Bilstein EDC-compatible struts for E9X M3

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by spr

What are your ride heights before and after???? I am having a huge issue as the rear lowered as advertised but the front raised .5"?????

Let it settle a bit My ride height is very similar to a ZCP car as I had posted earlier when parked side to side.

I dont have measurements since its been a while but after driving for a bit car did settle some. Remember that before and after needs to be apples to apples. With time the stock OEM shocks seem to sag a bit (as explained to me by Turner). Car is very comfortable on the street (to date) and puts out decent laptimes (to date).

Cheers,

Lutfy

[spr]

Lufty what are your fender to ground heights off a level surface??? Please provide. I'm wondering if I didn't get the wrong front springs given the .5" raise with lowering springs... Thanks. Alsonsrttlig isn't an issue. They've been on for a few months now and I drive the car in the canyons harder than most on the track.

Originally Posted by lutfy

I read the memo from Bilstein. Interesting to know ZCP setting is ECU/sensor based and not the actual shock/struts. In that situation, normal setting to be better on the track!

SPR dont worry Give it a bit of time. Bilstein is spot on on the stock shocks sagging a bit (I had posted about this earlier too). And the Eibach springs actually got my car to the ZCP level (hair close to) vs advertised Eibach drop setting on my car. Give it time to settle in. The above was measured and I had a slight drop (a little bit after driving for a tank full of gas).

Since you have a motorsport background, you will be pleased to know these shocks have greater rebound than stock and give much better control (especially rear end at high speed sweepers).

Long and short, these are OEM quality (tad better with compression/rebound) to take any aftermarket oem diameter springs (non coil over). Take it out in crappy city streets in soft setting and you will be pleased how compliant the car is.

Enjoy your new shocks and report back.

Cheers,

Lutfy

[2K11SGCoupe]

What ever happened the ride report promised by EAS? Did they ever manage to get their Bilstein's installed?

Very strange that they would make such a big deal to advertise a product and then not follow through.

[lutfy]

Folks,

I have some good news to report. Yesterday I had gone to flip my tires (265 and 295 AD08R) on the wheels so essentially moving left to right and vice versa for even wear (running camber and on track).

That said, I tried putting the rear 18*10 with 295/30/18 AD08R on the front to see if it clears the strut. Guess what? It did

Now I can run 295/30/18 in the front for a full on square. Previously folks who tried 295/30 on 18*10 inch with stock strut reported lack of clearance and needing to use spacers.

I didnt drop the car down to see if the fender would clear. Not worried there because folks have run spacers and still not damaged the fender. Main concern was strut rubbing and it didnt.

The spring perches are also much smaller compared to the stock ones which protrude out a bit. That and possibly narrower body/neck is the reason for clearance? Not sure. But I did put my pinky in there and turned the wheel to confirm, there was space. VERY little but was there.

Cheers,

Lutfy

[spr]

Update:

Despite what others may say, the Bilstein replacement EDC shocks and eibach springs DO NOT WORK TOGETHER WELL. They dropped the rear of the car fine but the front raised 1". It settled some over time but destroyed the balance and handling of the car. Further as the eibach springs are progressive, the car handled absolutely like garbage with gross weight transfer until settling passed progression. The car also rode poorly felling underdamped for the springs.

ON a positive note after speaking with Bilstein and their counterparts in Germany they acknowledged the problem and advised of no solution. However, they agreed to return the struts/shocks and gave me a solid price on the coil over EDC kit. I haven't had much chance to drive it yet as I am having my diff rebuilt again and replacing everything including an overhall of the OS Giken LSD. However the initial impression before I pulled the diff was obviously that the springs and struts are perfectly matched together. I will update after the diff is reinstalled next week if I don't leave for the holidays first.

In summary absolutely avoid this setup. Your car will handle worse.

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by spr

Update:

Despite what others may say, the Bilstein replacement EDC shocks and eibach springs DO NOT WORK TOGETHER WELL. They dropped the rear of the car fine but the front raised 1". It settled some over time but destroyed the balance and handling of the car. Further as the eibach springs are progressive, the car handled absolutely like garbage with gross weight transfer until settling passed progression. The car also rode poorly felling underdamped for the springs.

ON a positive note after speaking with Bilstein and their counterparts in Germany they acknowledged the problem and advised of no solution. However, they agreed to return the struts/shocks and gave me a solid price on the coil over EDC kit. I haven't had much chance to drive it yet as I am having my diff rebuilt again and replacing everything including an overhall of the OS Giken LSD. However the initial impression before I pulled the diff was obviously that the springs and struts are perfectly matched together. I will update after the diff is reinstalled next week if I don't leave for the holidays first.

In summary absolutely avoid this setup. Your car will handle worse.

Sorry this didn't work for you. Here's a pic of mine. This is on lower than stock profiled tires. 265-35 and 295-30 on 18s. Perfect stance.

Identical to ZCP height (when I compared it with my stock 220 wheels and 245/265 19s) Per data on track car was faster on all tracks I attended last year. Works like a charm have had it for 15k miles so far.



This is stock with higher profiled 275/35 square setup.

[M3mo]

Great info here guys, I'm in need to new shocks to due to my rear RHS to be totally gone, I have the ZCP and just wondering which way to go.

It doesn't seems to be so many offer here in UK, so I will see what I can do.

Originally Posted by lutfy

No issues so far. Runs like a champ!! Dont pair with ZCP springs, it WILL be identical to current stock as these shocks are stout (as in fresh) so wont sag like your old(ish) stock shocks.

I went with Eibach as I wanted slightly stiffer ride and ZCP ride height. Could go with Swift as I have heard good things about it, they are a tad stiffer but doubt anyone short of FIA Super lic can tell the difference.

As more time has gone by, track to track, my laptimes are almost identical with stock and now Bilstein/Eibach/HR front bar. (both with Camber plates installed and same tire compound). I thought I would be noticeably faster but I am not (tells you how damn good stock suspension is).

Pros:

1) Increased rebound (especially at the back which eliminates the float at high speed when running stickier tires, possibly the reason why I am hair faster in each fast speed corners as observed by PerformanceBox data logger. This is my assumption, be unfair to reach a conclusion just based on this evidence)

2) Much better, supple ride on the streets. This is due to increased suspension travel.

3) Sport mode is more usable which wasnt in the past with non ZCP shocks (static and not dynamic making the car bumpy except in comfort and normal. I ran normal on track with stock shocks due to this).

Disadvantage:

1) They are a bit heavier than stock aluminum bodied shocks.

IF I had the ZCP suspension, I wouldnt have done this mod. But since I didnt, I think performance is on par with that with the exception of better street ride. This could be remedied by cutting the stock bumpstop on the ZCP car.

Would I do it again? (read above) if non ZCP car, then YES!.

Hope this clarifies.

Lutfy

Lufty, what would you chose if you would have the ZCP?

Originally Posted by spr

Also, here is the info that I received after inquiring with Bilstein's technical people before purchase:


Hi Sean,

Sorry the delay,

The B6 DampTronic will accommodate all OE springs (YES, ZCP) and lower springs. The dampers themselves have nothing to do with any of the programing. Whether using the ZCP program or the standard program, the B6 DampTronic dampers will work and keep the functions of those programs. The active ZCP program is controlled by additional speed and angle sensors along with the different programing which are all OE parts. The BMW OE dampers themselves do not change between ZCP and non-ZCP, it’s all in the additional sensors and program.

The perch is NOT higher. It is located in the same location as OE. As mentioned many times before, BMW dampers are known to sag over time causing a lower ride height. Please refer to BMWs own OE ride height spec, any new damper will bring the vehicle to that spec. Monotube high pressure tubes can add at the most 1-2mm of higher ride height. Again, these dampers are compatible with all of the different iterations. Ride height can be perceived as different when aftermarket wheels and tires are installed which most M cars have.

From bottom of rim to fender.

18" Wheels
Front: 610 mm
Rear: 594 mm

19" Wheels
Front: 623 mm
Rear: 607 mm

Competition package: -10 mm from above specs.





Best Regards,

Mike Ritchie
Technical Training & Sales Expert

ThyssenKrupp Bilstein of America, Inc.
14102 Stowe Drive
Poway, CA 92064
Office: +1 858 386-5909
Fax: +1 858 386-5905
Email: michael.ritchie@bilsteinUS.com
http://www.bilsteinUS.com
http://www.facebook.com/bilsteinUS

As I'm looking at the rear shocks in RealOEM and the ZCP has different part number, than normal EDC, how Bilstein can say it is same?

