Lightest bbk - F/R?

[slonik]

50k miles, really? it depends on usage a LOT. so i dont believe that this rotors will live more then one season with my driving

we also have similar long usage customers, but same time i know that with my usage i'm killing iron rotors 2 times per season.
right now ive made one season on my ceramic rotors, and its the second set of pagid RSC pads.

[mslam02]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

Lightest available has been discontinued. It was the ap racing cp5060 caliper with their 355mm rotors. Dropped 22lbs off the front axle. This is what I have.

The ap racing radical that Essex parts sells is just a few pounds more, but it is a higher performing kit.
Aside from that, carbon ceramic kits are insanely expensive and they don't tell you the weight...

jritt@essex Why were these discontinued? I'm looking at a brake upgrade mostly for the reason of unsprung weight savings (in addition to lighter wheels) and these would have been a great option...

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by mslam02

jritt@essex Why were these discontinued? I'm looking at a brake upgrade mostly for the reason of unsprung weight savings (in addition to lighter wheels) and these would have been a great option...

it was a fantastic option, but ap is evolving away from cast offerings for forged calipers.

[jritt@essex]

Originally Posted by mslam02

jritt@essex Why were these discontinued? I'm looking at a brake upgrade mostly for the reason of unsprung weight savings (in addition to lighter wheels) and these would have been a great option...

We moved away from the conventional caliper designs and towards AP's Radi-CAL designs. The newer Radi-CALs are considerably stiffer, run cooler, and they're lighter. The only reason our newer kit is slightly heavier is because the front disc is bigger (372x34mm vs. 355x32mm). Another reason we moved to a bigger disc on the e9x chassis when we did is because we started to see more forced induction, stickier tires, more aero, etc. The demands on the brake system were going up, so we decided to provide more brake 'headroom' and longevity in our system for severe use.

Our CP9660/372mm system is incredibly light for its size, and shaves 14 unsprung lbs. from the nose of the e9x M3, and still fits under 18" wheels. Our matching rear kit removes another 17 unsprung lbs. This front and rear setup allows you to run lightweight 18's as well, so tons of weight reduction potential on the table. We are an APEX and Forgeline wheel seller, so let us know if you'd like us to put together a lightweight wheel and brake package for you. Thanks!

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by mslam02

jritt@essex Why were these discontinued? I'm looking at a brake upgrade mostly for the reason of unsprung weight savings (in addition to lighter wheels) and these would have been a great option...

Originally Posted by jritt@essex

We moved away from the conventional caliper designs and towards AP's Radi-CAL designs. The newer Radi-CALs are considerably stiffer, run cooler, and they're lighter. The only reason our newer kit is slightly heavier is because the front disc is bigger (372x34mm vs. 355x32mm). Another reason we moved to a bigger disc on the e9x chassis when we did is because we started to see more forced induction, stickier tires, more aero, etc. The demands on the brake system were going up, so we decided to provide more brake 'headroom' and longevity in our system for severe use.

Our CP9660/372mm system is incredibly light for its size, and shaves 14 unsprung lbs. from the nose of the e9x M3, and still fits under 18" wheels. Our matching rear kit removes another 17 unsprung lbs. This front and rear setup allows you to run lightweight 18's as well, so tons of weight reduction potential on the table. We are an APEX and Forgeline wheel seller, so let us know if you'd like us to put together a lightweight wheel and brake package for you. Thanks!

In regards to what jritt@essex is saying - we race their Radi-Cal kits hard out to 70 minute sprints with zero fade. This is at a very quick pace for our platform and with zero brake cooling (they do not need them). Awesome kits - the weight savings are substantial and the performance excellent

[Rochen_00]

In my case, I used original Porsche 997 GT3 mk2 calipers. They are quite light, about 3.5kg (about 7.7lb) They have 6 pistons and allow me to put a 380mm rotor and clean an 18" wheel

[bigjae1976]

I run stoptech ST60 380/ST40 355 on my car...did fine for the track.

If I had to do it again, I'd run ST40/355 front and rear. For me, pad availability is important. The ST40 runs the same pad shape as Porsche 928/944/968 and some 80's 911s.

You can rotate brake pads front to rear. Keep a new set on the rear. When the fronts get low just rotate the pads.

If you're into the FCP Euro thing, you can get Hawk pads for the ST40 calipers. Or you can use the Stoptech Racing pads which you can find for less than $250. The SR34 is basically a PF01 clone.

Not the best or lightest but definitely the lowest long-term cost.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by jritt@essex

We moved away from the conventional caliper designs and towards AP's Radi-CAL designs. The newer Radi-CALs are considerably stiffer, run cooler, and they're lighter. The only reason our newer kit is slightly heavier is because the front disc is bigger (372x34mm vs. 355x32mm). Another reason we moved to a bigger disc on the e9x chassis when we did is because we started to see more forced induction, stickier tires, more aero, etc. The demands on the brake system were going up, so we decided to provide more brake 'headroom' and longevity in our system for severe use.

Our CP9660/372mm system is incredibly light for its size, and shaves 14 unsprung lbs. from the nose of the e9x M3, and still fits under 18" wheels. Our matching rear kit removes another 17 unsprung lbs. This front and rear setup allows you to run lightweight 18's as well, so tons of weight reduction potential on the table. We are an APEX and Forgeline wheel seller, so let us know if you'd like us to put together a lightweight wheel and brake package for you. Thanks!

lets collab and do a lightweight "beef spec" brake package. 9660 front calipers on 355mm rotors up front and cp9449 calipers on the 340 rear rotor. lightest configuration possible.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

lets collab and do a lightweight "beef spec" brake package. 9660 front calipers on 355mm rotors up front and cp9449 calipers on the 340 rear rotor. lightest configuration possible.

They'd have to be crossed drilled rotors and no one wants that

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by DRLane

They'd have to be crossed drilled rotors and no one wants that

no, the 355x32 rotor is what i have, and its the 72 vane J-hook design.

all essex is doing is using available ap racing rotors, calipers, and hardware to design hats and caliper brackets for different applications. there is some thinking going on with car weight and wheel fit and what they can fit inside that, but they'd really only have to figure out a caliper bracket for what i'm talking about.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

no, the 355x32 rotor is what i have, and its the 72 vane J-hook design.

all essex is doing is using available ap racing rotors, calipers, and hardware to design hats and caliper brackets for different applications. there is some thinking going on with car weight and wheel fit and what they can fit inside that, but they'd really only have to figure out a caliper bracket for what i'm talking about.

It was a drilled hole joke.

[mslam02]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

lets collab and do a lightweight "beef spec" brake package. 9660 front calipers on 355mm rotors up front and cp9449 calipers on the 340 rear rotor. lightest configuration possible.

jritt@essex I’d 100% be a Guinea pig for this if needed!

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

no, the 355x32 rotor is what i have, and its the 72 vane J-hook design.

all essex is doing is using available ap racing rotors, calipers, and hardware to design hats and caliper brackets for different applications. there is some thinking going on with car weight and wheel fit and what they can fit inside that, but they'd really only have to figure out a caliper bracket for what i'm talking about.

Would rather the larger disc than to have to add brake cooling if the 355 can't keep up for an extended flogging. Would be an interesting exercise to see how that setup held up.

With these piggies (don't be offended roastbeef - yours is still in piggy territory even with all those holes) we can definitely put some pressure on the brakes. With a 9668 kit on our platform it's a big benefit not having to introduce cooling ducts onto the already brick worthy front aero performance.

At the least that kind of kit could make for an awesome TT setup. Best case would make the 9660 a solid alternative for the platform for all usage. As is I prefer the 9668 with its much lower long term costs over the 9660 even with the weight savings. But an even lighter kit definitely could bring that into consideration...

And it could only be named the "where's the beef spec"...

I wholeheartedly apologize to anyone who just read that last line...

[roastbeef]

The weight difference between the cp5060 caliper and the 9660 caliper is 6 ounces (unless the info I found was inaccurate). So not too drastic.

I did talk to a guy a while back that said he could make replica AP pistons in titanium… cost was kinda nutty when looking at it from a dollar to ounce ratio.

My cp5060/5040 kit never fades, even with my car being fat and slicks. It is a good package.

They use the 9660 on theirs FR-S kit with the 355mm rotors, so I know it's possible, it's just adapting the mount to the e9x spindle.

[DRLane]

I think belittling a company with "all they do" when your value add is mixing existing hardware isn't the approach to collaboration.

Fully realizing this was more in jest than anything, but bashing brands that provide meaningful contributions to our community and Motorsports at large isn't a good look for M3post. I've decided to be vendor justice police this morning 🤭

[roastbeef]

I definitely didn't mean that in a negative light. I mean they aren't designing calipers and having AP make them to spec. They are using available AP racing catalog parts and finding what rotors and calipers fit what cars and making sure the piston sizes jive.
It's like saying all bmw does is make cars… well, sort of.

