E92 M3 - Metallic clunk / grind on cold start (With 3 Videos + Image of Noise)

[anom3]

double post, sorry, bad internet connection.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by anom3

here is a video i recorded with the intake manifold off and my head under the hood.

the sound is quite distinct here, and sounds 'worst' in real life.

It's realy impossible to locate the clunk in video !
Thanks again man for posting the video because i know it's work !
And what i realy start to believe is......
It's realy hard to believe that till today and after 7 year's that BMW has no solution for this clunk noise ,it makes sound there ///M cars.. and so i think there proud... sounding like a tractor from WW II ,no i'm wrong.. it's even worse !!!
Also the threads on here with the clunk noise in video's is not realy good publicity for the ///M brand !
When i was not the owner of an ///M car and saw these video with a clunk from WW II ,i never would buy a car like this even not when it was for free !!!
Amen.....

[Race_Doc11]

1- Keyfob in my pocket (my car is a convertible has easy access).
2-Press the start button 1st time, lights comes on with the navi.
3- Press the start button a second time the car gages become active. Car still not fired up
4- Do the brake procedure
5- Randomly the car will start just by pressing the brake.
I can duplicate it if I try the above few times. I will try to make a video and post it for you guys.
My car is bone stock with no coding or modes except a front spoiler and 2011+ taillights (not coded yet).
Could this be related to the easy access? I'm sure I had it for a while but I just discovered it.

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

So when i get this right...
1- Keyfob in
2- Brake procedure (tapping the brake )
3- And while tapping the brake pedal the car starts without pushing the start/stop engine button ?!?!
I believe you ! But never i heard or saw it before !
And personal i think this is not normal , strange things are going on with our cars ?!?!It 's almost hocus-pocus and have no explenation for it !
BTW...had or has your car some coding ?

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by racedoc11

1- Keyfob in my pocket (my car is a convertible has easy access).
2-Press the start button 1st time, lights comes on with the navi.
3- Press the start button a second time the car gages become active. Car still not fired up
4- Do the brake procedure
5- Randomly the car will start just by pressing the brake.
I can duplicate it if I try the above few times. I will try to make a video and post it for you guys.
My car is bone stock with no coding or modes except a front spoiler and 2011+ taillights (not coded yet).
Could this be related to the easy access? I'm sure I had it for a while but I just discovered it.

I see ,and maybe it's your easy access (comfort access ) but i'm not sure .
Maybe someone with comfort access can support us here for more info about this........ ?

[M3PO]

LOL, there is a solution to this and I already posted it. You guys must be in denial.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M3PO

LOL, there is a solution to this and I already posted it. You guys must be in denial.

I know that for a long time and even before in other thread's > # 73 on here >http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=996069&page=4 !So thanks man ,but the problem is that ( i ) we need to be 100 % sure before doing this !
Was it exactly the same sound that you had ? And do you have a video or sound clip of it ?
No one will touch my car before i know the cause and the solution !
And that's what i said to my BMW/Dealer too .
Damn...how is it possible that even 6 months old engines have it too ? And where is BMW ?

[M3PO]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I know that for a long time and even before in other thread's > # 73 on here >http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=996069&page=4 !So thanks man ,but the problem is that ( i ) we need to be 100 % sure before doing this !
Was it exactly the same sound that you had ? And do you have a video or sound clip of it ?
No one will touch my car before i know the cause and the solution !
And that's what i said to my BMW/Dealer too .
Damn...how is it possible that even 6 months old engines have it too ? And where is BMW ?

EXACTLY the same noise. 100% confidence.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I posted this video now 3 times on this forum ,and so here is it again to make this clunk noise very....very clear !
Note : This is not my car and actualy it is "the loudest clunk noise" i ever heard from our S65 engine !

Yours doesn't sound the same as Anom3.
Yours sounds like a starter gear hitting the flywheel.
Anom3s sounds like sound sort of valvetrain clatter.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M3PO

EXACTLY the same noise. 100% confidence.

Ok i believe you ! Know you for a long time on here and saw your skills in different threads and i realy like your car ,and have realy respect for you,no doubt !
But now the way like i think...
Replacing the Vanos Gears is the solution....
Ok i'm agreed with you , but actualy the engine becomes like it was,they are the same Vanos Gears and so the same when the car came out the factory !
So what's the difference of the factory Vanos Gears and the replaced ones ?
So it's maybe pulling out the problem, and put in the same problem back in,and i know your clunk noise is gone ?
I realy don't get this ?

[M3PO]

I totally agree with you. All I can tell you is that the noise has not come back in ~30K miles. Will it come back? Probably, because like you said, it's the same "flawed" part.

My point is, you guys are beating a dead horse here. We/I know the solution. Either live with it and hope it isn't detrimental (no clue on that one), or keep replacing the VANOS when it comes back lol!

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Ok i believe you ! Know you for a long time on here and saw your skills in different threads and i realy like your car ,and have realy respect for you,no doubt !
But now the way like i think...
Replacing the Vanos Gears is the solution....
Ok i'm agreed with you , but actualy the engine becomes like it was,they are the same Vanos Gears and so the same when the car came out the factory !
So what's the difference of the factory Vanos Gears and the replaced ones ?
So it's maybe pulling out the problem, and put in the same problem,and i know your clunk noise is gone ?
I realy don't get this ?

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Yours doesn't sound the same as Anom3.
Yours sounds like a starter gear hitting the flywheel.
Anom3s sounds like sound sort of valvetrain clatter.

"It's not my car" ! I posted this video to make the clunk noise very clear ,because it's very loud in this video !
The amount (volume) of the clunk noise that i have is about 40-50 % of the clunk noise in the video !
And it's the same sound as Anom3(100 % sure) only the intensity is different ,depends also of the recording of the video !
This clunk noise is typical for our cars but absolutely not normal !
So the cause of all the clunk noises is the same problem and cause !

