BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
BPM
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-31-2017, 01:55 PM   #1
muffinman92
Enlisted Member
4
Rep
44
Posts

Drives: e92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Modesto, Ca

iTrader: (2)

Test Pipe and CEL Questions, O2 SPacers

Hello,

I am interested in getting a set of test pipes for my car and had a few questions that seem to have unclear answers. I will not be tuning the car as I do not want to mess with the software. I would like my mod to be reversible if needed so I do not want the ECU touched. I was wondering how fast does the CEL appear once cleared? Every 100? 200? 1000 miles?


I would also like to know if anyone has been able to prolong this period by having a sort of O2 spacer/defouler added. I know some people have said it does not work to permanently fix the CEL, but I am simply trying to extend the time between clearing CEL's if possible. Would the spacer be added to the second bung of the test pipe or somewhere on the midpipe?

Any input helps.
Appreciate 0
      02-01-2017, 11:18 PM   #2
NTAC
New Member
United_States
2
Rep
23
Posts

Drives: '11 E90 M3
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (1)

CEL popped pretty quick for me. <50 miles I'd guess. Installed BPM tune soon after.
Appreciate 0
      02-01-2017, 11:23 PM   #3
Cbozz
Colonel
Cbozz's Avatar
United_States
376
Rep
2,239
Posts

Drives: M3 and X5
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: South Florida/ St. Louis

iTrader: (18)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinman92 View Post
Hello,

I am interested in getting a set of test pipes for my car and had a few questions that seem to have unclear answers. I will not be tuning the car as I do not want to mess with the software. I would like my mod to be reversible if needed so I do not want the ECU touched. I was wondering how fast does the CEL appear once cleared? Every 100? 200? 1000 miles?


I would also like to know if anyone has been able to prolong this period by having a sort of O2 spacer/defouler added. I know some people have said it does not work to permanently fix the CEL, but I am simply trying to extend the time between clearing CEL's if possible. Would the spacer be added to the second bung of the test pipe or somewhere on the midpipe?

Any input helps.
i think macht schnell and fabspeed sell spacers with mini cats in them so you never throw a cel...

or you can get a cheaper alternative https://www.amazon.com/Minicat-Senso.../dp/B00CBKEC06
__________________
Evolve, Eisenmann, Strasse, StopTech, Active Autowerke
Appreciate 0
      02-02-2017, 12:44 AM   #4
OneSickM
Captain
OneSickM's Avatar
98
Rep
736
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: ---

iTrader: (2)

I have been searching for an answer the last 5 days and all I got is it doesn't work and ECU will detect that you had CAT delete and would trigger CEL sooner or later.
Appreciate 0
      02-02-2017, 08:05 AM   #5
Redd
Lieutenant Colonel
792
Rep
1,580
Posts

Drives: 2010 BMW E92 M3 Dakar Edition
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Malaysia

iTrader: (0)

A remap is reversible.
Appreciate 0
      02-02-2017, 09:03 AM   #6
deansbimmer
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
deansbimmer's Avatar
United_States
2708
Rep
2,696
Posts


Drives: 2011 E93 M3
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: DFW, Texas

iTrader: (17)

Garage List
1988 BMW M3  [0.00]
2013 BMW M3  [0.00]
2011 X5M  [0.00]
2011 BMW M3  [0.00]
Catalysts are checked by the DME every drive cycle. You WILL get a CEL...Spacers don't work. The sensor will still pick up the exhaust flow.

Just get a proper tune. It installs in minutes and can be reverted in minutes...
Appreciate 0
      02-02-2017, 05:46 PM   #7
BigRussia
Captain
BigRussia's Avatar
113
Rep
959
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (5)

Im running a completely catless and resonator less IPE F1 xpipe for over a month now and I've yet to have a CEL. My car is completely stock besides the exhaust (so no tune) unless PO coded out the cat CEL already somehow but they never changed or messed with the cats so I dont know why they would.
__________________
2004E46M36MTCBCinn
2011.5E92M3ZCP6MTLOL
"Life's too short to be driving boring cars"
Appreciate 0
      02-03-2017, 07:35 AM   #8
pbonsalb
Major General
2696
Rep
7,200
Posts

Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Concord, NH

iTrader: (3)

If a catless E9xM3 is not throwing emissions CEL, there is an explanation. Such as it has been tuned. Notice people selling x pipes because they are getting rid of the car and selling it with the stock one?
Appreciate 0
      02-03-2017, 12:43 PM   #9
Kwike92M3
Private First Class
52
Rep
123
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3 Supercharged
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Dallas

iTrader: (1)

Check engine light WILL set. Period.
The entire purpose of the after cat (referred to as post cat or sensor 2) is to read the emissions after being processed through the catalytic converter. If there is no drop in voltage seen by the 2nd sensor in reference to the 1st sensor in the exhaust stream, then the DME will flag a pending code, then a present code, which will produce a check engine light.

Using an O2 simulator is not usually a viable option for BMW owners, as it has very mixed results. Same for spacing the O2 sensor away from the exhaust stream.

The only way to eliminate check engine lights from cats being removed is to remove the test from the DME by tuning it out. This will still allow the vehicle to be inspected in most states as the software simply produces a "not applicable" or "not ready" result for the DME readiness status. If you are going to sell the car, the factory software just has to be flashed back into the DME. This does not damage the vehicle, and is not detectable by any scan tools.

As far as engine safety and performance: nothing is changed. The ONLY job of a downstream O2 sensor is to monitor the catalyst. They will not alter or affect the A/F mixture like an upstream "02 sensor" (read: A/F sensor). You still have full functionality of the DME's ability to detect other sensor malfunctions, as well as the use of safety protocol.

Unfortunately, there is no 100% quick AND easy fix for this. Have the car tuned, or simply use a cat back system of your choice and retain the factory catalysts.
Appreciate 0
      02-03-2017, 03:58 PM   #10
pbonsalb
Major General
2696
Rep
7,200
Posts

Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Concord, NH

iTrader: (3)

I tried the vibrant 02 spacers/reducers and they did not work. I did not turn them towards the engine, but I did try all 3 reducer fittings to limit the amount of air to the sensor.
Appreciate 0
      02-03-2017, 05:34 PM   #11
OneSickM
Captain
OneSickM's Avatar
98
Rep
736
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: ---

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
I tried the vibrant 02 spacers/reducers and they did not work. I did not turn them towards the engine, but I did try all 3 reducer fittings to limit the amount of air to the sensor.
Why did the person above you delete the comment ? I was going to try his solution. Did his CEL came after he posted the comment? Lol
Appreciate 0
      02-03-2017, 08:19 PM   #12
pbonsalb
Major General
2696
Rep
7,200
Posts

Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Concord, NH

iTrader: (3)

I don't know, but you can try what he did pretty cheaply with some amazon or ebay 90 degree extenders and something to restrict flow to the sensor. Maybe it will work for some people.
Appreciate 0
      02-04-2017, 12:45 PM   #13
BPMSport
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
BPMSport's Avatar
United_States
2322
Rep
7,224
Posts


Drives: Harrop M3 / F10 M5 / F82 M4
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (9)

Garage List
2000 BMW M5  [0.00]
1990 BMW 735i Turbo  [0.00]
2008 BMW M3  [3.75]
2015 BMW M3  [0.00]
2015 BMW M5  [0.00]
Extenders aren't going to work on catless cars. You can get away with them in some cases with 200HFC setups.

Proper tune is best avenue.
__________________

-----| Like us on Facebook | Instagram || Tuning Information | Remote Coding |-----
----Visit us at www.BPMSport.com - Emotion. Driven. | Toll Free: (888) 557-5133----
Appreciate 0
      02-04-2017, 02:12 PM   #14
Solo_M_Tech
Colonel
Solo_M_Tech's Avatar
United_States
1457
Rep
2,978
Posts

Drives: E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Central Florida

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [5.00]
You will need a tune. 100%. I also don't understand. You want the mods to be reversible. So you are ok with installing test pipes, which is cutting and clamping ( can't be reversed without welding the OE cat's back on which makes it obvious it's been fucked with) but you are not ok with flashing a tune ( which isn't a physical modification and can be reversed in minutes with zero physical evidence). The logic doesn't make sense. If you want Test Pipes, you will need a tune. That or live with the annoying SES light all the time.
__________________
2008 E90, JB/FR
APEX / ECS / AFE / BORLA / Brembo / ESS / H&R / IND
Insta: @M_POWER_S65
Appreciate 0
      02-04-2017, 04:18 PM   #15
deansbimmer
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
deansbimmer's Avatar
United_States
2708
Rep
2,696
Posts


Drives: 2011 E93 M3
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: DFW, Texas

iTrader: (17)

Garage List
1988 BMW M3  [0.00]
2013 BMW M3  [0.00]
2011 X5M  [0.00]
2011 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
It is 100% false that you need a tune in order to make a CEL go away. Unless any of you have tried every method please don't re-post what you've read from other forums. There is a way to do disable the cel.
There are posters here (and myself) who are professionals and have been doing this for a long time and fix these problems every day, who have forgotten more scenarios than most owners see in their lifetime of tinkering on their own cars. So please forego the insult of calling wisdom from the modern automotive technology pool 100% false. If it were so easy to fool an emissions system 100% of the time, then the entire automotive industry would be different than what it is. Glad it works for you, but it's not the end-all solution for every application that you make it out to be.

Most states will allow at least 1 'Not Ready' monitor to still pass inspection (CEL tune). The rest of the states that require all monitors to be in "Ready" state are also the states who will perform a visual inspection. Those states will immediately return a fail status for either missing cats or a "modified emissions system" due to a sensor spacer.
Appreciate 0
      02-12-2020, 08:52 PM   #16
urabus040
Enlisted Member
United_States
0
Rep
43
Posts

Drives: 2014 X6 I35
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Brookfields MA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 BMW X6  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbozz View Post
i think macht schnell and fabspeed sell spacers with mini cats in them so you never throw a cel...

or you can get a cheaper alternative https://www.amazon.com/Minicat-Senso.../dp/B00CBKEC06
I've bought the fab speed mini cat and it doesn't work, I have a x6 with a vrsf
Down pipe, spent 225 and got CEL. In theory you'd want the o2 sensor to see some sort of
Flow for it to measure, but this that particular mini cat it's to far away from the stream to read anything, if there was some sort of port or outlet to let gases get to the sensor it prob would work but its basically a bottle with a cat substrate on a 90 elbow and gases just cant get to it. My next step it the 7 dollar fix of the defouler, to see what happens. Dont get me wrong the fabspeed really is a quality part it's welded nice and heavy but its form just doesnt fit the function. Save your money on this one.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:33 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST