Camber Settings for Track

[Longboarder]

GC camber plates running:

-3.0 F and -1.8 R on stock ZCP suspension.

Just ran two days at Thermal in warm conditions first day with RE71Rs and second day Cup2's and the wear was perfect! I was very pleased that the outside edges had no wear and the car was pushed to its limits.

Thx for the guidance in this thread. This car needs a lot of front negative camber to rotate and preserve tires and has no negative effect on braking.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by dbyrd

Why wouldn't you run an ideal OEM alignment for the street and a more aggressive alignment for track days? It takes 5 mins to loosen the three bolts and move the camber setting to the most extreme setting in the low -3s. If you're worried about too much toe out as a result simply tighten the tie rod a half to 2/3 of a turn. You can leave the rear at -1.8-2. Remember, righty-tighty, lefty-loosy.

I think this is doable for minor camber changes but anything greater than 1 degree makes this a little sketchy. Specifically, it's not easy to guesstimate toe settings by turning the tie rod ends without any alignment equipment.

[dbyrd]

I'll adjust camber from OEM setting to -3.5ish at the track. My track-oriented alignment shop marked track and street settings for camber and toe so I know just where to adjust to for track, then where to return to for the drive home. I've been doing this for years with no problem. Just a few extra mins while installing track pads and tires.

[dplaras]

I just bought 275x30x19 and 295x30x19 p4s. I'll be running -1.6 and -2.1 settings this coming Friday @ limerock. Will I have problem with p4s? Also what pressure is the p4s effective? I'm on stock suspension with eibach lowering springs

[Longboarder]

Inner tyre wear from only 1,000 street miles on RE71Rs -3.0 camber :

[Melchior]

Check your toe.

I finished One Lap of America on a set of 285/30-18 RE71Rs. They didn’t even wear that bad on the inside shoulders after 3800 street miles, and of course 16 track events and 1 autocross. -3.0 F and -2.4 R.

[jid2]

^^^^ Yeap, that is likely wear from toe, not camber. Camber isn't that sharp at the edges, it would be much more gradual. That looks like scrub from toe out.

[admranger]

That's toe wear Longboarder, as Melchior and jid2 have already stated.

Let us know what toe settings did this! I'd set it at zero toe up front and a smidge at the rear (least toe within specs). You don't need a lot of rear toe with the E90 suspension.

[dogbone]

My experience says it is the camber......Back in the day, when my car was dual duty street/track, I had camber set at -3.2º all the time. I ruined a set of front PSS very quickly in a very similar way. The tire looked great except for the inside edge which was showing cords......blah.

I have always run with slight toe in. Never had toe-out on my car, so that just could not have been the issue for me.

This is why I started changing camber between street and track. Once I did that, I never had any more issues with wearing the street tires too quickly.

I know Longboarder doesn't like to do those kinds of tech things to his car, but for me, it was worthwhile.

[kyippee]

Any tips on what amount of negative camber wouldn't cause the issue he got above, but also allow better tire wear on track? I'm installing Dinan camber plates, maybe something like 2 to 2.5 degrees?

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by dogbone

My experience says it is the camber......Back in the day, when my car was dual duty street/track, I had camber set at -3.2º all the time. I ruined a set of front PSS very quickly in a very similar way. The tire looked great except for the inside edge which was showing cords......blah.

I have always run with slight toe in. Never had toe-out on my car, so that just could not have been the issue for me.

This is why I started changing camber between street and track. Once I did that, I never had any more issues with wearing the street tires too quickly.

I know Longboarder doesn't like to do those kinds of tech things to his car, but for me, it was worthwhile.

I dug up an old photo from 2012----when I was running -3.2º on the street as well as track. I took this photo to show clearance from the suspension. But looking back at it, you can see how the Pilot Super Sport was getting completely trashed on the inside edge. And you can see the depth of the tread further to the center still has lots of depth. This tire was only run on the street. I had two sets of wheels back then.

At the time, I didn't have any experience to even notice what was happening to the tire until it was too late. But I'd say it looks quite similar to Longboarder's picture. (Again, switching camber between street and track made this 100% go away.)

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by admranger

That's toe wear Longboarder, as Melchior and jid2 have already stated.

Let us know what toe settings did this! I'd set it at zero toe up front and a smidge at the rear (least toe within specs). You don't need a lot of rear toe with the E90 suspension.

Originally Posted by dogbone

My experience says it is the camber......Back in the day, when my car was dual duty street/track, I had camber set at -3.2º all the time. I ruined a set of front PSS very quickly in a very similar way. The tire looked great except for the inside edge which was showing cords......blah.

I have always run with slight toe in. Never had toe-out on my car, so that just could not have been the issue for me.

This is why I started changing camber between street and track. Once I did that, I never had any more issues with wearing the street tires too quickly.

I know Longboarder doesn't like to do those kinds of tech things to his car, but for me, it was worthwhile.

