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      05-27-2020, 08:08 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I think a new engine is a positive for sure!
Personal preference I guess. I’m just too anal and don’t want something that has been torn apart and put back together by someone who may simply want to get it done as quick as possible. You’ll never know if all the bolts were torques properly, if there are broken hoses hiding around, broken clips, etc etc. that’s just me though
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      05-27-2020, 12:29 PM   #24
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Ok so here is what you should do.

1: Buy an S65 or even an S85.
2: Swap it into the M4.
3: Go bankrupt.
4: Who gives a shit if you're broke you get to listen to redline heaven all day.
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      05-27-2020, 12:50 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PYE46M3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I think a new engine is a positive for sure!
Personal preference I guess. I’m just too anal and don’t want something that has been torn apart and put back together by someone who may simply want to get it done as quick as possible. You’ll never know if all the bolts were torques properly, if there are broken hoses hiding around, broken clips, etc etc. that’s just me though
Same. I don't view a replaced engine as a positive at all. To be honest I'd avoid a car with a replaced engine even if it was a brand new engine.
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      05-27-2020, 01:54 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenE92M3 View Post
Ok so here is what you should do.

1: Buy an S65 or even an S85.
2: Swap it into the M4.
3: Go bankrupt.
4: Who gives a shit if you're broke you get to listen to redline heaven all day.
404: Steering feel not found.
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      05-27-2020, 03:37 PM   #27
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Maybe with a budget that runs you into bankruptcy, a rack that gives steering feel could also be swapped in.
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      05-27-2020, 04:10 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Maybe with a budget that runs you into bankruptcy, a rack that gives steering feel could also be swapped in.
has this been done?
or is it a wild dream?
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      05-27-2020, 04:11 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thump604 View Post
For over 2 years I searched for a E92 ZCP and came very close many times. Once I even owned one for 2 months before it went back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick3753 View Post
What's the story behind the one you had for 2 months and then "it went back"?
yeah seriously
what's the story behind the e92 zcp that went back?

the most likely situation that comes to mind is ... problem with financing and the dealer had to take the car back?
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      05-27-2020, 04:33 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Bimmer View Post
The E9X ///M3's are great cars, but honestly not sure why you want one, because all you'll do is mod it.....

1. Oil change (even DIY) is pricy (not a mod, but keep this in mind)
2. The stock muffler is too quiet (will require a sports exhaust)
3. The stock brakes have zero cosmetics (will require painted calipers)
4. The stock wheels don't sit flush (will require spacers)
5. The stock NA Engine doesn't have enough ponies (will require a tune/supercharger)
6. The stock ride height is too high (will require new adjustable shocks/springs)
7. The stock speakers suck (will require BSW speaker upgrade and subs)
8. The stock 18" wheels suck (will require 19")
9. The stock didn't come with C.F. (will require lots of C.F. inside and outside)

.....so get the E9X ///M3, but plan to have another $10K in the bank for upgrades...on a, at best, a 7 year old car....just saying!

EDIT: This is above and beyond the normal wear and tear items you'll need to do during your first 1500 mile break in on the new engine....as the last thing you want to hear are those bearing clicking at month 25....
Linear power delivery, classic styling, and quality brakes > over styled body, bling wheels, painted calipers, and turbo lag. What else would you get if naturally aspirated high rev v8 as a must have? R8?
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      05-27-2020, 06:36 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Bimmer View Post
The E9X ///M3's are great cars, but honestly not sure why you want one, because all you'll do is mod it.....

1. Oil change (even DIY) is pricy (not a mod, but keep this in mind)
2. The stock muffler is too quiet (will require a sports exhaust)
3. The stock brakes have zero cosmetics (will require painted calipers)
4. The stock wheels don't sit flush (will require spacers)
5. The stock NA Engine doesn't have enough ponies (will require a tune/supercharger)
6. The stock ride height is too high (will require new adjustable shocks/springs)
7. The stock speakers suck (will require BSW speaker upgrade and subs)
8. The stock 18" wheels suck (will require 19")
9. The stock didn't come with C.F. (will require lots of C.F. inside and outside)

.....so get the E9X ///M3, but plan to have another $10K in the bank for upgrades...on a, at best, a 7 year old car....just saying!

EDIT: This is above and beyond the normal wear and tear items you'll need to do during your first 1500 mile break in on the new engine....as the last thing you want to hear are those bearing clicking at month 25....
6-8 can be solved with a comp pack with an upgraded stereo, 5 is also iffy and very much an opinion. I think the car is fast enough because it doesn't have to be fast. It has character and sounds good.

The F80 better be fast and blingy because that's all its got.

Otherwise I'll give it to you, it could use help in some areas and is not cheap at all if you're making a complete package. However, I'll take an E90 with all of those issues addressed over a fully sorted F80 because at the end of the day you can't fix what's broken on the F80.

Can't find character and feel in a parts bin.
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      05-27-2020, 11:53 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox View Post
yeah seriously
what's the story behind the e92 zcp that went back?

the most likely situation that comes to mind is ... problem with financing and the dealer had to take the car back?
Do you make these kind of leaps in logic often?
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      05-29-2020, 02:38 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
404: Steering feel not found.
Funny, as I was driving my E90 M3 this whole past week, today I jumped in my F80 and I came to the conclusion the E9x almost has "too much" feedback coming through the steering wheel. It can sometimes be a bit much as a daily driver. The F80 has plenty of steering feel and I think it's tuned "just right" with the amount of feedback vs. road conditions.
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      05-29-2020, 02:54 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMpower View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
404: Steering feel not found.
Funny, as I was driving my E90 M3 this whole past week, today I jumped in my F80 and I came to the conclusion the E9x almost has "too much" feedback coming through the steering wheel. It can sometimes be a bit much as a daily driver. The F80 has plenty of steering feel and I think it's tuned "just right" with the amount of feedback vs. road conditions.
I get used to whatever I'm driving. When I go to F8X from e9X I notice how it feels like a video game and numb. When I go to e9X from f8X I notice how busy the steering wheel seems.
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      05-29-2020, 02:59 AM   #35
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I had a 2017 M3 comp pack for 3 yrs. yes it fast, but doesn't provide near the driving experience the e92 does. The steering is precise, but has pretty much zero feel. The e92 feels like a much better built car. The F80 creaked and cracked over every bump. And well...V8.
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      05-29-2020, 03:52 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DL335D View Post
I had a 2017 M3 comp pack for 3 yrs. yes it fast, but doesn't provide near the driving experience the e92 does. The steering is precise, but has pretty much zero feel. The e92 feels like a much better built car. The F80 creaked and cracked over every bump. And well...V8.
I really don't think the two should be compared, there is a forum member who recently picked up his E92 M3, comparing it to his E46 M3, he said. "Truthfully, aside from the "M3" name, I don't think there is much of a comparison between the two. The E46 M3 is a weapon while the E92 M3 is a refined cruiser"

I find that observation very true, having owned 3 E9x M3s, currently own an E90 M3 and my F80, the cars are just too different every time they evolve to be directly compared. The E9x is like a refined GT350, the F8x is like refined GT-R. To say one is better because of this and that is just silly.

I sold both my E92 M3s within a year of ownership because the honeymoon phase died quickly for me, I liked the cars but I just never fell in love with them and a HUGE part of it was the DCT. No matter how good the DCT is, strapped to the S65 I think it just zapped away all the enjoyment and soul of that motor. It's like strapping an automatic to a DC2 Type R or Honda S2000. Yes, Ferraris and Porsches use dual-clutch automatics but those cars are actually fast, if you're not winning any straight line races, might as well stick with a manual for enjoyment.

After picking up my E90 M3 with a proper 6MT, I finally understand what all the hype is about. Revving it to 8k plus, then ripping through the gears manually, hearing that motor scream, then grabbing another gear. The experience is next level, super visceral and rewarding, it gives me goosebumps every time which I NEVER experienced driving my DCT equipped E92 M3s.

While my F80 doesn't give me the same aural experience, it's downright hilariously fun in a different way. Having my body pinned to the seat while violently blasting to triple-digit speeds with relentless power and torque, razor-sharp steering in a perfectly balanced chassis, super rewarding to drive as well. I've owned my F80 for over 2 years now and it's actually the longest I've ever kept a car, I don't picture myself ever selling it. I've had a lot of people ask me which of my M3s do I love most, my E92s or my F80 and it was a simple answer before. F80 all day every day. Now that I own an E9x M3 with a proper transmission, the decision just got a lot tougher...

Last edited by DanMpower; 05-29-2020 at 04:03 AM..
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      05-29-2020, 08:23 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thump604 View Post
For over 2 years I searched for a E92 ZCP and came very close many times. Once I even owned one for 2 months before it went back.

Most recently I was looking at one at a local dealership. It wasn't my ideal spec, but close. It had a sunroof and was black on black. While the dealership had it a rod bearing went out.

I decided screw it, I'm fed up. Found a nice '17 M4 Comp, got a PPI and today agreed to the purchase.

After that call, the dealership with the E92 calls. They got a new engine from BMW and it has been installed. 2 year unlimited mile warranty, about the same price we previously negotiated(26K).

Many Oh man, sigh....
I would take the claim of a new engine from BMW very seriously . There are no "new" S65s to be specific . Their new probably means remanufactured OR even more accurate is a rebuilt block with new internal rotating parts.

Which means ... who built it ?? A BMW engine is not the same as the engine from BMW. And remanufactured motors from BMW are not cheap. A dealer will not want to lose money on the sale of a used car. So I highly doubt they will want to go thru the expense of putting a factory motor in ... no way they can turn a profit on that.

That's not to say that aftermarket engine builders are bad. There are good ones. But a factory reman motor for a used car sale ... hmmmm ... the only scenario for this would be a car under the original or extended factory warranty bought at either the first in service date OR before the original factory warranty expires . All E9X M3s now will be outside the original warranty.
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      05-29-2020, 08:55 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMpower View Post
...
I sold both my E92 M3s within a year of ownership because the honeymoon phase died quickly for me, I liked the cars but I just never fell in love with them and a HUGE part of it was the DCT. No matter how good the DCT is, strapped to the S65 I think it just zapped away all the enjoyment and soul of that motor ...
Should have toggled right into manual mode.
The S65 was quite literally made for the DCT, and I feel it allows you to get the most out of the engine. I’m a manual guy (wouldn’t take an E46 or GT3 any other way!) but I have no desire to match an oddly geared 6MT to this heavy, torqueless car. Sure it’s fun as well and I wouldn’t kick one out of the garage, but hardly a match made in heaven. Even less desire for an F8xM, regardless of spec. To each their own.

Last edited by wyatth; 05-29-2020 at 10:26 PM..
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      06-01-2020, 04:29 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thump604 View Post
Do you make these kind of leaps in logic often?
why yes
when you only leave out a few crumbs

you said the car "went back" so there are only so many possibilities
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      06-01-2020, 07:21 PM   #40
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i hear this said often, I can only imagine you’ve never actually driven a manual paired with the S65.

I have a DCT RS3, and while it’s fantastic, it doesn’t compare from a driving experience perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyatth View Post
Should have toggled right into manual mode.
The S65 was quite literally made for the DCT, and I feel it allows you to get the most out of the engine. I’m a manual guy (wouldn’t take an E46 or GT3 any other way!) but I have no desire to match an oddly geared 6MT to this heavy, torqueless car. Sure it’s fun as well and I wouldn’t kick one out of the garage, but hardly a match made in heaven. Even less desire for an F8xM, regardless of spec. To each their own.
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      06-02-2020, 08:03 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMpower View Post
I really don't think the two should be compared, there is a forum member who recently picked up his E92 M3, comparing it to his E46 M3, he said. "Truthfully, aside from the "M3" name, I don't think there is much of a comparison between the two. The E46 M3 is a weapon while the E92 M3 is a refined cruiser"

I find that observation very true, having owned 3 E9x M3s, currently own an E90 M3 and my F80, the cars are just too different every time they evolve to be directly compared. The E9x is like a refined GT350, the F8x is like refined GT-R. To say one is better because of this and that is just silly.

I sold both my E92 M3s within a year of ownership because the honeymoon phase died quickly for me, I liked the cars but I just never fell in love with them and a HUGE part of it was the DCT. No matter how good the DCT is, strapped to the S65 I think it just zapped away all the enjoyment and soul of that motor. It's like strapping an automatic to a DC2 Type R or Honda S2000. Yes, Ferraris and Porsches use dual-clutch automatics but those cars are actually fast, if you're not winning any straight line races, might as well stick with a manual for enjoyment.

After picking up my E90 M3 with a proper 6MT, I finally understand what all the hype is about. Revving it to 8k plus, then ripping through the gears manually, hearing that motor scream, then grabbing another gear. The experience is next level, super visceral and rewarding, it gives me goosebumps every time which I NEVER experienced driving my DCT equipped E92 M3s.

While my F80 doesn't give me the same aural experience, it's downright hilariously fun in a different way. Having my body pinned to the seat while violently blasting to triple-digit speeds with relentless power and torque, razor-sharp steering in a perfectly balanced chassis, super rewarding to drive as well. I've owned my F80 for over 2 years now and it's actually the longest I've ever kept a car, I don't picture myself ever selling it. I've had a lot of people ask me which of my M3s do I love most, my E92s or my F80 and it was a simple answer before. F80 all day every day. Now that I own an E9x M3 with a proper transmission, the decision just got a lot tougher...
Quote:
Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox View Post
why yes
when you only leave out a few crumbs

you said the car "went back" so there are only so many possibilities
Can confirm your are wrong. Interesting logic.
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      06-09-2020, 01:38 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
very different cars, are you sure you even wanted an e92?
Agreed. F82 is tempting, but E92 is a completely different experience.
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      06-09-2020, 08:02 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Bimmer View Post
The E9X ///M3's are great cars, but honestly not sure why you want one, because all you'll do is mod it.....

1. Oil change (even DIY) is pricy (not a mod, but keep this in mind)
2. The stock muffler is too quiet (will require a sports exhaust)
3. The stock brakes have zero cosmetics (will require painted calipers)
4. The stock wheels don't sit flush (will require spacers)
5. The stock NA Engine doesn't have enough ponies (will require a tune/supercharger)
6. The stock ride height is too high (will require new adjustable shocks/springs)
7. The stock speakers suck (will require BSW speaker upgrade and subs)
8. The stock 18" wheels suck (will require 19")
9. The stock didn't come with C.F. (will require lots of C.F. inside and outside)

.....so get the E9X ///M3, but plan to have another $10K in the bank for upgrades...on a, at best, a 7 year old car....just saying!

EDIT: This is above and beyond the normal wear and tear items you'll need to do during your first 1500 mile break in on the new engine....as the last thing you want to hear are those bearing clicking at month 25....
Almost all of these are subjective. While I agree with your stance on many of these, that doesn't mean that they all have to be done.

#1 can be addressed by using FCPEuro's oil change kits and sending the used oil back to them (crazy as that sounds, they allow it)

Plus, even if you did all of those changes, it would not amount to 10k if you shopped around.
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      06-09-2020, 09:45 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by statik View Post
i hear this said often, I can only imagine you've never actually driven a manual paired with the S65.

I have a DCT RS3, and while it's fantastic, it doesn't compare from a driving experience perspective.
I think the same question can be directed back to you. Have you driven the DCT for this platform? DCT in other cars isn't always an apples to apples comparison. I didn't much care for the DCT in the S3.

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm also a hardcore save the manuals guy. I have the stupid shirt, too. I've never owned a car without a clutch pedal before my e92 M3. I searched a long while for the right spec M. Drove manuals and DCT. Ultimately I landed with a DCT and I'm super happy. Sure my left foot gets bored but the DCT is just an amazing transmission.
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