Do not drive a GT3!!

[Nordstat]

Originally Posted by Brosef

dude, you really need to chill out and ease off the hyperbole. Porsche's aren't without competition.

we have a member on here that just posted a n'ring lap time of 7:37 in his e92. he's no pro driver, it wasn't a closed off course (he encountered traffic) and his car isn't modified with anything crazy (no supercharger or significant HP mods). that's pretty damn impressive, and I believe that's faster than a 997.2 GT3. I'd say that speaks to his capabilities as a driver first and the greatness of the e9x M3 platform second.

and quit bitching about the M3 GTS not besting the GT3. if all BMW cared about was lap times and keeping you from posting snarky remarks about it, they would have put much bigger and stickier rubber on it. but that wasn't their intent. they aimed to create a car that handles extremely well at the limit and is much more approachable than a 911, which is so incredibly unforgiving that I don't see myself buying another one for a long time. I think you, and others (you're not alone), frequently make the mistake of calling an unforgiving car a "driver's" car. a chassis that is difficult to handle should not be considered a virtue. hell, I could build a car that is difficult to handle, but I wouldn't be proud of it. I'd much sooner praise a car that is forgiving and easy and fun to handle at the limits (which is far more difficult to achieve). that's what we're all about here, isn't it? none of us are pro drivers - we're talking about road cars used for occasional track days.

Amen. Well said.

[Wendall]

Originally Posted by klammer

+1

+3

[mattixxg]

Originally Posted by Haywood

Here we go again.

Why roll eyes?
That thing did 7:08 at the Nur ring...do you have any idea how fast that is?

[ki__]

Originally Posted by mattixxg

Why roll eyes?
That thing did 7:08 at the Nur ring...do you have any idea how fast that is?

We all know how fast a GTR is.

[USCTrojanMan29]

There are a number of cars that are faster than the GT3 but the handling of a GT3 is superior. The car feels like it's on rails (kinda like a high horsepower gokart) with basically no body roll going through turns. An M3 and a GT3 are two different cars and shouldn't really be compared against each other because each one has their pros and cons (that's coming from someone who used to know an E46 and E92 M3).

[klammer]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

There are a number of cars that are faster than the GT3 but the handling of a GT3 is superior. The car feels like it's on rails (kinda like a high horsepower gokart) with basically no body roll going through turns. An M3 and a GT3 are two different cars and shouldn't really be compared against each other because each one has their pros and cons (that's coming from someone who used to know an E46 and E92 M3).

Well said.

[Haywood]

Originally Posted by mattixxg

Why roll eyes?
That thing did 7:08 at the Nur ring...do you have any idea how fast that is?

I'm not getting into another pissing match with another GTR fanboy. When a MAJORITY of magazines and professional drivers call the GTR a better car than the GT3, then I'll believe it. Until then, they're not even in the same category. I highly doubt Nissan will ever surpass the performance of a GT3 given the years of development and pedigree of Porsche.

[Haywood]

[klammer]

Originally Posted by Lute

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by Lute

HAHAHA. Where do you come up with these?

[ChrisF]

That is awesome!

Different tools for different jobs.

The GT3 is simply amazing. It gives feedback like no car I have ever driven. It handles differently than most other cars due to the rear weight bias. It challenges and rewards its driver if driven well. It can save you if you suck and reward you even further if you turn all the electronics off.

M3 is amazing in its own right. I did a 1500 mile road trip in one with a bunch of friends, mostly in exotics. It held it's own and it never once made my injured back hurt. I can't say the same for my GT3 with carbon buckets.

GTR is a different kettle of fish. Throws amazing numbers and makes performance accessible to anyone. Not everyone has great driving skills nor wants to learn them. It's not a sin to just want to go fast.

The attitude I'll never understand is that X is better than Y. As long as they make my adrenaline pump and my spine tingle, they're all good

[M5Rlz]

lol its hilarious that anyone cares about lap times...

Think about it from other perspectives.

Just because you bought the driver Tiger Woods uses doesn't mean you're Tiger Woods.

Just because you bought the green Jlo dress doesn't make you Jlo

People should focus on their own driving abilities not almost unattainable lap times that very few could get near or post regardless of the car you get to drive.


