Our enemy is now even faster !

[Kong Sheng Han]

If you mean the M3's new enemy, I would like to differ. I would think it competes with the M5, no?

[Carl L]

Originally Posted by Majin Buu

That's what I will never understand. Last time I checked, the speed limit hasn't been increased. And there are no autobahns outside Germany. So if you don't go to the track, why buy those gazillion horsepower sedans? You pay more MSRP, gas guzzler tax, maintenance, insurance, and fuel costs, for what? So that you can win the Stop Light Grand Prix?

Do you also ponder why people buy a Rolex when a Seiko will tell them time just as well? Because it's their money, it makes them happy and they can.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

If you mean the M3's new enemy, I would like to differ. I would think it competes with the M5, no?

I think it's even faster than the ///M5 ....more grip with the AWD !
BTW...there are rumors....there is already a BI - turbo tune for it...680 HP !
But still prefer my ///M3

[Majin Buu]

Originally Posted by Carl L

Do you also ponder why people buy a Rolex when a Seiko will tell them time just as well?

Lol, yeah. Sometimes I do wonder about that.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by tjsabec

Car and Driver estimated base price $95,000 and estimated weight 4350 lbs... Looks like it'd compete poorly with the M5 to me.

Compete poorly?? How so? Weight and price are pretty much the same. This kind of car really benefits from AWD. The interior will be on par, and the sound is better. The M5, of course, is FAR better looking, but thats about it. And as I previously mentioned, all these cars have gotten too big and bloated to be "dynamic", so what's the big deal if a tiny bit of steering precision is lost in the AWD. The benefits here far outweigh the costs.

[dreamspeed]

Originally Posted by DMW2315

Like an enemy of your enemy is your friend?

More like Magneto and Professor X

[MDIVISION]

I didn't buy an M3 cause I wanted the "fastest car".

M3 is superior in every way IMO. Looks, handling, feel, did I mention, handling??

I would never drive a POS benz, they are garbage. garbage..

[F1Venom]

I'd take that Merc over the F10 M5 any day. Plus it sounds amazing, unlike the F10.

[FVM3]

Originally Posted by DMW2315

I'd like to take a vote to see who in here has actually flogged (and I don't mean just a quick spin down a side street) a recent C63 / E63. For those who have not, I think you guys need to before you make any judement against an AMG.

+1

[FVM3]

Originally Posted by Mloyalty

I didn't buy an M3 cause I wanted the "fastest car".

M3 is superior in every way IMO. Looks, handling, feel, did I mention, handling??

I would never drive a POS benz, they are garbage. garbage..

If i say C63 is faster then m3 at the track, you must LOL. But the truth is C63 has faster lap time in nurburgring then the e92 m3. So c63 handles like sh*t? I dont think so. I wont say c63 handles better then the m3 but at least not that bad

[track_warrior]

Who cares how fast it is, i care about the handling. If you want fast go buy a GT-500.

[TrevorM3]

Uhm, the E class was never competition for the M3. It will chew it, and spit it out anyway.


It's more like M3 vs C63.. and E vs 5 series.

[NikB316]

Not really M3 competitor but I LOVE the idea of AWD with a rear bias. 2/3 rear 1/3 front - ideal for me. I'm replacing the M3 with either this new E63 or F10 M5 around July when you can order the M3 and the E63 should be out. I was very excited when initial information on the e63 showed a DCT transmission. Honestly the regular automatic may kill the E63 idea for me. If only one of these companies would have a nice V8 TT with AWD and DCT. Audi RS7 same problem - not using their DCT! I don't understand why.

For those wondering why I am replacing the M3, I absolutely love the car but drive 3000 miles a month and want something more comfortable. I don't like the idea of a daily driver beater at all. Life is short - wouldn't I want my 100 miles a day to be in something fun? Maybe if I had a 10 mile commute I would be more open to driving a beater lol. Work trucks are understandable and those who do it for financial reasons. Then again if you are in the market for $100k car - daily or not - you can probably afford the gas and maint.

Any other suggestions I am missing? Something around $100k, comfy and potential of 500whp minimum.

This blown M3 has spoiled my performance needs

[tjsabec]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

Compete poorly?? How so? Weight and price are pretty much the same. This kind of car really benefits from AWD. The interior will be on par, and the sound is better. The M5, of course, is FAR better looking, but thats about it. And as I previously mentioned, all these cars have gotten too big and bloated to be "dynamic", so what's the big deal if a tiny bit of steering precision is lost in the AWD. The benefits here far outweigh the costs.

Well, the M5 starts at $90,200. The Mercedes starts at $95,000 and to get a limited slip differential and the increased horsepower in the mercedes you have to get the S model, so we obviously don't know the pricing, but i'd bet the mercedes is a good $15,000 more.

I would also venture to say that the BMW's DCT is better than that wet clutch transmission in the Mercedes, but again I don't know.

[F1Venom]

Originally Posted by NikB316

Not really M3 competitor but I LOVE the idea of AWD with a rear bias. 2/3 rear 1/3 front - ideal for me. I'm replacing the M3 with either this new E63 or F10 M5 around July when you can order the M3 and the E63 should be out. I was very excited when initial information on the e63 showed a DCT transmission. Honestly the regular automatic may kill the E63 idea for me. If only one of these companies would have a nice V8 TT with AWD and DCT. Audi RS7 same problem - not using their DCT! I don't understand why.

For those wondering why I am replacing the M3, I absolutely love the car but drive 3000 miles a month and want something more comfortable. I don't like the idea of a daily driver beater at all. Life is short - wouldn't I want my 100 miles a day to be in something fun? Maybe if I had a 10 mile commute I would be more open to driving a beater lol. Work trucks are understandable and those who do it for financial reasons. Then again if you are in the market for $100k car - daily or not - you can probably afford the gas and maint.

Any other suggestions I am missing? Something around $100k, comfy and potential of 500whp minimum.

This blown M3 has spoiled my performance needs

2013 CLS63 AMG (RWD). It's the best looking four door on the market, IMO.

[sensi09]

Originally Posted by Majin Buu

That's what I will never understand. Last time I checked, the speed limit hasn't been increased. And there are no autobahns outside Germany. So if you don't go to the track, why buy those gazillion horsepower sedans? You pay more MSRP, gas guzzler tax, maintenance, insurance, and fuel costs, for what? So that you can win the Stop Light Grand Prix?

With that line of thinking, you could argue that might as well get a 328 instead of a M3.

[Majin Buu]

Originally Posted by sensi09

With that line of thinking, you could argue that might as well get a 328 instead of a M3.

true. Except that i take my car to the track

[FVM3]

Originally Posted by sensi09

With that line of thinking, you could argue that might as well get a 328 instead of a M3.

+1. Not just top speed , also acceleration. Lets say a car can go up to 300mph but 0-60 takes 20s. Will you drive it to autobahn?

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by Majin Buu

That's what I will never understand. Last time I checked, the speed limit hasn't been increased. And there are no autobahns outside Germany. So if you don't go to the track, why buy those gazillion horsepower sedans? You pay more MSRP, gas guzzler tax, maintenance, insurance, and fuel costs, for what? So that you can win the Stop Light Grand Prix?

Of course.

On the other hand, your assumptions are off base.

The current E63 wagon weighs 4510 pounds (according to Motor Trend), and it is EPA rated at 15/23, losing 1 mpg to the sedan on both fronts. At a guess, the AWD 2014 sedan will come in at about the same mileage as the current wagon because of AWD, although it'll weigh 100-150 pounds less.

Both mileage numbers are pretty respectable especially if compared to the current M3.

The car costs more than an M3, but so what? It's a luxury sedan that just happens to go like a striped ape. You know. Power ash trays, quiet as a tomb at cruise, then all hell breaks loose when you punch it, and your eyeballs shorten up by a diopter or two.

So, fuel costs are down, insurance will be up due to MSRP differences, maintenance no different from other Benzes. What's the beef?

According to Car & Driver, the vehicle also just happens to be a sharper handler than the M5, although I must say I have high hopes for the new competition package about to become available on the Bimmer.

Bruce

[DMW2315]

Originally Posted by dreamspeed

More like Magneto and Professor X

haha I love it

[Majin Buu]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

Of course.

On the other hand, your assumptions are off base.

The current E63 wagon weighs 4510 pounds (according to Motor Trend), and it is EPA rated at 15/23, losing 1 mpg to the sedan on both fronts. At a guess, the AWD 2014 sedan will come in at about the same mileage as the current wagon because of AWD, although it'll weigh 100-150 pounds less.

Both mileage numbers are pretty respectable especially if compared to the current M3.

The car costs more than an M3, but so what? It's a luxury sedan that just happens to go like a striped ape. You know. Power ash trays, quiet as a tomb at cruise, then all hell breaks loose when you punch it, and your eyeballs shorten up by a diopter or two.

So, fuel costs are down, insurance will be up due to MSRP differences, maintenance no different from other Benzes. What's the beef?

According to Car & Driver, the vehicle also just happens to be a sharper handler than the M5, although I must say I have high hopes for the new competition package about to become available on the Bimmer.

Bruce

I think you missed my point. I meant why buy any M or AMG sedan compared the more entry level 5 series or E class, not compared to the older AMG E class. You can get the same luxury interior while saving a lot of money. My point is why does anyone need 500-600 hp just to drive to the store and buy groceries? Even race cars don't come with that much power. For a road car, 300-400 hp is really all you need. Anymore than that is overkill.

[lux]

Originally Posted by Majin Buu

I think you missed my point. I meant why buy any M or AMG sedan compared the more entry level 5 series or E class, not compared to the older AMG E class. You can get the same luxury interior while saving a lot of money. My point is why does anyone need 500-600 hp just to drive to the store and buy groceries? Even race cars don't come with that much power. For a road car, 300-400 hp is really all you need. Anymore than that is overkill.

There really is no NEED for these cars but this is all about desire and luxury at this level. AWD makes sense for the E63 and will allow maximum use of all that excess engine power. I look forward to comparisons between the M5 Competition Package versus the E63S.