Car and Driver is, "Not crazy about the new M3."

[Z K]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

How's the grip when it rains with AD08R ?
A "road tire" must be good in dry and wet road conditions and PSS is good in both !

We are talking about performance. Generally, you drive fast on a track in the dry, not on the street. In the wet, just drive slower. Who is going to drive super fast in the rain anyway? That is illegal and dangerous.

Here is Car and Driver's results. AD08 had the fastest lap time out of any of the tires they tested and the highest skidpad result. The new AD08R has even more grip than the AD08.

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...res-tested.pdf

Here is the article:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

[aus]

Originally Posted by W///

Yea seriously. Why don't you guys keep that in the F80 section. Has absolutely nothing to do with the E9x.

Because many have been BANNED in the F8x section for pointing out faults of the car.

Originally Posted by W///

The ones that will move into an F80 has already decided to at least test drive it, or have already bought one.

You guys have obviously already made up your mind about the car, so what are we learning in all these new threads? Nothing IMO.

I just wish there were more topics to discuss on the E9x, about modding, maintaining ect... forums have just been so dead lately.

The forums has been dead because the E9x is 7 years old and nothing new has come out for it. Most here are secondary owners now, so you'll see the same OLD topics come up all over again.

.

[aus]

Originally Posted by rjd598

isn't this the first "bad" review of the f8x? i mean as in overall not picking out little things they didn't like. other reviews overall liked the car but complained usually about sound

There's also the Road & Track Performance car of the year review. There's also the EVO thread here. It seems, when the car is compared to other top quality cars, it doesn't stand up well.

.

[FogCityM3]

So the same year C&D give the E90 M3 a comparo win in 2012, a few months later, they decimate the F30, mounting criticism that it isn't as good as the E90. So the ad dollars suddenly shifted during that time?!? Your thesis is highly speculative to say the least.

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

I think most car mags are just mad because BMW is not buying their ad spots like they used to anymore, instead BMW is heavily spending on internet ads.

[Harpua]

Originally Posted by NavidM3E92

The same subject twice in 1 week lol. Its unfortunate but I really believe it makes E9x guys feel better about keeping their V8 M3. Whatever makes them sleep better at night

I am actually appreciating having access to all reviews on the new M3/4 platform and I think it's relevant to this forum as many of us are likely to be considering the F8x as our next car (myself included).

Like Alex has stated previously, the Canadian dealers are not allowing test drives (despite me insisting that I am strongly considering buying the car ) so it's important to get feedback from experienced reviewers who are able to put the car though it's paces and spend extended time with it, as opposed to the typical 15min test drive at legal street speeds if I am ever able to convince the dealer to pass the keys over.

Believe me when I say I take no pleasure in reading the less than favourable reviews and it doesn't alter my opinion on my E90 M3. I've found that it is next to impossible to have any reasonable, impartial discussion about the new M3 on the F8x forums due to the immediate and sometimes hostile defensive tone of many of the posters. It's exhausting, really.

For these reasons, I'm very grateful that we can have these discussions on the E9x boards. That being said, I wouldn't mind people giving the sound of the exhaust/engine a rest. We get it. The S65 sounds better. Nobody is going to debate this.

I'm very much interested to how BMW is going to react to the numerous lukewarm/less-than-impressed reviews and if it's possible to address any of the concerns with the LCI or comp package. For now, I'm willing to wait to find out.

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

So the same year C&D give the E90 M3 a comparo win in 2012, a few months later, they decimate the F30, mounting criticism that it isn't as good as the E90. So the ad dollars suddenly shifted during that time?!? Your thesis is highly speculative to say the least.

They also awarded the M235i a 10 best car this year. I swear, when BMW wins comparisons, people claim it's because of some type of sponsorship. When they lose, it's because BMW isn't advertising enough!

Must be frustrating to read the "fan" mail C&D must surely receive on this topic.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Z K

We are talking about performance. Generally, you drive fast on a track in the dry, not on the street. In the wet, just drive slower. Who is going to drive super fast in the rain anyway? That is illegal and dangerous.

Here is Car and Driver's results. AD08 had the fastest lap time out of any of the tires they tested and the highest skidpad result. The new AD08R has even more grip than the AD08.

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...res-tested.pdf

Here is the article:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

About 70 % of the year it rains in Belgium , so I'll stick with PSS , because I need the grip in all weather conditions .
But I do believe the AD08R is a very good tire for the track , so thanks for posting the link

[FogCityM3]

An even better and more obvious point…

Originally Posted by Rupes

They also awarded the M235i a 10 best car this year. I swear, when BMW wins comparisons, people claim it's because of some type of sponsorship. When they lose, it's because BMW isn't advertising enough!

Must be frustrating to read the "fan" mail C&D must surely receive on this topic.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by aus

There's also the Road & Track Performance car of the year review. There's also the EVO thread here. It seems, when the car is compared to other top quality cars, it doesn't stand up well.

.

Just curious - why do you end all of your posts with a " . "

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

So the same year C&D give the E90 M3 a comparo win in 2012, a few months later, they decimate the F30, mounting criticism that it isn't as good as the E90. So the ad dollars suddenly shifted during that time?!? Your thesis is highly speculative to say the least.

I was just kidding around... that's why i had this (the universal emoji of sarcasm)at the end of the paragraph.

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

So the same year C&D give the E90 M3 a comparo win in 2012, a few months later, they decimate the F30, mounting criticism that it isn't as good as the E90. So the ad dollars suddenly shifted during that time?!? Your thesis is highly speculative to say the least.

That is really another good point. At the end of the day, these M cars are spruced up versions of the base 3-series. The E90 base 3-series was the most lauded 3er BMW ever made, absolutely obliterating all competition. Then BMW stuck a unique racing engine in it, and upgraded a whole bunch of other parts to make the car even better. With the F8x, the car shares more parts with the base car, including the engine, but that is not a bad thing in and of itself, at least until you consider how terrible the base car is.

So you have the following equations:

Awesome car + Tons of upgrades = E9x M3
Terrible car + Tons of upgrades = F8x M3

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by sunsweet

If you search for big names RWD turbo performance cars you will find none, because that's a troubled choice. ALL porsche turbo 911 are AWD, all merc turbo are AWD, all Audi turbo are AWD, the GT-R (turbo) is AWD.

None, today, but the supra, and 300zx were great cars. BMW just doesn't know how to make turbo cars.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

None, today, but the supra, and 300zx were great cars. BMW just doesn't know how to make turbo cars.

Those cars only had 300hp, we are far from the +450hp of todays sports cars!

Also these cars mainly serves as dragsters these days, handling is not one of their forces!

[TVMA Doc]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

i'm surprised at how negative the reviews for the M3 are these days.....i've been considering an F80 M3 as a 'family car' to join my current stable in a couple of years---but i feel a bit more skeptical about it these days. Will have to take a drive one of these days to see if all these complaints are substantiated.

I'm only somewhat surprised. The new M5 has not had kind reviews, but the 5 series seems to miss about every other launch before it gets straightened out again. Usually the 3 series learns from the mistakes and doesn't follow the failed 5. In this case, it seems that the M3 is following the M5.

[M.A.R.C.]

Every time I see one of these threads I have to wonder if anyone has actually driven the new M3/4 or is simply relying on the mag reviews. Not trying to bash anyone's specific opinion but I think a lot of this is highly subjective.

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by M.A.R.C.

Every time I see one of these threads I have to wonder if anyone has actually driven the new M3/4 or is simply relying on the mag reviews. Not trying to bash anyone's specific opinion but I think a lot of this is highly subjective.

Well to be fair, the whole point of this thread is about a magazine review, no?

[crypticc]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

That is really another good point. At the end of the day, these M cars are spruced up versions of the base 3-series. The E90 base 3-series was the most lauded 3er BMW ever made, absolutely obliterating all competition. Then BMW stuck a unique racing engine in it, and upgraded a whole bunch of other parts to make the car even better. With the F8x, the car shares more parts with the base car, including the engine, but that is not a bad thing in and of itself, at least until you consider how terrible the base car is.

So you have the following equations:

Awesome car + Tons of upgrades = E9x M3
Terrible car + Tons of upgrades = F8x M3

Why do you say terrible car. It's bigger but I'm seeing favourable reviews of the base car. I think it's just that the bar is so high nowadays that they're needing to come up with something new. It's like mobile phones a year or two ago, you can go faster but must phones for most purple were already okay. Now lighter and more efficient is what people want (without sacrificially the speed and versatility).

P.s. noise folks will eventually get used to. You didn't watch Star Wars and see Luke refuse to get in his land speeder because it sounded like a milk float did you?

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by crypticc

Why do you say terrible car. It's bigger but I'm seeing favourable reviews of the base car. I think it's just that the bar is so high nowadays that they're needing to come up with something new. It's like mobile phones a year or two ago, you can go faster but must phones for most purple were already okay. Now lighter and more efficient is what people want (without sacrificially the speed and versatility).

The 3 series just fell off Car and Drivers 10 best list for the first time in 23 years. Let that soak in for a moment. Some people reading this weren't even born the last time the 3 series wasn't a 10 best car. Unlike mobile phones, cars are about more than just their numbers. There is a physical connection that seems to be missing from the latest gen of BMW's (according to C&D).

I don't think it's a terrible car, not at all. I'd get one over the competition in a heartbeat. But, it's not the sporty, fun, benchmark car it once was.

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by M.A.R.C.

Every time I see one of these threads I have to wonder if anyone has actually driven the new M3/4 or is simply relying on the mag reviews. Not trying to bash anyone's specific opinion but I think a lot of this is highly subjective.

I'm pretty sure the editors of Car & Driver have driven their long term test car.

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by grantmax

These threads are becoming a daily occurrence. I don't need a biased review written by some professional motorhead to tell me which car I'd rather drive.

My favorites are the "will [insert F8x part] fit my E9x" threads.

I would agree, but I actually really like the new 18"s. Very sharp-looking and <20lbs per corner. I'll take it.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by aus

There's also the Road & Track Performance car of the year review. There's also the EVO thread here. It seems, when the car is compared to other top quality cars, it doesn't stand up well.

.

This. Again, outside of its DIRECT competition, the M3/4 really dont shine. They have been getting outdone by the better cars (911s, Caymans, Boxsters, Ferraris, Mclarens, Vettes, etc the stuff you know it will lose to) but the fact that things like the Golf R and Jag F type are beating it says a lot.

I don't even think it will be the segment benchmark once the c63/s and atsv come out. But BMW did put a lot of effort into the car and pulled out all the stops for the most part.

It's a great car, but it seems to have more dramatic flaws this time around.

[rngrjag]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

This. Again, outside of its DIRECT competition, the M3/4 really dont shine. They have been getting outdone by the better cars (911s, Caymans, Boxsters, Ferraris, Mclarens, Vettes, etc the stuff you know it will lose to) but the fact that things like the Golf R and Jag F type are beating it says a lot.

I don't even think it will be the segment benchmark once the c63/s and atsv come out. But BMW did put a lot of effort into the car and pulled out all the stops for the most part.

It's a great car, but it seems to have more dramatic flaws this time around.

Sorry, I disagree with the bolded language. Completely disagree. The problem is that they DIDN'T pull out all the stops. They took the easy way out with an eye to profits. No bespoke motor, turbo power, etc., etc. They are chasing sales volume not niche enthusiasts. Guess they'll leave that to the M2?