BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
EXXEL Distributions
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-17-2018, 02:27 PM   #1
MaximusB
Captain
777
Rep
885
Posts

Drives: 13 Frozen White E92
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (0)

Beginner HPDE setup

Hello,

I signed up for a few HPDE events for next year, first one starts in May. This will be my first time on the track. Previously I have done a few car control clincs with my E92 and some autocross with my other car.

This being my first time driving on the track I want to make sure I prep the car properly. What are the things that is a must do before going on the track?
Based on what I gathered through this forum and talking to other people, the brakes on this car tends to fade rather quick. So thatís what I want to address first, even though some people suggested the stock setup is eough for beginner. Since I will be doing at least 3 HPDE, chances are I will need to replace the brakes at some point in between events. So why not do it before the first one and have one less thing to worry about to start.

So brake wise Iím thinking of just doing pads and fluid first. Get through the season and see if I need to upgrade.

Fluid: still researching but I think Iíve narrow down to castrol or motul.
Pads: seems like PFC are the better choice. I want something that I can use on the street as well as able to handle track duty. Anything else you guys can recommend?

Any other advice for a beginner? My goal is to stay safe, have fun and avoid any potential breakdown. Iím not worry about going fast around the track, Iím sure that will come with time and practice.
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2018, 02:41 PM   #2
kpewpew
Major
kpewpew's Avatar
United_States
634
Rep
1,142
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

There is a lot of existing writing about this, check out

http://racetrackdriving.com/tech/first-event-car-prep/
__________________
2011 AW E92 M3 | DCT/Comp/Prem/Tech/CF roof
Rotora BBK 6p/380mm + 4p/355mm | APEX EC-7 NT01 & SM-10 MPSS | JRZ RS One & Hyperco 550/800 | Dinan front sway bar & FCAB monoballs | GTS lip & wing | Bomiz valvetronic muffler | ESS ECU tune | GTS DCT tune | Slon Workshop DCT pan | Recaro PP
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2018, 02:30 AM   #3
MaximusB
Captain
777
Rep
885
Posts

Drives: 13 Frozen White E92
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
There is a lot of existing writing about this, check out

http://racetrackdriving.com/tech/first-event-car-prep/
Thanks for the link! The event organizer sent out a package with similar information already.

I would like to address the pads and fluid before the first event. I guess I should be more clear with my post. Iím just a little confused/overwhelm with all the available options and info. Ultimately I would like to change the pads and fluid so it can handle a few HPDE and still streetable.
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2018, 09:39 AM   #4
Montaver
Lieutenant
Montaver's Avatar
536
Rep
590
Posts

Drives: M2C
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

I went for Castrol SRF and PFC Z rated pads, brakes felt great. Pedal is firmer and more confidence inspiring than stock. I'm going to run this same setup for my next HPDE, once I feel these are no longer good enough i'll move to a proper track pad.
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2018, 01:07 PM   #5
aus
Major General
United_States
594
Rep
8,754
Posts

Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

iTrader: (10)

Regardless of what anyone says, just stay stock except for the fluid.
I've been in cars with instructor (may used to race or still race) who were flying around the track in completely stock cars. One fast guy was in an F30 328 on run flats and was flying around the track. Same guy took his stock F150 out and wasn't easy to catch.
.
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
Appreciate 2
PACarGuy309.50
dbyrd157.00

      11-18-2018, 01:23 PM   #6
tdott
Colonel
972
Rep
2,124
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South FL / 6ix

iTrader: (3)

Agree. There are no ďmust doĒ mods. Itís acutally better to start stock and add changes gradually based on how you feel the car is doing in your hands.

For pads, there arent really any great dual purpose pads. If you can handle swapping pads yourself I recommend swapping in front track pads for the track days. Itís part of my track prep, where I swap my wheels on, bleed the brakes/flush if needed and swap my pads and it doesnít take too long because you already have the wheels off each corner.

Before any mods, do make sure your car is in tip top shape with all fluids within there known intervolts, all bushings and balljoints checked, wheels tires checked, alignment in check.

See how you do for the first couple of track days then go from there.
Appreciate 1
PACarGuy309.50

      11-19-2018, 02:55 PM   #7
PACarGuy
Captain
PACarGuy's Avatar
United_States
310
Rep
654
Posts

Drives: 2012 E92 M3 DCT ZCP
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Philly burbs, PA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
I would agree that nothing is a "must do" before your first event other than fresh brake fluid.

