Do not drive a GT3!!

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by Billj747

Really? Specs of the car/link?

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=868937

he also managed a 7:27 in a separate lap and posted a different thread where he previews some new mods that will likely make it even faster.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=929175

[Billj747]

Awesome. Thanks.

[cambit]

I wish I could get my hands on a brand new 991 GT3. Went to my Porsche dealership and their 2 allocations sold out. They wouldn't even take my money to get on waitlist because they said it would only give me false hope.

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by Soorena

Perhaps going fast isn't the only subject that matters? Since we are at adding things that help GT3 go faster, why not throw a pair of turbos to go faster? And add AWD to have more traction to go even faster? There is the Turbo for the folks who want to go fast. The GT3 is (was) for a different crowd.

it's not a matter of "faster" or "better".... I was addressing this opinion that not having a manual is a mistake, etc. I had driven nothing BUT manuals all my life (42 years and counting) until I drove a DCT prior to purchasing mine with it, and I went in there with the idea that I would hate it or that somehow I would be giving up something because I couldn't throw the shift with my right hand or push a 3rd pedal or do cute little heel-n-toe maneuvers etc, but it took all of, uhm, 1 and a 1/2 laps to quickly dispel that notion.

I've driven manuals at the track since I bought my DCT (and driven a couple of PDK P-cars), and have yet to say "wow, I should've stayed with a manual" or "man, I sooooo miss manuals" ,etc.

Again, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and deservedly so, but to call the lack of "manual" a mistake, indirectly implying that manuals are funner or somehow more satisfying than dual clutch systems, is, well, IMO, wrong...

Originally Posted by Soorena

BTW, I'm a Real Madrid die hard fan too.

You, sir, are a gentleman and a true scholar! ...... HALA MADRID!

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Brosef

dude, you really need to chill out and ease off the hyperbole. Porsche's aren't without competition.

we have a member on here that just posted a n'ring lap time of 7:37 in his e92. he's no pro driver, it wasn't a closed off course (he encountered traffic) and his car isn't modified with anything crazy (no supercharger or significant HP mods). that's pretty damn impressive, and I believe that's faster than a 997.2 GT3. I'd say that speaks to his capabilities as a driver first and the greatness of the e9x M3 platform second.

and quit bitching about the M3 GTS not besting the GT3. if all BMW cared about was lap times and keeping you from posting snarky remarks about it, they would have put much bigger and stickier rubber on it. but that wasn't their intent. they aimed to create a car that handles extremely well at the limit and is much more approachable than a 911, which is so incredibly unforgiving that I don't see myself buying another one for a long time. I think you, and others (you're not alone), frequently make the mistake of calling an unforgiving car a "driver's" car. a chassis that is difficult to handle should not be considered a virtue. hell, I could build a car that is difficult to handle, but I wouldn't be proud of it. I'd much sooner praise a car that is forgiving and easy and fun to handle at the limits (which is far more difficult to achieve). that's what we're all about here, isn't it? none of us are pro drivers - we're talking about road cars used for occasional track days.

Ok, so I saw your link to his lap, but his car is a pretty heavily modded car for non supercharged. Roll cage, race seats, full akra, stop tech bbk. So def a good 50k worth of work in that car if not more.
Also, PLEASE READ WHAT HIS LAP WAS! IT WAS BRIDGE TO GANTRY. THE DISTANCE OF THIS PORTION IS 19.1 km. THE FULL LAP OF THE RING DONE WHERE THE GT3 AND 991S RAN 7:37 IS 20.8 KM.

SO HIS LAP WAS ABLE TO MANAGE THE SAME TIME BUT HE WENT 1.7 KM LESS. So again, please check the details because had he run the full lap his time likely wouldn't have cracked 8 mins even with all those mods. And in actuality based in the time for the 19.1 it would have been an 8:29 times for the full lap so a couple lifetimes on the that track. So in the end, you just helped to prove the m3 isn't even close to a GT3 nor any 991 based 911 even with pretty extensive mods. Just goes to show why even the GTS wasn't on par with even a GT3 that was 5 years old when it came out.

I don't think Porsches or any car manuf are without fault but porsche seems to be most consistent at doing it right. The 991 is something very special to which it is Still the bar by which all cars are measured and very few compare at all.

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Ok, so I saw your link to his lap, but his car is a pretty heavily modded car for non supercharged. Roll cage, race seats, full akra, stop tech bbk. So def a good 50k worth of work in that car if not more.
Also, PLEASE READ WHAT HIS LAP WAS! IT WAS BRIDGE TO GANTRY. THE DISTANCE OF THIS PORTION IS 19.1 km. THE FULL LAP OF THE RING DONE WHERE THE GT3 AND 991S RAN 7:37 IS 20.8 KM.

SO HIS LAP WAS ABLE TO MANAGE THE SAME TIME BUT HE WENT 1.7 KM LESS. So again, please check the details because had he run the full lap his time likely wouldn't have cracked 8 mins even with all those mods. And in actuality based in the time for the 19.1 it would have been an 8:29 times for the full lap so a couple lifetimes on the that track. So in the end, you just helped to prove the m3 isn't even close to a GT3 nor any 991 based 911 even with pretty extensive mods. Just goes to show why even the GTS wasn't on par with even a GT3 that was 5 years old when it came out.

I don't think Porsches or any car manuf are without fault but porsche seems to be most consistent at doing it right. The 991 is something very special to which it is Still the bar by which all cars are measured and very few compare at all.

that's fine, and shame on me for not noticing that. either way, he's no pro driver and it wasn't a closed course, so no comparison going the other way either.

[W///]

Originally Posted by ssabripo

it's not a matter of "faster" or "better".... I was addressing this opinion that not having a manual is a mistake, etc. I had driven nothing BUT manuals all my life (42 years and counting) until I drove a DCT prior to purchasing mine with it, and I went in there with the idea that I would hate it or that somehow I would be giving up something because I couldn't throw the shift with my right hand or push a 3rd pedal or do cute little heel-n-toe maneuvers etc, but it took all of, uhm, 1 and a 1/2 laps to quickly dispel that notion.

I've driven manuals at the track since I bought my DCT (and driven a couple of PDK P-cars), and have yet to say "wow, I should've stayed with a manual" or "man, I sooooo miss manuals" ,etc.

Again, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and deservedly so, but to call the lack of "manual" a mistake, indirectly implying that manuals are funner or somehow more satisfying than dual clutch systems, is, well, IMO, wrong...


You, sir, are a gentleman and a true scholar! ...... HALA MADRID!

Again with this MT vs DCT. And how often do you drive your car on the track? Many of us drive the M3 on the road at "civilian" speed. An MT car is fun even if you are driving 45 mph. I drove a DCT M3 in Munich for a a couple of days. Love merging on to the Autobahn, and going through the tunnels, but I got bored of it. Thus why I went with an MT when I came back to the US.

There's no right or wrong. It's just nice to be able to have a choice! It WAS a mistake not offering both. It's not like we are saying it should ONLY come with MT. Can you imagine 9k RPM redline + MT? Heaven.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by W///

Again with this MT vs DCT. And how often do you drive your car on the track? Many of us drive the M3 on the road at "civilian" speed. An MT car is fun even if you are driving 45 mph. I drove a DCT M3 in Munich for a a couple of days. Love merging on to the Autobahn, and going through the tunnels, but I got bored of it. Thus why I went with an MT when I came back to the US.

There's no right or wrong. It's just nice to be able to have a choice! It WAS a mistake not offering both. It's not like we are saying it should ONLY come with MT. Can you imagine 9k RPM redline + MT? Heaven.

Hence why the values of the 997 GT3s and RSs are so strong. The purists are putting their money for their love of MT.

[W///]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

Hence why the values of the 997 GT3s and RSs are so strong. The purists are putting their money for their low of MT.

Yea between 6MT and Mezger engine, those 997's are going to be expensive to buy (unfortunately for me).

P.S. I absolutely adore the car you have FS btw

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by W///

Yea between 6MT and Mezger engine, those 997's are going to be expensive to buy (unfortunately for me).

P.S. I absolutely adore the car you have FS btw

Thanks, if not for me getting a smoking deal on a paint-to-sample RS I would have kept the car. So raw yet so refined, heck even the seats were comfortable on longer drives. Almost can't beat cup car white.

[TheKosherStogie]

Thought I'd come in here and add to this with some cool data...granted we are both pretty experienced drivers and have put down solid lap times

Friend Danny just got a 996 GT3, had a E90 M3 before

on Stock suspension on Rs3 we ran with .2 seconds of each other at most tracks
1:33:5-1:33:6 WSIR
2:03:5- 2:03:7 Buttonwillow

I now have KW V3 and Stoptech BBK (this is without aero)
I ran 1:32:8 and Danny in his Stock 996 GT3 on RS3 ran 1:32:0 and on NT01 1:30:5

at Buttonwillow with suspension and brakes 1:59.2....
he has yet to go to Buttonwillow with it but I have no doubt it will be faster than I, especially at a track that really rewards less weight
And thats the old 2005 GT3... the 997.1 even faster and especially the 997.2

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD

Thought I'd come in here and add to this with some cool data...granted we are both pretty experienced drivers and have put down solid lap times

Friend Danny just got a 996 GT3, had a E90 M3 before

on Stock suspension on Rs3 we ran with .2 seconds of each other at most tracks
1:33:5-1:33:6 WSIR
2:03:5- 2:03:7 Buttonwillow

I now have KW V3 and Stoptech BBK (this is without aero)
I ran 1:32:8 and Danny in his Stock 996 GT3 on RS3 ran 1:32:0 and on NT01 1:30:5

at Buttonwillow with suspension and brakes 1:59.2....
he has yet to go to Buttonwillow with it but I have no doubt it will be faster than I, especially at a track that really rewards less weight
And thats the old 2005 GT3... the 997.1 even faster and especially the 997.2

You guys both coming out on the 18th to Buttonwillow? Sounds like you and Danny will be good rabbit for me to try to keep up with.

[TheKosherStogie]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

You guys both coming out on the 18th to Buttonwillow? Sounds like you and Danny will be good rabbit for me to try to keep up with.

Pretty sure he is. And yes he is a good rabbit for you to chase. He also ran 1-2 seconds faster the first day at the track than his m3 at auto club.
All generation gt3's are brilliant

[clar]

The other day, I went grocery shopping with 3 other mates and bought a week's worth of grocery! Beat that, GT3! Incidentally, I am planning to get a 991 GT3 to replace my M3 sometime this year...

[clar]

Originally Posted by Lute

U just defined Wolfinwolfsclothing.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by Soorena

Perhaps going fast isn't the only subject that matters? Since we are at adding things that help GT3 go faster, why not throw a pair of turbos to go faster? And add AWD to have more traction to go even faster? There is the Turbo for the folks who want to go fast. The GT3 is (was) for a different crowd.

Pretty sure that a turbo and AWD would make it faster in a straight line but slower at the track. My 997.2 TTS handles like crap. In fact I'm dropping it off at bbi autosport tomorrow to have the suspension re-done. Can't believe a $180k car from Porsche handles this bad from the factory.

[Soorena]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Pretty sure that a turbo and AWD would make it faster in a straight line but slower at the track. My 997.2 TTS handles like crap. In fact I'm dropping it off at bbi autosport tomorrow to have the suspension re-done. Can't believe a $180k car from Porsche handles this bad from the factory.

Stock Turbo is always faster than a GT3 at track, but it def doesn't feel like that. The suspension is too soft. What are you planing to do with the car? I had these on my Turbo:
-Bilstein TPC (If you don't care about PASM, get some Motons)
-H&R swaybars
-Tarett droplinks
-RSS lower controlarms
The result was astonishing. No sign of stock floppiness whatsoever.

[Soorena]

Originally Posted by ssabripo

Again, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and deservedly so, but to call the lack of "manual" a mistake, indirectly implying that manuals are funner or somehow more satisfying than dual clutch systems, is, well, IMO, wrong...

Thank you for your kind words. Hala Madrid!
I fully agree with your first statement. I think there is a misunderstanding here, what i meant to say is that they probably lost a few potential buyers with not offering a manual option. I'm sure there are other people like me who rather to drive a GT3 with a stickshift. Whether i think manuals are more fun or not, that was my point sir, and i think it's a mistake.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by Soorena

Stock Turbo is always faster than a GT3 at track, but it def doesn't feel like that. The suspension is too soft. What are you planing to do with the car? I had these on my Turbo:
-Bilstein TPC (If you don't care about PASM, get some Motons)
-H&R swaybars
-Tarett droplinks
-RSS lower controlarms
The result was astonishing. No sign of stock floppiness whatsoever.

Interesting. This "floppiness" you speak of...I think I have that too. It's a combination of two things 1) the steering is very "light" and 2) steering wheel oscillation a few mm to the left/right/left, etc very quickly when corner at higher speeds. The second issue is mostly when PASM is on. Very distracting and unnerving.

Today I'm doing Ohlins coils, droplink, GT2 sways and alignment. After I do the exhaust/intercoolers/22psi remap, I'll come back to the longer LCAs in the front to extent the bottom of the wheel 10cm to widen the track and give even more neg camber...and then both upper and lower control arms in the rear to widen it also.

Glad you were pleased with the results!

[W///]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Interesting. This "floppiness" you speak of...I think I have that too. It's a combination of two things 1) the steering is very "light" and 2) steering wheel oscillation a few mm to the left/right/left, etc very quickly when corner at higher speeds. The second issue is mostly when PASM is on. Very distracting and unnerving.

Today I'm doing Ohlins coils, droplink, GT2 sways and alignment. After I do the exhaust/intercoolers/22psi remap, I'll come back to the longer LCAs in the front to extent the bottom of the wheel 10cm to widen the track and give even more neg camber...and then both upper and lower control arms in the rear to widen it also.

Glad you were pleased with the results!

So stock for stock, did you prefer the way the M3 handles itself or the Turbo? I've heard everyone say that a stock Turbo is much too soft to be even somewhat rewarding. I've started leaning towards a 997 GT3 a few years (ok who am I kidding, many years) down the road.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by W///

So stock for stock, did you prefer the way the M3 handles itself or the Turbo? I've heard everyone say that a stock Turbo is much too soft to be even somewhat rewarding. I've started leaning towards a 997 GT3 a few years (ok who am I kidding, many years) down the road.

the m3 is more stable and easier to drive

I will say this. I considered a 997.1 gt3 when I got my turbo. I chose the turbo because I had driven one before and there were no local gt3's to drive.

I made a HUGE mistake. I wish I would have bought the gt3, and I would still have it if I did.

The gt3 is far more capable in stock form and the handling is other wordly. It still is tricky to drive though, harder to drive well than an m3 with the electronics off IMO, but im just an average intermediate level track driver.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by W///

So stock for stock, did you prefer the way the M3 handles itself or the Turbo? I've heard everyone say that a stock Turbo is much too soft to be even somewhat rewarding. I've started leaning towards a 997 GT3 a few years (ok who am I kidding, many years) down the road.

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

the m3 is more stable and easier to drive

I will say this. I considered a 997.1 gt3 when I got my turbo. I chose the turbo because I had driven one before and there were no local gt3's to drive.

I made a HUGE mistake. I wish I would have bought the gt3, and I would still have it if I did.

The gt3 is far more capable in stock form and the handling is other wordly. It still is tricky to drive though, harder to drive well than an m3 with the electronics off IMO, but im just an average intermediate level track driver.

I prefer the M3 as well. Not that its faster, because it probably isn't, but the handling of the M3 at it limit is very comfortable. No drama. The 911TT is the complete opposite. Although the 997.2s have been significantly improved from the 997.1's that I think Mark (KennyPowers) had.

I understand that the handling on the 911TT can be dramatically improved and handle like a GT2. I'm not going for a strict track car - I'm going for a multi-purpose car that will be fun in a straight line and at the track. So the 911TurboS is a good platform. How many cars can do 800 HP with just bolt ons with stock turbos AND have a warranty piggyback on top of Porsches from the tuner (think Dinan)?