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M3PO

I totally agree with you. All I can tell you is that the noise has not come back in ~30K miles. Will it come back? Probably, because like you said, it's the same "flawed" part.

My point is, you guys are beating a dead horse here. We/I know the solution. Either live with it and hope it isn't detrimental (no clue on that one), or keep replacing the VANOS when it comes back lol!

Again i'm agreed with you !
Maybe we should say BMW has build a dead horse with WW II tractor noises and bearings of a quality to bad even for a tractor ?!?!
So congrats BMW with the... "The Ultimate Driving Machine"

[Heart sound analyst]

With the frequency of that sound, has anybody considered an injector or a bad hydraulic lifter?

[anom3]

while im no expert...

wouldnt either of these happen 'all' the time?

this only happens on cold start (4+ hours sitting) and first start (even if turned off 2 secs after noise, started again, 2nd start wont have it...)....

Originally Posted by Heart sound analyst

With the frequency of that sound, has anybody considered an injector or a bad hydraulic lifter?

[Heart sound analyst]

Anom3, I am certainly no expert either. I always try to look for the simplest easiest explanations first. Regarding your question, my lifters will do that after sitting for a while, after they have bled down but it sounds like that from the first millisecond after it starts for about 2 seconds. A stuck injector because of fuel varnish possibly might be doing that. I had some very similar sounds that occurred, unlike my lifter sounds, I ran a large bottle of Techron through it and the problem resolved. Still have the lifter bleed down sounds though. always used top-tier gasoline also. If that were my car, I would do the simplest, easiest, least expensive first thing and run a whole bottle of Techron 21 gallon fuel concentrate in the tank and run that through it, it may not do a damn thing but it will clean your injectors. The frequency of the sound is what is interesting. My question is what in the S65 engine runs at that frequency? Ignition, lifters, fuel injectors. In some but those videos it sounds like an arcing spark. I'm sure that someone else smarter than I am I in this forum will help you resolve it.

[anom3]

thanks for the input. believe me, your much more knowledgeable them i.

i'm doing just what you said, trying the lowest fruit first.

would LOVE to get me a bottle of techron, i tried... but its not available in europe... i tried to sneak a sale on ebay but the seller rejected the purchase

always filling up 98 / best etc etc etc... who knows about the previous owners tho.

now, regarding frequency, you are correct:

for example, on the last video, although you cant tell just by listening there is a succession of roughly 8 "knocks". i cut the audio out and zoomed in, distinctly 8 knocks. each almost exactly 0.027 secs apart.

so yeah, frequency is something to consider.

Originally Posted by Heart sound analyst

Anom3, I am certainly no expert either. I always try to look for the simplest easiest explanations first. Regarding your question, my lifters will do that after sitting for a while, after they have bled down but it sounds like that from the first millisecond after it starts for about 2 seconds. A stuck injector because of fuel varnish possibly might be doing that. I had some very similar sounds that occurred, unlike my lifter sounds, I ran a large bottle of Techron through it and the problem resolved. Still have the lifter bleed down sounds though. always used top-tier gasoline also. If that were my car, I would do the simplest, easiest, least expensive first thing and run a whole bottle of Techron 21 gallon fuel concentrate in the tank and run that through it, it may not do a damn thing but it will clean your injectors. The frequency of the sound is what is interesting. My question is what in the S65 engine runs at that frequency? Ignition, lifters, fuel injectors. In some but those videos it sounds like an arcing spark. I'm sure that someone else smarter than I am I in this forum will help you resolve it.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by anom3

would LOVE to get me a bottle of techron, i tried... but its not available in europe... i tried to sneak a sale on ebay but the seller rejected the purchase

always filling up 98 / best etc etc etc... who knows about the previous owners tho.

I run Techron through semi-regularly. That's not the solution.

Originally Posted by M3PO

EXACTLY the same noise. 100% confidence.

Do you know the vanos gear part #? Can't isolate on your invoice. Do you know what made them focus on 1-4?

[Heart sound analyst]

anom3, I don't know where in Europe you live but it might not hurt to at least talk to these guys. http://www.mrvanos.com

[anom3]

working from memory here, it is on his invoice, but:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...22&hg=11&fg=25

they replaced gear #2 and #3.

at the same time they replaced #6 and #7 from what i recall.

i have a pair of mechanics stethoscope's coming in tomorrow, i'll see if there is anything distinctly different sounding between 1-4 and 5-8 vanoses.

will let you know.

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

I run Techron through semi-regularly. That's not the solution.



Do you know the vanos gear part #? Can't isolate on your invoice. Do you know what made them focus on 1-4?

[anom3]

*sigh* unfortunately completely on the other end of europe

i have heard of these guys before tho. my understanding is they make (aside from their repair work etc etc) aftermarket kits that are said to be better then the oem bunch.

Originally Posted by Heart sound analyst

anom3, I don't know where in Europe you live but it might not hurt to at least talk to these guys. http://www.mrvanos.com

[anom3]

my bad. they did not replace the rails.

correct on the gear 2+3 tho.

look for part nr ...116 / ...117.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8044/...75581270_b.jpg

Originally Posted by anom3

working from memory here, it is on his invoice, but:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...22&hg=11&fg=25

they replaced gear #2 and #3.

at the same time they replaced #6 and #7 from what i recall.

i have a pair of mechanics stethoscope's coming in tomorrow, i'll see if there is anything distinctly different sounding between 1-4 and 5-8 vanoses.

will let you know.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by anom3

my bad. they did not replace the rails.

correct on the gear 2+3 tho.

look for part nr ...116 / ...117.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8044/...75581270_b.jpg

Ok. And theories from anyone as to why these would only make noise on startup?