For my first HPDE in September at NJMP, I was placed in the blue (intermediate) group based on some prior on-track experience from years before. In prep, I flushed the fluid with Brembo LCF600 (similar to Motul RBF600, etc.) and swapped in Stoptech Sport pads all around. For the speeds I was going, the setup was plenty good on track, with no noticeable decline in performance. The pedal got a bit softer in the last (4th) session, but there was no decline in braking power or noticeable fade. And they seemed to wear pretty well and likely could have done at least one more HPDE. I'm still running them on the street because they are quiet and work well even in temps under 40 degrees F.

For your first event, I'd say check to make sure your stock pads and rotors have plenty of life left, flush the fluid with some higher temp stuff (Castrol SRF is good but pricey, Motul, Brembo, etc.) and go for it. If you find the stock brakes aren't enough, then think about some higher temp pads.
__________________
2012 E92 M3 | ZCP | DCT | Space Grey Metallic | Black Novillo | BE Bearings | CF Rear Spoiler, Diffuser, Front Splitters | Black grill + side gills | DTEC 160W Angel Eyes
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2018, 06:23 PM   #8
MaximusB
Captain
777
Rep
885
Posts

Drives: 13 Frozen White E92
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (0)

I think I will change the pads and fluid prior to the first event. Right now Bimmerworld is selling PFC 06 for 50% off but only have fronts left. Can I use PFC 06 in the front and PFC 08 in the back? Fluid wise, I'm leaning towards Motul 600.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2018, 01:53 AM   #9
Ximian
.
Ximian's Avatar
United_States
152
Rep
346
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: MN

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximusB View Post
I think I will change the pads and fluid prior to the first event. Right now Bimmerworld is selling PFC 06 for 50% off but only have fronts left. Can I use PFC 06 in the front and PFC 08 in the back? Fluid wise, I'm leaning towards Motul 600.
Those should be fine. Even fresh stock fluid will be fine unless it's a very hot day on a track with long, heavy braking zones.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2018, 02:45 AM   #10
MaximusB
Captain
777
Rep
885
Posts

Drives: 13 Frozen White E92
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ximian View Post
Those should be fine. Even fresh stock fluid will be fine unless it's a very hot day on a track with long, heavy braking zones.
Thanks!

Also what do you track guys do with the brake of sensors? Unclip it from the caliber and zip tie to the car? Will the car still throw the service reminder if you do that?
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2018, 11:54 AM   #11
Ximian
.
Ximian's Avatar
United_States
152
Rep
346
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: MN

iTrader: (0)

Remove them altogether as they're likely to get banged up against the wheel or worst-case, they may get torn off. I have been ignoring the service reminder for over a year as it's wasteful to keep replacing the sensors.

As the plastic on the sensor has likely melted from usual braking on the road, it's difficult to remove it from the pads without braking the plastic that helps hold the sensor in place. You will probably not be able to reinstall it again.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2018, 03:47 PM   #12
MaximusB
Captain
777
Rep
885
Posts

Drives: 13 Frozen White E92
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (0)

Good to know, thanks!

Are the PFC Z rated pads good enough for beginner track use? I tried searching and feedback varies.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2018, 04:59 PM   #13
kpewpew
Major
kpewpew's Avatar
United_States
634
Rep
1,142
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

PFC Z rated should be enough to get started. Heck my first couple track days with my E92 M3, I used the stock pads. I was still getting used to the car, so pace was far slower and braking much less aggressive than today.
__________________
2011 AW E92 M3 | DCT/Comp/Prem/Tech/CF roof
Rotora BBK 6p/380mm + 4p/355mm | APEX EC-7 NT01 & SM-10 MPSS | JRZ RS One & Hyperco 550/800 | Dinan front sway bar & FCAB monoballs | GTS lip & wing | Bomiz valvetronic muffler | ESS ECU tune | GTS DCT tune | Slon Workshop DCT pan | Recaro PP
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2018, 08:31 PM   #14
bigjae1976
Major General
bigjae1976's Avatar
736
Rep
7,335
Posts

Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (15)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
5 years ago, I would agree that these cars need nothing. But there is a must do...maintenance. These cars are at least 6 years old now.

Check anything rubber, especially engine mounts. Tie rods, control arms...AND CHANGE THE WHEEL LUGS!!! Lastly...fresh fluids, good tires, and fresh brake pads.

