Need help with timing engine

[e90sanmarino]

Hi guys,

I am following TIS manual to adjust the timing but after 3 tries, I've been getting the same results.

After I spin the crank 360 degrees I recheck timing on bank 1 (numbers on camshaft facing down) the tools do not sit flush at TDC.

If you have any advice/tips would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

[deansbimmer]

What is your reasoning for retiming in the first place? Faults? New cams?

If everything mechanical was/is ok, no faults before this, no other hardware changes etc... Then the timing procedure is not being performed correctly.

BMW states to torque new bolts once, then torque them final. It's probably fine to loosen/retorque one more time if corrections are needed but beyond that I'd replace them as these bolts stretch significantly.

[spammysammich]

What happens when. You spin the crank two revolutions?

[e90sanmarino]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

What is your reasoning for retiming in the first place? Faults? New cams?

If everything mechanical was/is ok, no faults before this, no other hardware changes etc... Then the timing procedure is not being performed correctly.

BMW states to torque new bolts once, then torque them final. It's probably fine to loosen/retorque one more time if corrections are needed but beyond that I'd replace them as these bolts stretch significantly.

Hi Deansbimmer,

Little bit of background on this car. I've purchased this car recently and noticed the induction noise from eventuri cf plenum was somewhat muted from 4k-6k rpm. I scanned the vehicle through ISTA and it showed 275A and 275F codes. This car had new engine replaced by dealership in my country sometime around 2013-2014. The only reason I know this is because in my country, if an engine is replaced, they engrave the cars license plate where the engine serial number should be. Also, when BPM tuning remote diagnosed my car, the highest rpm recorded was close to 11,000rpm according to INPA.

I've replaced brand new vanos solenoid with an OEM one but still no luck, thats when me and Mike from BPM concluded it must be the timing.

Today was my 4th try and I still cannot time it correctly. The gap seems to be different everytime. Ive attached some pictures. This is after going through TIS manual and checking timing again at bank 1 at the final step (at overlap TDC, spinning the crank twice)

I'm going to order a bunch more vanos bolts since this might take me couple of more tries

On hardware side, is there anything that can interfere with timing?

Originally Posted by spammysammich

What happens when. You spin the crank two revolutions?

The gap remains the same (3.5mm)

[amrazM]

has that timing toolset been used on another s65 engine with success?

[e90sanmarino]

Originally Posted by amrazM

has that timing toolset been used on another s65 engine with success?

I bought this tool set new from Amazon just to do timing on my car. (Link: https://www.amazon.com/BMW-TIMING-TOOL-JTC-4335/dp/B076Y3R16Y)

Is there any other timing toolset you recommended?

[deansbimmer]

The timing procedure has to be performed exactly as TIS notes, starting on bank 1, and including following the part where you secure the central bolts to 10nm at 10*, then moving crank to 0* to remove slack from the chain. This part is important. If the issue is repetitive only on bank 1 and the tool confirms proper timing on bank 2, then the tool is likely fine.

Based on the data you report in this thread, I will bet on a failed actuator with damaged rotors and/or locking pin. Replace the intake VANOS adjuster.

[clubsport.m3]

Have you found any solution here OP?

[e90sanmarino]

Originally Posted by clubsport.m3

Have you found any solution here OP?

I’m still waiting for Vanos adjuster and Vanos bolts to arrive. I will update this thread when I have another crack at timing.

[e90sanmarino]

Hi guys,

Parts finally came in and was able to do timing. I'd like to thank everyone in this thread trying to help me out. Especially deansbimmer for diagnosing the vanos adjuster was the culprit.

I was able to do timing on my first try after replacing the vanos adjuster. The tools sat flush for the first time.

However, after doing vanos system test, both exhaust banks are showing 0 degrees for minimum limit. The car is not storing any faults. Once again I need help from great minds on this forum, what would cause this?

Here are the results:

[e90sanmarino]

Two out of five times, when I do the Vanos setpoint test I get this message “impermissible vibration” on exhaust bank 2. Where should I go from here? Should I redo the timing?

[deansbimmer]

The impermissible vibration is the camshaft not being able to maintain a consistent holding in relation to crankshaft position. It’s not a timing issue but rather the adjuster isn’t strong enough to maintain commanded position. This can be caused by several things from mechanical defects to oil pressures. If that exhaust adjuster has been undisturbed and is original, I would suspect it’s broken internally. Assuming the adjuster is intact, the problem can also be from a poor seal at the camshaft recta-rings or O-ring seal. It’s also possible the camshaft’s solenoid valve is leaking internally because it’s defective or its o-rings are damaged.

The vanos system is hydraulic, it’s positions are controlled within its adjusters by managing oil pressures against its internal rotors. The system must be able to retain oil pressure, and also release oil pressure upon command. Failure of any seal in its circuit will particularly cause pressure loss. If an internal rotor is broken in the adjuster, the remaining rotors won’t be able to support the load and vibration faults will be seen.

The exhaust adjusters are particularly prone to failure. I rarely see intake adjuster failures.

[e90sanmarino]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

The impermissible vibration is the camshaft not being able to maintain a consistent holding in relation to crankshaft position. It’s not a timing issue but rather the adjuster isn’t strong enough to maintain commanded position. This can be caused by several things from mechanical defects to oil pressures. If that exhaust adjuster has been undisturbed and is original, I would suspect it’s broken internally. Assuming the adjuster is intact, the problem can also be from a poor seal at the camshaft recta-rings or O-ring seal. It’s also possible the camshaft’s solenoid valve is leaking internally because it’s defective or its o-rings are damaged.

The vanos system is hydraulic, it’s positions are controlled within its adjusters by managing oil pressures against its internal rotors. The system must be able to retain oil pressure, and also release oil pressure upon command. Failure of any seal in its circuit will particularly cause pressure loss. If an internal rotor is broken in the adjuster, the remaining rotors won’t be able to support the load and vibration faults will be seen.

The exhaust adjusters are particularly prone to failure. I rarely see intake adjuster failures.

Thank you for the detailed response. Would you suggest replacing both exhaust adjuster since Im already redoing the timing and labor to open up the valve covers?