Track forum general chit chat.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Good point.

I make my own stuff because it's fun. Actually, I end up spending more in some cases when DIYing something because you miss something.

It takes awhile to get the experience and know how to make something better at a lower cost. You're already starting off at a high point when compared to OE.

I haven't delved deeply into it yet, but I think cooling in an E9X is going to be very challenging. For one, you have very limited openings for fresh air flow.

From what I’ve seen, a dry sump system is the only thing that truly prevents overheating in an S65.

I’ve seen aftermarket coolers——nope. I’ve seen additional coolers added——nope. It’s a really tough problem—especially when you add go-fast parts.

If you’ve got an angle on how to combat the heat without going to dry-sump crazy town, I’d love to see what you come up with.

[Richbot]

Oil temp is partially an aero problem imo - there is plenty of oil and the pumps move plenty of it but you’re dumping the air under the car where it doesn’t really want to go. All the cooler in the word wont matter if air isn’t passing over it any faster. It’s a similar problem to what the C5 vette has - all the cooling air has to go through a few places and as soon as you add front aero those are compromised - check out latest GRM issue for what I’m talking about

Also, the GT4 Uses a different pump with a metal impeller and different impeller design. If the coolant is cavitating in the pump housing at constant high rpm, and therefore not flowing as efficiently as it could, the oil has to take up the slack. I don’t think I have seen back to back track engine temp management data between those two pumps oem/gt4 on here, would be worth a look imo

[gmx]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

besides the downsides i already stated, i guess.

take a look at the delicate placement of ducting and constraints. if you feel like you can do a better job, please do.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21495119

This. If you can weld/make custom ducts go for it. For some it's going to be beyond their capabilities or waste of time. For others it's going to be easy to give it a shot. That adapter to hardlines looks very common across a lot of BMWs. Very lucky the M3 has that bracket separate and welded to the actual core. Reusing the bracket is your best bet as it is rubber mounted and allows the core to flex to minimise risk of cracking. The next challenge is making a full size duct. You could probably cut/extend/shut the OEM one.

It still won't be great because one problem/challenge unless you spec a custom core are your fitttings and routing of lines. You don't want 180s imo.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Oil temp is an aero problem imo - there is plenty of oil and the pumps move plenty of it but you’re dumping the air under the car where it doesn’t really want to go. All the cooler in the word wont matter if air isn’t passing over it any faster. It’s a similar problem to what the C5 vette has - all the cooling air has to go through a few places and as soon as you add front aero those are compromised - check out latest GRM issue for what I’m talking about

I don’t know....One friend had an E90 M3 with stock power and no aero of any kind. He had Dinan stage 2 suspension and brake pads and Hankook RS3/Yoko AD08. Overheated like crazy. He added a second oil cooler. Didn’t prevent overheat, but it did recover from overheating faster.

He moved on to a 996 GT3.....never overheated again.....—-sigh—-

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Also, the GT4 Uses a different pump with a metal impeller and different impeller design. If the coolant is cavitating in the pump housing at constant high rpm, and therefore not flowing as efficiently as it couldo

looking at pictures of the two, they appear to be the same. however, its possible that just eyeballing it in internet pictures, one might not be able to see a 1* or 2* difference in blade angle that could optimize flow with higher spinning.
secondary to that, it appears to be a pretty rough cast. i wonder if the metal impeller could be polished or honed for a smooth surface.

[Ximian]

Looks like a great deal on slicks - https://trackdaytire.com/specials/?u...mpaign=Dec2019


Deal of the day:
43836S100, 265/645R18 S100 HTS, Hoosier Slick 10.9, 25.5, 10.1, 18 X 10 $99.00 each

They should fit my Apex EC7 18x10 with stock ZCP suspension, right?

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Looks like a great deal on slicks - https://trackdaytire.com/specials/?u...mpaign=Dec2019


Deal of the day:
43836S100, 265/645R18 S100 HTS, Hoosier Slick 10.9, 25.5, 10.1, 18 X 10 $99.00 each

They should fit my Apex EC7 18x10 with stock ZCP suspension, right?

I was literally just staring at that and googling the hell out of those tires. 3 sets of slicks instead of 1 set of NT01... Wonder how old they are though.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by dogbone

From what I’ve seen, a dry sump system is the only thing that truly prevents overheating in an S65.

I’ve seen aftermarket coolers——nope. I’ve seen additional coolers added——nope. It’s a really tough problem—especially when you add go-fast parts.

If you’ve got an angle on how to combat the heat without going to dry-sump crazy town, I’d love to see what you come up with.

M24 has some sort of radiator tilt kit that allows for some serious ducting out of the top of the hood. some of the ducting requires an electric power steering pump i believe...

since you already got rid of your a/c, that might be a cost efficient upgrade (with some quick sheet metal ducting).

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

I was literally just staring at that and googling the hell out of those tires. 3 sets of slicks instead of 1 set of NT01... Wonder how old they are though.

They should be unused but old stock. I'm assuming manufactured somewhere around 2016. If you get in touch the company, let me know if they tell you how old the tires are.

Based on a post here (https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-ra...1166536/page2/) it looks like it might not be a good idea if they're old and aged out.

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

looking at pictures of the two, they appear to be the same. however, its possible that just eyeballing it in internet pictures, one might not be able to see a 1* or 2* difference in blade angle that could optimize flow with higher spinning.
secondary to that, it appears to be a pretty rough cast. i wonder if the metal impeller could be polished or honed for a smooth surface.