I think it is preferable to use a high temp track pad and high temp fluid. The last thing a novice needs to deal with is wondering if the brakes will still work. I'm sure your instructor would appreciate that.
__________________
2015 F34 328iX GT Glacier Silver
2011 E90 M3 Monte Carlo Blue
2004 E46 M3 Imola Red
Appreciate 1
PACarGuy309.50

      11-20-2018, 08:41 PM   #15
roastbeef
Major General
roastbeef's Avatar
United_States
5901
Rep
9,728
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (2)

brake fluid is a good idea right off the bat.

i'm a fan of just running the car. the car will let you know what it needs as you progress as a driver. this comes faster/slower depending on your skill, frequency of tracking, and how active you are at seeking knowledge. there is no replacement for seat time.
__________________
Instagram; @roastbeefmike
Appreciate 3
kpewpew634.00
MaximusB776.50
PACarGuy309.50

      11-20-2018, 09:04 PM   #16
elim11
Major
361
Rep
1,296
Posts

Drives: e90m3
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: irvine/sf

iTrader: (13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
brake fluid is a good idea right off the bat.

i'm a fan of just running the car. the car will let you know what it needs as you progress as a driver. this comes faster/slower depending on your skill, frequency of tracking, and how active you are at seeking knowledge. there is no replacement for seat time.
+100. Just get out and have fun and learn. You'll figure all that out later.
__________________
Appreciate 2
kpewpew634.00
MaximusB776.50

      11-21-2018, 03:56 PM   #17
MaximusB
Captain
777
Rep
885
Posts

Drives: 13 Frozen White E92
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (0)

Lots of good points made. Thanks guys!

I've decided that I will just stick with PFC Z rated pads and fluid (motul 600) for the first event. Then, like you guys suggested, evaluate and see what will be needed as I progress.

Car itself will be getting a full inspection in the Spring when I take it out of storage after winter.
Appreciate 1
      11-21-2018, 07:15 PM   #18
Chris_PDX
First Lieutenant
210
Rep
319
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, E46 M3, NA Miata
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2002 BMW M3  [0.00]
2012 BMW M3 Coupe  [0.00]
Are you in Vancouver, WA or Vancouver, BC?

As others suggest, echo the Motul 600 and upgraded pads. The E92 is a heavy motherfucker, and the OEM brakes are the weakest point on these cars when pushed hard. I will destroy them in less than a day if I drive the nuts off it.
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2018, 07:17 PM   #19
MaximusB
Captain
777
Rep
885
Posts

Drives: 13 Frozen White E92
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_PDX View Post
Are you in Vancouver, WA or Vancouver, BC?

As others suggest, echo the Motul 600 and upgraded pads. The E92 is a heavy motherfucker, and the OEM brakes are the weakest point on these cars when pushed hard. I will destroy them in less than a day if I drive the nuts off it.
I'm in Vancouver BC. Will be doing HPDE down at the Ridge down in Shelton WA and also Area 27 in Oliver BC.
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2018, 02:31 AM   #20
aus
Major General
United_States
594
Rep
8,754
Posts

Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

iTrader: (10)

I really don't think it's a good idea to get track pads from day one. I ran stock for 2 events, then Stoptech Sports. Then got Stoptech BBK with Sport pads and after about 6 events, go track pads. Couple events ago, I forgot my track pads and just used the Sport pads I run daily and they were fine. Just had to adjust my brake points.

You really won't be going that fast for a few events if you've never tracked before. You just won't know how slow you are and you'll still have a blast.
.
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2018, 07:28 AM   #21
rhyary
Captain
United_States
181
Rep
717
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Albany, NY

iTrader: (0)

I started two years ago tracking the M3.
I don't think any modification is necessary, mods are nice, but not necessary. However, the OEM setup and equipment consumes itself at a rate that is nothing like the road.

So depending on your drivings style, track layout and how much you would like to push the car, you need to make sure the OEM equipment is at its best.

So, rather than fancy brake fluid, get a fresh fluid and bleed. Rather that fancy brakes, make sure the pads are new and the rotors are not on the margin.

The single most important change from a cost perspective is camber. I basically destroyed two front PS4S on two track days by taking the outside to the cores.

My advice is to pull the pins out and do -1.8 front camber.

Final words, make sure the OEM M3 consumables are on the newer side and drive the car on MDM as hard as you can while keeping the body work shiny.

If you GoPro-ing your session, use external microphone on the rear bumper to truly enjoy the videos and admire your accomplishments.
Appreciate 2
PACarGuy309.50
dbyrd157.00

      12-26-2018, 08:33 PM   #22
pruettfan
Brigadier General
1491
Rep
3,403
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2, LBB, DCT, Exec
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oro Valley, AZ

iTrader: (0)

I know this post is a month or so old but I have to chime in. Proper brake pads and fluid are really needed for safety reasons pretty early on. I suspect most can get away with several track days without a problem because few will learn to brake hard enough in an HPDE environment for a fair amount of time. The problem with running stock pads and fluid is you will find out that you have exceeded their performance envelope on the track which can ruin your day. Point is plan ahead, proper brake fluid is cheap and proper track pads are a good investment. BTW there is no such thing as a pad that is good for street and track so a dedicated set for each condition with a quick swap on Friday night is really the way to go.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:20 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST