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      09-23-2019, 03:19 PM   #1
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Game - Would you rather

I am more and more serious about an E9x for autocross and daily driver. My budget is MAX 25k. I have 2 kids so 4 door is a priority.

So the game, would you rather:

4 door, dsg, zcp and 100k mile car for $25kish with Rod bearing repair (say at 70k miles)

OR

4 door DSG, 150k miles for $15k, leaving 10k to do rod bearings, new shocks, other updates

100k cars are still fairly high miles, so the difference between a high mile and a HIGHER mile car doesn't seem to bad. Then it leaves money to do the necessary repairs from day 1 and you have a known product (fresh rod bearings, fresh adjustable shocks, fresh suspension bushings, etc) These updates should be $5k? leaving $5k for track tires/wheels, future repairs.


Thanks for the input.
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      09-25-2019, 09:16 AM   #2
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Nobody likes bench racing. =\

I am trying to get a sense of how miles add up to equal big maintenance/failure rates.
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      09-25-2019, 10:04 AM   #3
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Depends on the condition of the cars bruhslice

Iíd be totally unafraid of a 150k mile car with good records in good running order. But I think you can do a lot better than 150k miles for $15k on a 2008 M3 if ZCP isnít a priority. Iíve seen a bunch of them with under 100k for that price. The high miles cars are basically free right now when you consider the cost of a known good running S65 on the used market right now
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      09-26-2019, 10:16 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
Depends on the condition of the cars bruhslice

Iíd be totally unafraid of a 150k mile car with good records in good running order. But I think you can do a lot better than 150k miles for $15k on a 2008 M3 if ZCP isnít a priority. Iíve seen a bunch of them with under 100k for that price. The high miles cars are basically free right now when you consider the cost of a known good running S65 on the used market right now
Yeah I guess thats what I am trying to figure out, save the money up front to then put into the maintenance so you know they have been done at that point.

It seems 3-4k in good single adjustable shocks has to be at least as good as the ZCP shocks? This is for Auto-x.
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      09-26-2019, 12:30 PM   #5
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Yes my JRZ RS One single adjustable are a lot better than stock ZCP suspension. Track use
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      09-26-2019, 04:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
Yes my JRZ RS One single adjustable are a lot better than stock ZCP suspension. Track use
~ cost? Need to stay stock springs for F-Street autocross. I assume easily adjusted into a street-able setting.
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      09-26-2019, 09:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexracer View Post
~ cost? Need to stay stock springs for F-Street autocross. I assume easily adjusted into a street-able setting.
You can ask APEX for a price and how to best configure it with stock springs. I bought a bundle kit with 550/800 springs and a bunch of other goodies.

But for a rough idea, VAC sells just the dampers for $2,500
https://store.vacmotorsports.com/jrz...e92-p3155.aspx
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      09-27-2019, 09:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
You can ask APEX for a price and how to best configure it with stock springs. I bought a bundle kit with 550/800 springs and a bunch of other goodies.

But for a rough idea, VAC sells just the dampers for $2,500
https://store.vacmotorsports.com/jrz...e92-p3155.aspx
Thanks, thats great, and for nice dampers, that seems very reasonable.
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      09-28-2019, 06:46 AM   #9
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The biggest issue you'll find is locating a slicktop E90. The stats are in the sticky pdf on E90 production, but they were ~25-28% of the total. With total E90 M3 import numbers just over 5000 cars, you're hunting among about 1300 slicktops imported over all model years.

I have values I think were from Sickfinga for 2011 E90 ZCP:

325 into USA, 1 into Canada; of those 6MT were 137 and 1.

If you consider that about 28% of E90 LCI were slicktops, then *if* that ratio applies to the ZCP subset, there are roughly 90 ZCP slicktops to hunt for...most are in strong hands by now.

Low mileage slicktops (say 40-50k or less miles), especially 2011 models, are very well bid and appreciating over the past couple of years.
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      09-30-2019, 11:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
The biggest issue you'll find is locating a slicktop E90. The stats are in the sticky pdf on E90 production, but they were ~25-28% of the total. With total E90 M3 import numbers just over 5000 cars, you're hunting among about 1300 slicktops imported over all model years.

I have values I think were from Sickfinga for 2011 E90 ZCP:

325 into USA, 1 into Canada; of those 6MT were 137 and 1.

If you consider that about 28% of E90 LCI were slicktops, then *if* that ratio applies to the ZCP subset, there are roughly 90 ZCP slicktops to hunt for...most are in strong hands by now.

Low mileage slicktops (say 40-50k or less miles), especially 2011 models, are very well bid and appreciating over the past couple of years.
Since I am new to the BMW area, I assume slicktop = no sunroof, not necessarily the Carbon FIber roof. Right? The CF roof was only an option on the 2-door cars?

To justify this car to the wife, I am 90% sure it will have to be a 4 door, as I have a 4/6 yo kids to get in.

And all of what you said makes me lean toward an older car with maybe more miles, that I can then do RB and JRZ shocks on and know I have bearings done and great shocks for Auto-x.
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      09-30-2019, 11:09 AM   #11
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slicktop = no sunroof

there was no CF roof in the E90, unfortunately. Still, even the steel roof is significantly lighter than the sunroof.

Note that you can remove the sunroof in a sunroof car so you fix the weight penalty
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      09-30-2019, 11:38 AM   #12
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Miles don't matter. Maintenance and care is what matters. I've seen cars with almost 200k miles that look and are mechanically better than cars with 75k miles.

That said, someone on here did exactly what you are looking to do (paging Visceral). He bought an E90 for track/autox because he has a family and wanted something he could bring the kids to events in.

At that mileage, the stock dampers are probably close to being shot so you'd need to replace them anyway for AutoX. I have MCS but that's expensive, but lots of other after market options that will work with EDC that won't break the bank.
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      09-30-2019, 12:01 PM   #13
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Isn't this for F-street class autox? (thought I saw a post of yours in the massive F-stock/street catch-all thread)

If so, if you go with an E90 other than a 2011 with ZCP, then you're stuck with 1/2" narrower wheels all around (8.5, 9.5). Not a total deal killer, but just having to give up a 1/2" is worth (?) on a Nationals caliber long course.

Richbot may still have the TRMotorsport 8.5/9.5 wheels I sold him a few years ago. I autocrossed my E90 in F-street back in 2013 before the +/- 1" diameter rule, and used 275/35 square on those wheels with excellent results. At the time in 2012 during my 2011 E90 6MT slicktop hunt, I specifically ignored ZCP cars since the top street class legal tires weren't available in 19" sizes, so the ZCP package was a serious handicap.

If you're going to STU, then I'd agree with looking at an older car since the street class restrictions are gone.
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      10-02-2019, 03:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Note that you can remove the sunroof in a sunroof car so you fix the weight penalty
I assume this wouldn't be F-Street legal?


And Chris, thats the sort of thing I need to know. Seems like a higher miles well taken care of car, then do RB and get good shocks (MCS/JRZ), would still be cost ahead compared to a perfectly optioned car that you still likely have to do RB and new EDC shocks. BTW Thanks for the ride in your car!

CSBM5 - the wheel thing is a consideration, but I would likely want to run square tire setup (for rotating). Mark Scroggs DS Camaro ran 275/35R18s on 8.5s, so a bit pinched, but still made it work well enough for a national title.
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      10-02-2019, 04:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexracer View Post
I assume this wouldn't be F-Street legal?


And Chris, thats the sort of thing I need to know. Seems like a higher miles well taken care of car, then do RB and get good shocks (MCS/JRZ), would still be cost ahead compared to a perfectly optioned car that you still likely have to do RB and new EDC shocks. BTW Thanks for the ride in your car!

CSBM5 - the wheel thing is a consideration, but I would likely want to run square tire setup (for rotating). Mark Scroggs DS Camaro ran 275/35R18s on 8.5s, so a bit pinched, but still made it work well enough for a national title.
I have no idea. Not sure what F street is hehehe
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      10-02-2019, 04:37 PM   #16
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Sunroof was always a line item so if you follow a factory roof replacement procedure with all oem parts I see no reason it wouldn’t be legal
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      10-02-2019, 04:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexracer View Post
BTW Thanks for the ride in your car!
You're welcome? LOL. Which car was it and I assume at PIR?
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      10-02-2019, 05:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexracer View Post
I assume this wouldn't be F-Street legal?


And Chris, thats the sort of thing I need to know. Seems like a higher miles well taken care of car, then do RB and get good shocks (MCS/JRZ), would still be cost ahead compared to a perfectly optioned car that you still likely have to do RB and new EDC shocks. BTW Thanks for the ride in your car!

CSBM5 - the wheel thing is a consideration, but I would likely want to run square tire setup (for rotating). Mark Scroggs DS Camaro ran 275/35R18s on 8.5s, so a bit pinched, but still made it work well enough for a national title.
I run MCS singles on my E92, with Apex wheels in 18x10 ET25 squared. Also have 12/15mm spacers. It's my street car so the camber isn't bonkers, I think 2.5 up front and 1.5 in the rear. And I got a bit of rubbing with that until I added the spacers.
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      10-02-2019, 05:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexracer View Post
Yeah I guess thats what I am trying to figure out, save the money up front to then put into the maintenance so you know they have been done at that point.

It seems 3-4k in good single adjustable shocks has to be at least as good as the ZCP shocks? This is for Auto-x.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
Yes my JRZ RS One single adjustable are a lot better than stock ZCP suspension. Track use
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexracer View Post
~ cost? Need to stay stock springs for F-Street autocross. I assume easily adjusted into a street-able setting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
You can ask APEX for a price and how to best configure it with stock springs. I bought a bundle kit with 550/800 springs and a bunch of other goodies.
Thanks Ken. OP, I would be happy to assist on the JRZ front. Feel free to reach out anytime and best of luke with the new purchase.

F-street guys can chime in, but I believe the rules still state that you must run the stock wheel widths with offsets within +/- 7mm of the stock specs. Downsizing from 19" to 18" is permissible.

If you start with a ZCP car (19x9" ET31 / 19x10" ET25), you have the advantage of running wheel widths 1/2" wider than non-ZCP guys --> 18x9" ET30 / 18x10" ET25. IIRC, most F-street guys run 275/35-18 square on those wheels.

If you start out with a non-ZCP car (18/19x8.5" ET29 / 18/19x9.5" ET23), you would need to stick to 18x8.5" ET35 / 18x9.5" ET22.

- Ryan

Last edited by ApexRaceParts; 10-02-2019 at 05:18 PM..
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      10-02-2019, 05:43 PM   #20
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18x8.5 et29 is stock front non ZCP fitment. Rears are et23 not 22

Don’t you sell wheels for a living come on
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      10-02-2019, 07:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts View Post
If you start out with a non-ZCP car (18/19x8.5" ET29 / 18/19x9.5" ET23), you would need to stick to 18x8.5" ET35 / 18x9.5" ET22.

- Ryan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
18x8.5 et29 is stock front non ZCP fitment. Rears are et23 not 22

Donít you sell wheels for a living come on
You might want to re-read my post

- Ryan
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      10-02-2019, 07:49 PM   #22
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