the stock exhaust, but calm? Not once you rev last 6k. Not what I’d call calm. Frantic is the word that comes to mind.
Yea that is very true, even the cold start on a stock car doesn't give a "calm" feeling but everyone is different.
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      02-12-2020, 03:18 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 850tgul View Post
Seriously never heard of the S65 referred to as “calm” before. Quiet, perhaps with the stock exhaust, but calm? Not once you rev last 6k. Not what I’d call calm. Frantic is the word that comes to mind.
Absolutely. Stock for stock, the E39 M5 is much quieter than the E90 M3 especially at high revs/WOT as you mention. The M5 is also quieter outside.
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      02-21-2020, 03:31 PM   #27
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The E90M is LOUD outside at WOT for a stock sedan. It's sad how little of that makes it inside. I had many people ask me if the car had an aftermarket exhaust on it before I had the MPE, when it was completely stock.
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      02-26-2020, 10:10 AM   #28
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      02-27-2020, 08:25 PM   #29
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I've also had both, albeit not at the same time. I echo everything CSBM5 has to say. They're vastly different driving experiences similar only in the fact that they have V8s and 4 doors.

Now if you like the low-end sledgehammer TQ of the S62, apparently a Dinan stroker S65 is the perfect blend of both engines. Definitely a bucket list item for me. Low end S62 grunt combined with top end mania of the S65... Bliss.
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      02-28-2020, 07:04 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by 6ixSpd View Post
Now if you like the low-end sledgehammer TQ of the S62, apparently a Dinan stroker S65 is the perfect blend of both engines. Definitely a bucket list item for me. Low end S62 grunt combined with top end mania of the S65... Bliss.
Cams/headers on the S62 gets a similar result... for a much lower price. There's a reason BMW was still using the S62 as their race engine after the e9X finished production.
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      02-28-2020, 07:58 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Cams/headers on the S62 gets a similar result... for a much lower price. There's a reason BMW was still using the S62 as their race engine after the e9X finished production.
According to Steve Dinan (when he gave a talk about S65 Daytona Prototype development), they were getting a bit more power out of the S65 (turning higher rpms of course) from 4.5L vs the 5L DP S62 engine. He did say that since the S65 was smaller and lighter that it was a benefit to engine location and mass if they have to use it. At the time (2010), he hoped that IMSA wasn't going to force them to switch to the S65, but they were ready with an S65 DP design since he believed they would be forced to switch.

It was really interesting (as a mechanical engineer) to listen to him talk about the areas they found power in the S62/S65 engine, especially the discussion about pumping losses where they found huge efficiency improvements (obviously didn't discuss the details). As a side note I asked him about S62 rod bearings, and he said the stock S62 bearings worked fine in the DP engine but of course they rebuild the engines and change them out about every 27 hours of usage (this was in 2010 when there was an M5board rod bearing panic continually fed by one member trying to make a mountain out of a molehill).
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      02-28-2020, 08:42 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
According to Steve Dinan (when he gave a talk about S65 Daytona Prototype development), they were getting a bit more power out of the S65 (turning higher rpms of course) from 4.5L vs the 5L DP S62 engine. He did say that since the S65 was smaller and lighter that it was a benefit to engine location and mass if they have to use it. At the time (2010), he hoped that IMSA wasn't going to force them to switch to the S65, but they were ready with an S65 DP design since he believed they would be forced to switch.

It was really interesting (as a mechanical engineer) to listen to him talk about the areas they found power in the S62/S65 engine, especially the discussion about pumping losses where they found huge efficiency improvements (obviously didn't discuss the details). As a side note I asked him about S62 rod bearings, and he said the stock S62 bearings worked fine in the DP engine but of course they rebuild the engines and change them out about every 27 hours of usage (this was in 2010 when there was an M5board rod bearing panic continually fed by one member trying to make a mountain out of a molehill).
Long interview on the smoking tire podcast with Steve Dinan where they talk about the S62 and S65 race engine builds:

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      03-02-2020, 11:01 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
My experience on driving the E39 vs. E90 echoes CSBM5's. I love the E39, but I chose not to marry one, and was willing to pay a substantial premium for the E90M after driving a few E39's and the E90 back when the E90 was just a toddler. Even in 2009-2010, E39M's were getting hard to come by for truly nice examples, but I found a couple, and drove them, and made my choice. The E39M was the car I thought I wanted after reading the internet, the E90M was the car I actually wanted.

No surprise spreadsheets are being trotted out in this discussion, and anecdotes, but it misses the poiint IMO. The M3 and M5 are great cars no matter which generation you choose. You can dig in on what you want from a car and find one that fits those attributes. You can have anything you want from any era of modern cars, wrapped in a practical wrapper, with a huge enthusiast base to draw knowledge from and ready parts availability, and for a performance car, relatively good long-term durablity.

You literally cannot go wrong with any of them, unless you pick the one you think you want based on internet comments, instead of driving them all (and then driving them all again, and again) - I see no reason why soembody wouldn't be completely smitten with the E39M after driving one, especially when compared against what passes for driving engagement from new cars, they're 100% awesome.
Great post, I agree completely. The E9x M3 suits what I want out of an M car better.

The E39 M5 has still always been one of my favorite cars ever since it was in Need for Speed video game. I just couldn't imagine how something so practical, beautiful and fast could all be packaged in one car.

However, the E39 was more of a don't meet your hero car for me. Insanely pretty inside and out, but I don't think it warrants the crazy prices they command now. I at least understand why the E46 M3 has exploded in price.

I would have loved to add an Imola Red/Caramel M5, but I can't justify having that and an E92 M3 in the garage. I'd rather have something completely different like the E36 or the Z4M.
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