So, choices I got now is:

1) to buy from dealer (either the faulty or all four)
2) Bilstein B6 kit - what springs than? ZCP will make the car higher probably Eibach (is it any part number or just e92 M3 lowering kit)?
3) buy used one for now to keep the car drive able till I find more information?
(can't find the ZCP only "normal EDC by the part number)

thanks for any advice

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by M3mo

Great info here guys, I'm in need to new shocks to due to my rear RHS to be totally gone, I have the ZCP and just wondering which way to go.

It doesn't seems to be so many offer here in UK, so I will see what I can do.



Lufty, what would you chose if you would have the ZCP?



As I'm looking at the rear shocks in RealOEM and the ZCP has different part number, than normal EDC, how Bilstein can say it is same?

So, choices I got now is:

1) to buy from dealer (either the faulty or all four)
2) Bilstein B6 kit - what springs than? ZCP will make the car higher probably Eibach (is it any part number or just e92 M3 lowering kit)?
3) buy used one for now to keep the car drive able till I find more information?
(can't find the ZCP only "normal EDC by the part number)

thanks for any advice

I believe ZCP and non ZCP shocks are the same. ZCP tuning is different for the EDC maps hence the sport+ mode is dynamic.

I would run them with the ZCP springs and be OK. I had normal springs hence went with Eibach. Either ways, you'd be a happy camper.

Cheers,

Lutfy

[M3mo]

Originally Posted by lutfy

I believe ZCP and non ZCP shocks are the same. ZCP tuning is different for the EDC maps hence the sport+ mode is dynamic.

I would run them with the ZCP springs and be OK. I had normal springs hence went with Eibach. Either ways, you'd be a happy camper.

Cheers,

Lutfy

Thanks for the answer Lufty,

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=33_1417

When looking at this page, normal EDC dampers are using pn: 33522284311
but competition package has pn:33522284313

or here:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=31_0803

On the front pn for EDC: 31312284095/96
but again the ZCP: 31312283917

am I missing something here?

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by M3mo

Thanks for the answer Lufty,

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=33_1417

When looking at this page, normal EDC dampers are using pn: 33522284311
but competition package has pn:33522284313

or here:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=31_0803

On the front pn for EDC: 31312284095/96
but again the ZCP: 31312283917

am I missing something here?

Stock or OEM struts/shocks from the factory (Sachs I believe) are different. I am sure they are valved differently to accommodate the lower/slightly stiffer ZCP springs.

But aftermarket shocks as in Bilstein, it will work on both application. Possibly for scale economies and also that they are stiffer (I found the rebound to be just right with these springs). They are called HD and not Sport but the valving are the same. Sport has trimmed or shortened shaft.

Once installed in a ZCP optioned car, it will work perfectly fine. On our non ZCP car, in order to get the dynamic mode in super sport or level 3 setting, we needed to program or flash the EDC.

Car rides better than stock because there is more suspension travel. My front struts didnt come with bumpstops either, called Turner and was told they have internal bumpstops hence the longer travel.

Hope this helps. Not affiliated with Bilstein, just a happy camper.

Lutfy

[M3mo]

Originally Posted by lutfy

Stock or OEM struts/shocks from the factory (Sachs I believe) are different. I am sure they are valved differently to accommodate the lower/slightly stiffer ZCP springs.

Now I'm totally confused, up to now I was sure I didn't understand something, but when you say they are different from factory, but the letter from Bilstein (just few posts above) says it is same.

Originally Posted by lutfy

But aftermarket shocks as in Bilstein, it will work on both application. Possibly for scale economies and also that they are stiffer (I found the rebound to be just right with these springs). They are called HD and not Sport but the valving are the same. Sport has trimmed or shortened shaft.

Once installed in a ZCP optioned car, it will work perfectly fine. On our non ZCP car, in order to get the dynamic mode in super sport or level 3 setting, we needed to program or flash the EDC.

isn't that taken from the letter saying the shocks are same?

Originally Posted by lutfy

Car rides better than stock because there is more suspension travel. My front struts didnt come with bumpstops either, called Turner and was told they have internal bumpstops hence the longer travel.

Hope this helps. Not affiliated with Bilstein, just a happy camper.

Lutfy

Ok, using Bilstein with ZCP spring will result the car to be higher right?

If I want to have the same ride high I will need to use the Bilstein with lowering spring as you have?

Are they any lowering spring or they are specific?

There doesn't seems to be much differences in the price between the OEM and Bilstein, so just wondering which one would be better

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by M3mo

Now I'm totally confused, up to now I was sure I didn't understand something, but when you say they are different from factory, but the letter from Bilstein (just few posts above) says it is same.



isn't that taken from the letter saying the shocks are same?



Ok, using Bilstein with ZCP spring will result the car to be higher right?

If I want to have the same ride high I will need to use the Bilstein with lowering spring as you have?

Are they any lowering spring or they are specific?

There doesn't seems to be much differences in the price between the OEM and Bilstein, so just wondering which one would be better

Zcp and non zcp stock suspension are different for bilstein it's one application for all. Went with eibach for a slight lower stance you already have zcp springs so will be okay.

Bilstein has lifetime warranty stock ones don't.

[armyav8tor]

Originally Posted by lutfy

Zcp and non zcp stock suspension are different for bilstein it's one application for all. Went with eibach for a slight lower stance you already have zcp springs so will be okay.

Bilstein has lifetime warranty stock ones don't.

Can we link up sometime so I can take a ride in your car? I'm interested in getting the exact setup. The stock shocks are getting a little tired.

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by armyav8tor

Can we link up sometime so I can take a ride in your car? I'm interested in getting the exact setup. The stock shocks are getting a little tired.

Sure! PM me (goes for others too) I am by the Capitol and can take you out around the block. Car mainly sits in garage so as long its not raining/snowing/salt on the roads, I am fine.

Cheers,

Lutfy

[L4ces]

Originally Posted by lutfy

Stock or OEM struts/shocks from the factory (Sachs I believe) are different. I am sure they are valved differently to accommodate the lower/slightly stiffer ZCP springs.

But aftermarket shocks as in Bilstein, it will work on both application. Possibly for scale economies and also that they are stiffer (I found the rebound to be just right with these springs). They are called HD and not Sport but the valving are the same. Sport has trimmed or shortened shaft.

Once installed in a ZCP optioned car, it will work perfectly fine. On our non ZCP car, in order to get the dynamic mode in super sport or level 3 setting, we needed to program or flash the EDC.

Car rides better than stock because there is more suspension travel. My front struts didnt come with bumpstops either, called Turner and was told they have internal bumpstops hence the longer travel.

Hope this helps. Not affiliated with Bilstein, just a happy camper.

Lutfy

Looking for a little clarification.
Are you saying I will loose dynamic mode if I use these dampers?

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by L4ces

Looking for a little clarification.
Are you saying I will loose dynamic mode if I use these dampers?

No. If your car was NON ZCP, then you never had the dynamic mode in Sport mode to begin with (only ZCP versions did). I had mine to be coded to include this ZCP software upgrade. It has nothing to do with the shock/strut.

Lutfy

[L4ces]

Originally Posted by lutfy

No. If your car was NON ZCP, then you never had the dynamic mode in Sport mode to begin with (only ZCP versions did). I had mine to be coded to include this ZCP software upgrade. It has nothing to do with the shock/strut.

Lutfy

Thank you for clarifying.

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by ashtaron14

Swift Spec-R Springs installed on the B6 DampTronics. The ride height pre-settle is about one finger. I feel that there's about a 10-15% increase in stiffness over the ZCP springs.

Any update on the Swift Spring setup? Am thinking of going a little stiffer. Will also reach out to Bilstein to get max range on spring rates.

Cheers,

Lutfy

[ashtaron14]

Originally Posted by lutfy

Any update on the Swift Spring setup? Am thinking of going a little stiffer. Will also reach out to Bilstein to get max range on spring rates.

Cheers,

Lutfy

She sits like this now. So far it rides well, no funny noises or unwanted movement.

[spr]

This was the setup I almost did given my problem with bilstein edc struts raising the car. I went bilstein full edc coilovers and couldn't be happier. Those Swift springs would still be a 4x4 setup compared to the middle height I have mine at now with matched Springs and better valued struts and shocks over the stock replacement units.

I dig through rums and brakes though.

I also added a new ecs front bar. Biggest you can get and cheap. It gave way more traction back to the rear when running -2 all around.

[ashtaron14]

I'm happy with the 1 Asian finger wheel gap. I want to keep the front felt pieces under the front bumper intact to avoid cooling issues.

[spr]

Hahah. Side felts do nothing in relation to cooling and they'll rip off with stock dampening anyways. I have a full carbon front where you have to cut them flat. All show no go.


QUOTE=ashtaron14;20399305]I'm happy with the 1 Asian finger wheel gap. I want to keep the front felt pieces under the front bumper intact to avoid cooling issues.[/QUOTE]