Gentlemen,

Everybody is correct! The issue is that I'm running stock suspension and the high neg camber on the street was causing toe while driving. Sounds weird but toe as the car stands still checking the alignment was zero. But the soft stock bushings causes deflection (exacerbated with the high initial camber) anytime the suspension is loaded up which occurs all the time even in daily driving.

So I'm back to -1.8 F camber until the solid bushings come in.

[kyippee]

Which bushings? I'd like to replace mine too

[admranger]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Gentlemen,

Everybody is correct! The issue is that I'm running stock suspension and the high neg camber on the street was causing toe while driving. Sounds weird but toe as the car stands still checking the alignment was zero. But the soft stock bushings causes deflection (exacerbated with the high initial camber) anytime the suspension is loaded up which occurs all the time even in daily driving.

So I'm back to -1.8 F camber until the solid bushings come in.

I'm running just pretty close to the same camber, but PSS vs. RE71Rs, and wear isn't anything like that. I'm at 44k miles (+/-). Clearly RE71Rs will wears faster. Guess I better watch my tires closely.

On edit: Don't have that many miles on tires, only mentioned total miles for bushing wear.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

Which bushings? I'd like to replace mine too

Sorry - Front tension strut arm. I'll update my thread.

[kyippee]

This thread is really helpful. I'm currently at -1.6 front camber with stock ZCP suspension (+Dinan front sway on middle setting) and using 18x10 track wheels with previously RE71R, mounting Hankook RS4 this weekend in 275/35/18.

My RE71R looked like they needed more camber. Outside shoulders beat way more than inside of tire or center. Even with unmounting/remounting to flip sides on the wheels + rotating between different event CCW/CW, I only got 6-7 hours of seat time on the RE71R.

I have Dinan camber plates which allow -0.7 more camber. So I'll have about -2.3. Will try running this on both street and track. Maybe when I feel the need, I'll go for coilovers and more adjustable camber plates. Hopefully this works out better than my current settings!

[kyippee]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Sorry - Front tension strut arm. I'll update my thread.

Is this the same upgrade as monoballs? I am getting Dinan front control arm monoballs installed this Saturday along with other upgrades like camber plates. Shop I frequent recommended monoballs based on what I'm feeling and observing. Will see how they feel on Sunday at Laguna.

[MPower7]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

Is this the same upgrade as monoballs? I am getting Dinan front control arm monoballs installed this Saturday along with other upgrades like camber plates. Shop I frequent recommended monoballs based on what I'm feeling and observing. Will see how they feel on Sunday at Laguna.

How was Laguna with the Mods?

[kyippee]

@MPower7 subtle difference but more stable under braking like braking into turn 2. Less sideways movement when coming in hot!

Car feels like it got a lot stiffer. Street driving huge difference in comfort. Some squeaks and clunks when going over bumps in downtown SF. Can't tell just yet if I feel like it's worth it on a mixed duty car... will feel it out more at Sonoma raceway 7/7-7/8

That was for monoballs. Camber plates I really couldn't tell. I switched from RE71R to RS4 tires at the same time, so I can't really isolate the individual changes and how they felt. RS4 felt numb but look hardly worn after 5x 20 minute sessions!

[MPower7]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

@MPower7 subtle difference but more stable under braking like braking into turn 2. Less sideways movement when coming in hot!

Car feels like it got a lot stiffer. Street driving huge difference in comfort. Some squeaks and clunks when going over bumps in downtown SF. Can't tell just yet if I feel like it's worth it on a mixed duty car... will feel it out more at Sonoma raceway 7/7-7/8

That was for monoballs. Camber plates I really couldn't tell. I switched from RE71R to RS4 tires at the same time, so I can't really isolate the individual changes and how they felt. RS4 felt numb but look hardly worn after 5x 20 minute sessions!

Sounds like a decent upgrade on the track. I ended up buying the Rogue Street Bushings because I do daily it. Will update on that once they are in the car.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

Is this the same upgrade as monoballs? I am getting Dinan front control arm monoballs installed this Saturday along with other upgrades like camber plates. Shop I frequent recommended monoballs based on what I'm feeling and observing. Will see how they feel on Sunday at Laguna.

Bumping thread sort of but yes i had solid bushings (front tension strut monoball conversion) installed (see pic) so that when I run -3 front camber for track days and on the street for a long period, the car doesn't eat inner tires from toe-induced deflection, which occurs from things like hard breaking or even suspension compression from undulations.

Most people wouldn't experience this type of tire wear because toe-induced deflection doesn't happen on properly aligned stock suspension unless negative camber is really high like at -3.

[kiquos]

Hello fellas, ive been at the track before, but this is the first time with 2011 e92M3, with Double Adj coilovers and Camber plates. Running Pirelli Slicks Square (285/645-18 DHD2. Coming from a previous E46M3, and reading here it appears the Camber numbers are different between these 2 animals.
I am a 8/10,9/10 driver in FL, Sebring Raceway. The car is Street/track. Some street driving but not a lot, its not my DD. So willing to go more aggressive for track and save less tire on the street.

Thoughts based on what I read:
Front -3.0
Rear - 2.5

Thanks

P.S. thoughts on sway bars?