All these cars are great cars. M3, GTR, GT3.

[GreeKon]

Originally Posted by Lute

Lol this fucking guy. I feel like we shoulda been stepbrothers.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Brosef

dude, you really need to chill out and ease off the hyperbole. Porsche's aren't without competition.

we have a member on here that just posted a n'ring lap time of 7:37 in his e92. he's no pro driver, it wasn't a closed off course (he encountered traffic) and his car isn't modified with anything crazy (no supercharger or significant HP mods). that's pretty damn impressive, and I believe that's faster than a 997.2 GT3. I'd say that speaks to his capabilities as a driver first and the greatness of the e9x M3 platform second.

and quit bitching about the M3 GTS not besting the GT3. if all BMW cared about was lap times and keeping you from posting snarky remarks about it, they would have put much bigger and stickier rubber on it. but that wasn't their intent. they aimed to create a car that handles extremely well at the limit and is much more approachable than a 911, which is so incredibly unforgiving that I don't see myself buying another one for a long time. I think you, and others (you're not alone), frequently make the mistake of calling an unforgiving car a "driver's" car. a chassis that is difficult to handle should not be considered a virtue. hell, I could build a car that is difficult to handle, but I wouldn't be proud of it. I'd much sooner praise a car that is forgiving and easy and fun to handle at the limits (which is far more difficult to achieve). that's what we're all about here, isn't it? none of us are pro drivers - we're talking about road cars used for occasional track days.

Hmm...can't agree on a lot of what you said. The GT3 has limits no BMW could approach. Higher limits require more skill. I have a lot of experience with GT3s and it is a car that makes most others feel edgy. In fact I believe Sutcliffe said that almost verbatim when comparing it to the 458.
The 991 is one of the EASIEST cars to drive fast and handles again better than anything bmw. Read any comparo and that's why is been getting heralded probably more than any other 911 and has...and that's saying a lot.
Geez, two years in a row the 911 has been named the best drivers car and one year it was the AWD 4S against a field of RWD cars. Again says a lot. Then drive one and see why it's raised the bar even higher. It's almost too good. It exciting, sounds great and has precision and feel most cars still only dream about. And unlike M cars they are fun to drive at slow and fast speeds whereas the bmw is mundane unless you're beating on it. The GT3, well I won't go there since we know its the king and many are complaining its incredibly high limits are too accessible.
Sorry but the m3 gts was not even remotely close to even the 2006 GT3 let alone a version of the same year as the GTS.
Yes, most of predominantly use our cars on the street and that's where the supreme feel and precision of a car like a 911 is the ultimate. Also, cayman and boxsters have more accessible limits than our m3s and on a back road will own anything bmw yet too many people want to whine because they can't brag about power. Under 100k nothing compares to them.

Btw a 991S ran 7:37 and so did the 997.2 GT3 but they do it in stock form. Please send me link to said time. No stock e92 m3 is even close to those times, can't even break 8:00. I'm guessing the f8x will break into the 7:5x finally!

[NBTBRV8]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Hmm...can't agree on a lot of what you said. The GT3 has limits no BMW could approach. Higher limits require more skill. I have a lot of experience with GT3s and it is a car that makes most others feel edgy. In fact I believe Sutcliffe said that almost verbatim when comparing it to the 458.
The 991 is one of the EASIEST cars to drive fast and handles again better than anything bmw. Read any comparo and that's why is been getting heralded probably more than any other 911 and has...and that's saying a lot.
Geez, two years in a row the 911 has been named the best drivers car and one year it was the AWD 4S against a field of RWD cars. Again says a lot. Then drive one and see why it's raised the bar even higher. It's almost too good. It exciting, sounds great and has precision and feel most cars still only dream about. And unlike M cars they are fun to drive at slow and fast speeds whereas the bmw is mundane unless you're beating on it. The GT3, well I won't go there since we know its the king and many are complaining its incredibly high limits are too accessible.
Sorry but the m3 gts was not even remotely close to even the 2006 GT3 let alone a version of the same year as the GTS.
Yes, most of predominantly use our cars on the street and that's where the supreme feel and precision of a car like a 911 is the ultimate. Also, cayman and boxsters have more accessible limits than our m3s and on a back road will own anything bmw yet too many people want to whine because they can't brag about power. Under 100k nothing compares to them.

