Built Diff...

[//steve\\]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

ThTs what I did... I get to bang my ankles on this bad boy on occasion!!

Nice!

I feel like I almost never see used diffs for sale. Just made me think...if I already know the R&P is getting replaced can I buy a diff from a DCT car or do I need to stick with something from a 6MT?

[evilspiritM3]

Can't speak to the DCT ratios, but I'm really happy with the diffsonline diff that I recently put in the car. Completely changes the nature of the car and I spent a lot more time in higher RPM range. Took a session or two to get used to new shift points and the traction. Really happy with the decel traction and braking stability.

Specs:
4.10
3 clutch
35/60 Ramps
Polished Ring, Pinion, and Bearing.

Stock Carrier vs. New Carrier:

[slicer]

All this talk makes me want to make this happen ASAP.

[//steve\\]

Originally Posted by slicer

All this talk makes me want to make this happen ASAP.

Given all the other stuff you have done it seems like the glaring obvious cherry on top that's missing. FULL SEND

[nicksm3]

Originally Posted by slicer

All this talk makes me want to make this happen ASAP.

It has to be done, I've been debating far too long

[rhyary]

I don't think the 3.62 is a technical issue for track going fellows. This is a financial decision.

Also, personally, I would not do it for a daily driver. Driving 75mph at 3500 with aftermarket exhaust gets old within a week.

But for the stated goal of OP, it is "Should I spend the money" not whether "10 clutch racing 3.62 diif" would be a good idea on the track.

It is! :-)

[nicksm3]

Originally Posted by rhyary

I don't think the 3.62 is a technical issue for track going fellows. This is a financial decision.

Also, personally, I would not do it for a daily driver. Driving 75mph at 3500 with aftermarket exhaust gets old within a week.

But for the stated goal of OP, it is "Should I spend the money" not whether "10 clutch racing 3.62 diif" would be a good idea on the track.

It is! :-)

You are correct!
It is a financial decision to say the least. $8,200 from Bimmerworld for the 3.62 race unit.
$5,800 from Driftflo . So, were do I stand here? lol 😂

Curious how both units compare.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by nicksm3

You are correct!
It is a financial decision to say the least. $8,200 from Bimmerworld for the 3.62 race unit.
$5,800 from Driftflo . So, were do I stand here? lol ��

Curious how both units compare.

One thing to keep in mind regarding the price is, from diffsonline you get a whole new housing and essentially what is sent to you is ready to swap into the car.

From driftflo you get the LSD itself + parts, and you'll need to install it into your existing housing. So you need to add on the cost of installation to get a more accurate comparison. Unless you're getting the LSD sent to someone and installation into a housing is included in that above price?

I think you'd be extremely happy with both. Dan is a big name in North America for diffs for BMW's. Drexler is also very well-known and used by top teams, including manufacturers, but more so in Europe.

There are a few people on the forums using the drexler setup from driftflo, including myself, and everyone has been very happy with it so far. I don't think you'll find anyone on here running the race carrier diffsonline one, while I'm sure it would also be very good, there is less feedback from other users for that option.

What ramp angles/lock is the diffsonline unit you're looking at?

[nicksm3]

Originally Posted by tsk94

One thing to keep in mind regarding the price is, from diffsonline you get a whole new housing and essentially what is sent to you is ready to swap into the car.

From driftflo you get the LSD itself + parts, and you'll need to install it into your existing housing. So you need to add on the cost of installation to get a more accurate comparison. Unless you're getting the LSD sent to someone and installation into a housing is included in that above price?

I think you'd be extremely happy with both. Dan is a big name in North America for diffs for BMW's. Drexler is also very well-known and used by top teams, including manufacturers, but more so in Europe.

There are a few people on the forums using the drexler setup from driftflo, including myself, and everyone has been very happy with it so far. I don't think you'll find anyone on here running the race carrier diffsonline one, while I'm sure it would also be very good, there is less feedback from other users for that option.

What ramp angles/lock is the diffsonline unit you're looking at?

Ahhhhhh that wasn't stated in the email from Drift. I assumed it came complete with the housing and all, plug up and play. What I like with drift though, he stated the parts are used but are ready to hit the track. Diffsonline requires a 1000 mile break in period

As for your question on ramp angles and such from Diffsonljne. I'm still researching. This is still new to me as it's a learning curve. Trying to decide which to go with :

[evilspiritM3]

@dogbone has a good section on diffs in his build thread.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by nicksm3

Ahhhhhh that wasn't stated in the email from Drift. I assumed it came complete with the housing and all, plug up and play. What I like with drift though, he stated the parts are used but are ready to hit the track. Diffsonline requires a 1000 mile break in period

As for your question on ramp angles and such from Diffsonljne. I'm still researching. This is still new to me as it's a learning curve. Trying to decide which to go with :

Yeah, so that's the LSD itself and all the parts needed for assembly. You will need to reuse your existing housing or buy another.

Ramp angles don't mean much as the same ramp will vary in the amount it locks depending on number of clutches. I'd recommend something at least 1.5 way (locking on accel and some lock on coast), something in the range of 50%-70% lock on accel.

My drexler is a 2-way on my car, 60% lock on accel and coast. This is mainly personal preference and driving style orientated. I like a stable car on entry, and a 2-way, or diff that locks a good amount under coast will stabilize the back end and allow more stable entry and better trail braking performance. I believe the standard 1.5 way from driftflo is 70% accel/50% coast. Again, it's all preference. I'm not sure what OG Shark has in his, but I'd assume the 'standard' ramp angles? We're both really happy with our diffs.

Unfortunately my track day earlier this month, and tomorrow, got cancelled, so no onboard videos yet.

Even if we were to assume the diffsonline setup is better (which, it very well might NOT be), the difference is going to very small between a 8vs10 clutch setup. From talking to Dan and driftflo when I was going through the process myself, the actual internals between the 2 are quite similar. Overall I liked a few of the features from the drexler a bit more (special drilled molybdenum-coated clutch material and lightweight pressure rings) and the slightly lower price swung me in that direction.

[nicksm3]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Yeah, so that's the LSD itself and all the parts needed for assembly. You will need to reuse your existing housing or buy another.

Ramp angles don't mean much as the same ramp will vary in the amount it locks depending on number of clutches. I'd recommend something at least 1.5 way (locking on accel and some lock on coast), something in the range of 50%-70% lock on accel.

My drexler is a 2-way on my car, 60% lock on accel and coast. This is mainly personal preference and driving style orientated. I like a stable car on entry, and a 2-way, or diff that locks a good amount under coast will stabilize the back end and allow more stable entry and better trail braking performance. I believe the standard 1.5 way from driftflo is 70% accel/50% coast. Again, it's all preference. I'm not sure what OG Shark has in his, but I'd assume the 'standard' ramp angles? We're both really happy with our diffs.

Unfortunately my track day earlier this month, and tomorrow, got cancelled, so no onboard videos yet.

Even if we were to assume the diffsonline setup is better (which, it very well might NOT be), the difference is going to very small between a 8vs10 clutch setup. From talking to Dan and driftflo when I was going through the process myself, the actual internals between the 2 are quite similar. Overall I liked a few of the features from the drexler a bit more (special drilled molybdenum-coated clutch material and lightweight pressure rings) and the slightly lower price swung me in that direction.

This is a wealth of knowledge that I was looking for!
I'm still trying to decide, make up my mind which route to take. I do like Diffsonline because they are here in the states and support is a phone call away.
Drift is cheaper and that's so damn appealing to me.
Considering much of the weight of the e92 is in the nose...having a stable rear on entry is what I really want under hard braking. Initially I thought 40% would suffice but I'm seeing that 50-70% may be the ticket.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by //steve\\

Given all the other stuff you have done it seems like the glaring obvious cherry on top that's missing. FULL SEND

Definitely

[dogbone]

I’m surprised OS Giken hasn’t gotten any more mention. Am I really the only one running it? The unit has 10 sets of clutch plates. And I got it custom setup. The Superlock unit from Turner was around $2000. The custom setup was another $100 (back in 2015). I’ve shown with data that the Superlock is effective with my [ridiculously long 3-part] write up that you can find here: https://www.m3post.com/forums/showth...1158445&page=8

And it’s reliability had been proven given that it’s been in my car for almost 5 years without issue.

OS Giken has setup thousands of race cars with their diffs. They have a huge database off of which to work with. The only downside with them is they remain a bit vague about exactly how they setup your diff. They consider it proprietary info.

I don’t know.....$8000 for a diff seems a bit much.....

Anyway, just find it interesting that no one else has chimed in about OS Giken.

[pbonsalb]

I think driftflo did in the really long diff thread.

[Redd]

Originally Posted by dogbone

I’m surprised OS Giken hasn’t gotten any more mention. Am I really the only one running it? The unit has 10 sets of clutch plates. And I got it custom setup. The Superlock unit from Turner was around $2000. The custom setup was another $100 (back in 2015). I’ve shown with data that the Superlock is effective with my [ridiculously long 3-part] write up that you can find here: https://www.m3post.com/forums/showth...1158445&page=8

And it’s reliability had been proven given that it’s been in my car for almost 5 years without issue.

OS Giken has setup thousands of race cars with their diffs. They have a huge database off of which to work with. The only downside with them is they remain a bit vague about exactly how they setup your diff. They consider it proprietary info.

I don’t know.....$8000 for a diff seems a bit much.....

Anyway, just find it interesting that no one else has chimed in about OS Giken.

+1 Giken. I love mine but I don't track enough to make any claims on it.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by nicksm3

alright guys, the latest email from the pro's at Bimmerworld........

Hey Nick,

I would highly recommend not doing the 3.62. I think The 3.45 is the farthest I would push it. I had a customer purchase a 3.62 for his DCT car and the car would not even move after it was installed due to it being in a sort of mechanical check mate since the transmission had no clue what was going on with the final drive.

Also, with Watkin Glen's massive back straight, I would want as much gear as possible. Let's stick with the 3.45 for sure.

I’ve been running a BW Diffsonline 3.62 diff on two different e92 M3 DCT since 2009 without a single issue. You’ll be fine with a 3.62 and now multiple tuners can alter software to account for the 3.62 diff FD change so no worries. One of the best mods I’ve done.

[bigjae1976]

The ZF unit is a lot cheaper than the OS Giken and you can also customize ramp angles and preload. Not sure you can do that on the OS Giken as easily.

The M-Lock unit has no lock up on decel. A 35/60 ZF does...this will induce some understeer. A clutch type diff is a little different. If you lift, you're probably gonna spin. But...with a ZF LSD in my 330, it felt like there was a direct connection between the rear tires and my right foot. Loved it!

[nicksm3]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

The ZF unit is a lot cheaper than the OS Giken and you can also customize ramp angles and preload. Not sure you can do that on the OS Giken as easily.

The M-Lock unit has no lock up on decel. A 35/60 ZF does...this will induce some understeer. A clutch type diff is a little different. If you lift, you're probably gonna spin. But...with a ZF LSD in my 330, it felt like there was a direct connection between the rear tires and my right foot. Loved it!

Nice man! Hey I'm absorbing all this, thank you

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

The ZF unit is a lot cheaper than the OS Giken and you can also customize ramp angles and preload. Not sure you can do that on the OS Giken as easily.

The OS Giken Superlock can be custom setup by OS Giken to however you want it. (It's a $150 service on top of the price of the diff)

Check out this form you fill out if you want a custom setup. They encourage you to upload dyno charts and pictures of your aero so they can really dial things in.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1F...Oi4ig/viewform

https://osgikenusa.com/products/lsd-...on-domestic-49

Again, the only downside with OSGiken is that they are cagey and vague about the exact preload setup because they consider it proprietary info. But you can see what ramp angles they use and you can see how many clutch plates are active. The preload is the only thing you don't know about. If you are super technical and you need to know, then this unit may not be for you. But in terms of being able to customize the unit, yes, they can make that unit dance for your specific car, tires, aero, power, dyno charts, etc. And as far as I know, 10 sets of clutch plates (20 total plates) for the E9x M3 is more than any other unit I've seen. More clutch plates, if setup properly, lead to smoother locking and unlocking of the unit. Also, OS Giken makes their own diff fluid which I use. It's a 80w-250 weight.......serious stuff.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by dogbone

The OS Giken Superlock can be custom setup by OS Giken to however you want it. (It's a $150 service on top of the price of the diff)

Check out this form you fill out if you want a custom setup. They encourage you to upload dyno charts and pictures of your aero so they can really dial things in.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1F...Oi4ig/viewform

https://osgikenusa.com/products/lsd-...on-domestic-49

Again, the only downside with OSGiken is that they are cagey and vague about the exact preload setup because they consider it proprietary info. But you can see what ramp angles they use and you can see how many clutch plates are active. The preload is the only thing you don't know about. If you are super technical and you need to know, then this unit may not be for you. But in terms of being able to customize the unit, yes, they can make that unit dance for your specific car, tires, aero, power, dyno charts, etc. And as far as I know, 10 sets of clutch plates (20 total plates) for the E9x M3 is more than any other unit I've seen. More clutch plates, if setup properly, lead to smoother locking and unlocking of the unit. Also, OS Giken makes their own diff fluid which I use. It's a 80w-250 weight.......serious stuff.

I have no doubt the OS Giken can be a good setup, and like many of the other diffs that are being discussed here, can be adjusted to your liking. The OSG seem quite popular with the E46 guys, less so with E36 and E92s - not exactly sure why but that's what I've noticed.

Dan from diffsonline sells the OS Giken if you want one, but when I spoke to him when I was looking at diffs he wasn't impressed with them from a reliability stand point. He's had constant issues with them and while he sells them he told me he won't rebuild or warranty an OS Giken that he sells. Now, with that being said, there are many people that have used them without problem - such as dogbone here on this forum.

While more clutches does lead to smoother engagement, it does go a bit beyond that. Ramp angles and clutch material play just as important of a role as simply the # of numbers. Steeper ramp angles engage smoother. But steeper ramp angles result in less lock. The solution to this is running more clutches - which increases the lock. Thus a steep ramp angle + more clutches = good. But again, 20 clutches isn't necessarily better than 10 and so on. The clutch material and design of the clutches can lead to similarly smooth engagement but at a lighter weight.

If anyone's read through Driftflo's thread, you understand how technical the world of diffs is. I think any of these options would be a HUGE upgrade over the stock unit, and the difference between a race carrier from diffsonline, a drexler from driftflo or a properly setup OS Giken would probably be very slight.

[rhyary]

The packaging is also important.
I am not familiar with all the options, but what is nice from diffsonline is that you get the whole housing from them all complete. You send yours back.

This is built by a shop that does it for a living. So there is a certain comfort that the assembly of the 3.62, LSD and the housing was done right. All the installer has to do, whether DIY or the local shop, is install the whole unit. The downtime for your car is minimal, but you need to do 1000 break-in and change the diff oil at the end of the 1000 miles

If all the LSD providers can do the same, then pick any of them.

I am just saying you are not only picking the LSD, you are picking a 3.62 solution.