[nycplumber]

Love my F/R st40s. I almost went for more expensive or bigger heavier set ups but they just aren't worth the money unless your m3 is a serious track car.

[Bmwguy88]

Was just about to make this same post! Wanting to finally get a BBK and I'm a buy once cry once kinda guy. But there are so many options where do I start? I'd want to get the most for my money. This is for just a weekend track day car.

[nah dude]

Originally Posted by Bmwguy88

Was just about to make this same post! Wanting to finally get a BBK and I'm a buy once cry once kinda guy. But there are so many options where do I start? I'd want to get the most for my money. This is for just a weekend track day car.

don't buy the knock off retrofit instagram bbk

[Redd]

Originally Posted by Bmwguy88

Was just about to make this same post! Wanting to finally get a BBK and I'm a buy once cry once kinda guy. But there are so many options where do I start? I'd want to get the most for my money. This is for just a weekend track day car.

Weekend track car just go with Essex AP Pro 5000R and skip the future crying. Street bbk exhibit pad knockback at track. The AP Pro 5000R comes with anti-knockback springs installed. Consumables are also considerably cheaper than Brembo.

[jritt@essex]

Roastbeef isn't bashing us at all by any means. He has been a strong advocate for us for years based on the success he's had with our brake kit on on his car (and we really appreciate that!).

I mean they aren't designing calipers and having AP make them to spec. They are using available AP racing catalog parts and finding what rotors and calipers fit what cars and making sure the piston sizes jive.
It's like saying all bmw does is make cars… well, sort of.

I understand what you are trying to say, but this isn't actually the case. We in fact do collaborate with AP Racing on their designs, as we did on the Pro5000R calipers. The discs we use in our AP Racing by Essex Brake Kits are designed by us in conjunction with AP, and they are only available through Essex (you don't see 372x34mm discs in other parts of the world...usually 378mm). We use our experience and expertise to help steer product development for the components in our kits. In some cases we also use special variants of AP Racing calipers that aren't or weren't available previously. For example, we took their CP9660 and had them produce the CP9661, which is a small piston bore variant for mid and rear engine vehicles. We also use some trick machining on the AP calipers in our Porsche GT car kits. In summary, we aren't just stuffing a bunch of parts bin components in a box and calling it our kit. That's why our kits aren't like the 'Retrofit Instagram Kits' noted above...great descriptor BTW!

As for producing additional kits of different spec, there is a very high cost to doing so. There is engineering design time, prototypes, test-fitting on car, and the actual production run...all of which add up to many thousands of dollars. Keep in mind that we offer roughly 160 different brake kits at this stage, and we have to inventory all the components for every one of them. When you do a production run on these parts, you don't make six of them. You need to do them in a sizeable batch for it to make any financial sense. There are tooling charges, setup time on the machines, etc. That means you better be sure it's a kit that lots of people really want/need, or you are pouring gobs of money down the drain. We literally have millions of dollars of aluminum parts inventory on hand at any time, so we are being selective about what we produce.

The reality is that our CP9660/372mm Kit is still lighter than pretty much everything else, AND it provides the incredible durability our kits are known for, AND it still fits inside most popular 18" track wheels (which is why we custom spec'd the disc to 372mm, not larger). The difference between our 355mm and 372mm discs are only a few pounds, and most of our customers aren't racing for money. They prefer the $ savings on spare pads and discs that come with the 372mm.

I can honestly say that to my knowledge we've never had a client tell us our 372mm Radi-CAL brake kit for their XYZ is too heavy. In every case it's far lighter than stock, and also lighter than everything else they're considering.

Hopefully the above makes sense. We want to be as transparent about these things as possible. If we have fifty people step up and put down a deposit on an uber-lightweight RoastBeef spec kit, then of course we will make it. I have a strong feeling however, that most people are going to prefer the durability of the 372mm system. The extra few pounds savings of a smaller kit won't make enough difference in their lap times to offset the legendary durability our 372mm kit provides.

[jritt@essex]

Forgot to say, we literally have a G80 M3 on our list as I type this. We are about to drop our kit for those. On the front, our kit will shave somewhere in the neighborhood of 22 lbs. off the nose of the car vs. the OEM front brakes.

OEM front caliper is 11.4 lbs., our CP9660 is 6.1 lbs.
OEM front disc is 27.9 lbs., our 372x34mm is 21.8 lbs.