You don’t want a smooth pump impeller - you want some roughness to break up the boundary layer - even half million dollar industrial pumps often have as-cast impeller surfaces

Based on some other pictures I’ve seen the GT4 pump has fewer vanes but I’ve not held them both in my hand. It’s also metal instead of polymer - necessarily going to be different geometry just from the material differences. This sounds like something dogbone should do back to back testing on for us lol

[CorruptCommie]

Originally Posted by Ximian

They should be unused but old stock. I'm assuming manufactured somewhere around 2016. If you get in touch the company, let me know if they tell you how old the tires are.

Based on a post here (https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-ra...1166536/page2/) it looks like it might not be a good idea if they're old and aged out.

If these are the same Continental IMSA overstock tires, my wets were 2017 and now have a bit of dry cracking on the outside. Used them a couple times this year. I'd be cautious ordering a set unless they can give you a date on them.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by CorruptCommie

If these are the same Continental IMSA overstock tires, my wets were 2017 and now have a bit of dry cracking on the outside. Used them a couple times this year. I'd be cautious ordering a set unless they can give you a date on them.

I was looking at the Hoosier slicks specifically which should have more grip than the A7/R7 but are much less durable. I heard even the Continental slicks are a harder compound and they can't be newer than 2018 as that's when Continental left IMSA.

[Richbot]

I wouldn't worry about Hoontinental wets with light cracking - a little bit of cracking, especially where tread block meets carcass, seems common at least on the H2O and their progeny - I've seen it on very fresh tires in the middle of the season, children of summer that never saw freezing and thought white walkers were just a spooky fairytale

[CorruptCommie]

Originally Posted by Richbot

I wouldn't worry about Hoontinental wets with light cracking - a little bit of cracking, especially where tread block meets carcass, seems common at least on the H2O and their progeny - I've seen it on very fresh tires in the middle of the season, children of summer that never saw freezing and thought white walkers were just a spooky fairytale

I ran em at VIR end of season, they did 130mph down the back straight and didn't blow up

[roastbeef]

has anyone that has ditched their a/c condenser and noticed significantly better cooling? i'm not there yet, but i've been playing around with the theory in my head of implementing an a/c condenser that is significantly smaller to help with cooling.

[warp10]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

has anyone that has ditched their a/c condenser and noticed significantly better cooling? i'm not there yet, but i've been playing around with the theory in my head of implementing an a/c condenser that is significantly smaller to help with cooling.

Anything that is in front of another cooler is going to effects its ability to cool.

I ditched mine and blower from under the dash. Saved a lot of weight.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

M24 has some sort of radiator tilt kit that allows for some serious ducting out of the top of the hood. some of the ducting requires an electric power steering pump i believe...

since you already got rid of your a/c, that might be a cost efficient upgrade (with some quick sheet metal ducting).

From Motorsport24's site:



We have been planning to do something like this as well - just not sure if there is going to be enough room yet even after lowering & tilting the radiator. Still might not be enough angle to really promote the air to travel up & out efficiently. This is with a do88 radiator & the engine in the stock location. MS24 might have a smaller radiator and/or the engine pushed back a bit - both could make a huge difference imo. This has all been through eyeballing though so we are putting the front back together to see what we really have.

[Richbot]

If you duct it right it doesn’t matter what the angle it’ll flow up and out

[SYT_Shadow]

On the stroker build I have the GT4 pump

[Pic18]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

Is this the e92 M3 widebody GT with S62 car? I need that engine!

If I remember correctly, Grand Am GT cars of that era were 100% tube frame cars so about the only thing on that car that was BMW besides the outer skin was the S62.

[rhyary]

Some tires and camber conclusions from my 2019 and projections to 2020.

If you followed my posts here, you know I went through lots of configurations, much to the chagrin of forum members. Here are some learning lessons and implications to the 2020 season. Advice and comments are welcomed.

The season was mostly done using -3.0 front camber and -2.0 on the rear. I don't have useful info on the rear. It was on constant 295/30/19 with all tires experiments

The front saw four sizes
235/35/19 slick RR
265/35/19 slick R7
265/30/19 100/200 type tires R888R, ADOR8, PS4S
275/30/19 road/rain tires (say PS4S or similar)

Some of the above are more 2017-18. Of interest in 2019 are two sizes - 235 and 265 /35

The 235/35 RR are SIGNIFICANT cheaper and the delta between the RR and R7/A7 is $600.

In 2019 I have 14 x 20 min sessions in two days.
7 per day

Neither the 235 nor the 265 were able to finish 14 sessions on pace below 1:40. Above 1:40 there is not real issue.

The 235 corded the INSIDE after 10 x 20min session. swapping sides coded both front

The 265 coded the OUTSIDE after 10 x 20 sessions.

both tires on -3.0 could not finish two days on pace.

So 2020 I plan to start on -2.5 front camber and RR 235. Only one reason. cheaper.

I get best time on that, and depending on finance, I will switch to 265 and -3.5 and test.

My goal is to finish two day 14 x 20m on either set at pace sub 1:40

For the record, my best time with 235 RR is 1:37.2 and best time on 265 is 1:35.7.

On the R7 265, I did multiple 1:36 and best accomplishment is 1:36.1 with traction control off.

[b4hand]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Some tires and camber conclusions from my 2019 and projections to 2020.

So an r7 would only last a 2 day track weekend? Damn