Btw a 991S ran 7:37 and so did the 997.2 GT3 but they do it in stock form. Please send me link to said time. No stock e92 m3 is even close to those times, can't even break 8:00. I'm guessing the f8x will break into the 7:5x finally!

+1, spot on.

They are two different cars, the GT3 is leagues ahead as a performance sport car, the M3 is a performance sedan/coupe, not a sports car.

[Grail05]

fawk my buddy of mine just message me last night if i want to buy his 09 or 10 gt3 at a good price.

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Hmm...can't agree on a lot of what you said. The GT3 has limits no BMW could approach. Higher limits require more skill. I have a lot of experience with GT3s and it is a car that makes most others feel edgy. In fact I believe Sutcliffe said that almost verbatim when comparing it to the 458.
The 991 is one of the EASIEST cars to drive fast and handles again better than anything bmw. Read any comparo and that's why is been getting heralded probably more than any other 911 and has...and that's saying a lot.
Geez, two years in a row the 911 has been named the best drivers car and one year it was the AWD 4S against a field of RWD cars. Again says a lot. Then drive one and see why it's raised the bar even higher. It's almost too good. It exciting, sounds great and has precision and feel most cars still only dream about. And unlike M cars they are fun to drive at slow and fast speeds whereas the bmw is mundane unless you're beating on it. The GT3, well I won't go there since we know its the king and many are complaining its incredibly high limits are too accessible.
Sorry but the m3 gts was not even remotely close to even the 2006 GT3 let alone a version of the same year as the GTS.
Yes, most of predominantly use our cars on the street and that's where the supreme feel and precision of a car like a 911 is the ultimate. Also, cayman and boxsters have more accessible limits than our m3s and on a back road will own anything bmw yet too many people want to whine because they can't brag about power. Under 100k nothing compares to them.

Btw a 991S ran 7:37 and so did the 997.2 GT3 but they do it in stock form. Please send me link to said time. No stock e92 m3 is even close to those times, can't even break 8:00. I'm guessing the f8x will break into the 7:5x finally!

I'll keep this brief as I can.

first, find me any car that has won more comparison tests than the e90 M3 - you won't. it even won a comparison against a 911 Turbo and GT-R as well as a head-to-head against the 997.2 C2. those are cars the M3 doesn't compete with at all, but the M3 won because you can't beat the overall package (no car does so many things so well) and the reviewers just had fun driving it - it's no secret that it's a sweetheart to drive.

second, BMW has not attempted to make a sports car that meets most definitions. if they wanted to make a car to compete head-to-head with the GT3, they wouldn't have started with the M3, which was never designed as a sports car.

third, show me anyone complaining that the limits of the GT3 (or any 911, for that matter) are too accessible. that's complete BS.

fourth, if the 991 is receiving more praise than previous 911's for being easier to drive, that's obviously not surprising. they lengthened the wheelbase to increase stability, and I would argue this statement says less about how easy the 991 is to drive at the limits and more about how difficult it was to drive previous generations at the limit (it's always been nicknamed the widow-maker for a reason).

lastly, let me just ask you a personal question. if everything BMW makes is completely inferior to what Porsche does, why the hell aren't you driving a Porsche and why are you wasting your time on M3post? why not move on over to Rennlist? as a side note, I don't actually believe you own an M3.

I think I'd have an easier time putting up with your die-hard Porsche BS if you just used facts and quit using so much hyperbole. not every car Porsche has ever made is the best in the world ever. they've made some shit cars, too. I actually like a lot of Porsches (I've owned one, and my Dad is on his 4th 911 - a 991 C2S) and hope/intend to own others in the future, but when I do I'm not going to jerk myself off about how it's the best car ever.

[Billj747]

Originally Posted by Brosef

we have a member on here that just posted a n'ring lap time of 7:37 in his e92. he's no pro driver, it wasn't a closed off course (he encountered traffic) and his car isn't modified with anything crazy (no supercharger or significant HP mods). that's pretty damn impressive, and I believe that's faster than a 997.2 GT3. I'd say that speaks to his capabilities as a driver first and the greatness of the e9x M3 platform second.

Really? Specs of the car/link?

[slicer]

Originally Posted by Brosef

I'll keep this brief as I can.

first, find me any car that has won more comparison tests than the e90 M3 - you won't. it even won a comparison against a 911 Turbo and GT-R as well as a head-to-head against the 997.2 C2. those are cars the M3 doesn't compete with at all, but the M3 won because you can't beat the overall package (no car does so many things so well) and the reviewers just had fun driving it - it's no secret that it's a sweetheart to drive.

second, BMW has not attempted to make a sports car that meets most definitions. if they wanted to make a car to compete head-to-head with the GT3, they wouldn't have started with the M3, which was never designed as a sports car.

third, show me anyone complaining that the limits of the GT3 (or any 911, for that matter) are too accessible. that's complete BS.

fourth, if the 991 is receiving more praise than previous 911's for being easier to drive, that's obviously not surprising. they lengthened the wheelbase to increase stability, and I would argue this statement says less about how easy the 991 is to drive at the limits and more about how difficult it was to drive previous generations at the limit (it's always been nicknamed the widow-maker for a reason).

lastly, let me just ask you a personal question. if everything BMW makes is completely inferior to what Porsche does, why the hell aren't you driving a Porsche and why are you wasting your time on M3post? why not move on over to Rennlist? as a side note, I don't actually believe you own an M3.

I think I'd have an easier time putting up with your die-hard Porsche BS if you just used facts and quit using so much hyperbole. not every car Porsche has ever made is the best in the world ever. they've made some shit cars, too. I actually like a lot of Porsches (I've owned one, and my Dad is on his 4th 911 - a 991 C2S) and hope/intend to own others in the future, but when I do I'm not going to jerk myself off about how it's the best car ever.

Well said but good luck getting him to understand reason. I argued with him about the M3 vs Cayman S and I currently have both cars. Porsche can do no wrong in his world. The Cayman is a great car but it's not without faults.... Understeer with stock suspension is scary and the 987.1 version has oiling issues on the track. The GT3 is the holy grail of Porsches and worthy of praise but the brand is not without faults. Porsches aren't as bomb proof on the track as most people believe.

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by Soorena

It's PDK only. Porsche did a huge mistake by not offering a manual.

how is it a "mistake"? besides the old aged feeling of liking shifting gears and using a 3rd pedal, dual clutch mechanisms are infinitely superior to a manual.... faster and more accurate shifts, rev matching, etc.


and yes, I've driven a 997 GT3 (non rs) on PBIR, and it was by far the best car I've driven... just an absolutely magical car on the track

[ki__]

Originally Posted by ssabripo

how is it a "mistake"? besides the old aged feeling of liking shifting gears and using a 3rd pedal, dual clutch mechanisms are infinitely superior to a manual.... faster and more accurate shifts, rev matching, etc.

and yes, I've driven a 997 GT3 (non rs) on PBIR, and it was by far the best car I've driven... just an absolutely magical car on the track

I think he meant that they should have at least allowed the option to have a manual. If everyone was going Dual Clutch only, Porsche always stood out as the "manual saver" and it's a shame they didn't allow a manual as an option, even if it was a cost I'm sure 99% that want a manual would do it.

OH and for those that want that M3 Nring lap time. Here is the link:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...highlight=luke

[Soorena]

Originally Posted by ssabripo

how is it a "mistake"? besides the old aged feeling of liking shifting gears and using a 3rd pedal, dual clutch mechanisms are infinitely superior to a manual.... faster and more accurate shifts, rev matching, etc.


and yes, I've driven a 997 GT3 (non rs) on PBIR, and it was by far the best car I've driven... just an absolutely magical car on the track

Perhaps going fast isn't the only subject that matters? Since we are at adding things that help GT3 go faster, why not throw a pair of turbos to go faster? And add AWD to have more traction to go even faster? There is the Turbo for the folks who want to go fast. The GT3 is (was) for a different crowd.

BTW, I'm a Real Madrid die hard fan too.