Track forum general chit chat.

Dreamer99 · 07-07-2020, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamer99

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk94

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeveragedTiger

Third day at Mission Raceway was yesterday. Was running in the advanced group which had at highest count, 4 cars on track. Lots of time to get some hot/aggressive laps in, but then do some cool down laps as well and try and sight lines a little better.

I ended up having my first real spin despite the space. Turn 4 is a fast sweeper to the left that requires an aggressive trailbrake (my dumb foot says 40-50%) to get the rear-end to swing around and carry momentum. Unfortunately my tires blew up to 41 PSI so the rear end decided to come all the way around on me. Nice and slow spin though so I just rolled onto some grass. Always fun to get away with something like that.

Was running Hawk DTC-70s on OEM brakes and loving it - initial bite is excellent, and they haul down well even through the middle of the braking phase. Unfortunately they seem to have a habit of turning into dust at a rapid pace - can't even get 3 full days out of a front set. Accidentally went down to the backing plate. Ooooops!

On a serious note - the front left brake pad wore out faster than the front right. Mission Raceway is a counter-clockwise circuit. Is this normal? Or indicative of poor braking technique? Something mechanical?

It is normal to have slight differences in wear between sides with brake pads after heavy track use. Nothing to be worried about.

I'm fairly familiar with Mission from people I know that track out there. I'm a bit confused by your comment regarding trail braking into turn 4 - especially with as much pedal pressure as you suspect your using (50%). Turns 1-3 are good examples of turns that would be beneficial to trail brake into. Faster sweepers are usually the type of corner where you wouldn't be trail braking into - especially with that much brake pressure at the apex. You'd likely be faster and have the car more stable if you were to get almost all your braking done in a straight line before turn 4, turn in while rolling in speed and get back to full throttle around the apex. Turn 5 at my home track is quite similar to turn 4 at Mission and the latter proved to be faster, more consistent and more confidence inspiring - and the data showed it was faster. So something to just keep in mind and maybe try next time out!

Yes, I brake in a straight line before turn 4 then throttle maintenance to balance the car going across the inside curb.

Do you have a data logger?

No I don't. I just use Harry's lap timer.

turbo_joe · 07-08-2020, 09:23 AM

Some video from Summit Point on Sunday. Not my cleanest or best runs, blaming it on the crazy hot weather.

dparm · 07-08-2020, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamer99

No I don't. I just use Harry's lap timer.

If you're going to keep making track visits, and want to get serious about going fast, buy yourself an AIM Solo 2 DL.

SYT_Shadow · 07-08-2020, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dparm

If you're going to keep making track visits, and want to get serious about going fast, buy yourself an AIM Solo 2 DL.

Agreed. Super clear data, you can cross reference it easily, works every time

ThunderMoose · 07-08-2020, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Quote:

Originally Posted by dparm

If you're going to keep making track visits, and want to get serious about going fast, buy yourself an AIM Solo 2 DL.

Agreed. Super clear data, you can cross reference it easily, works every time

You'll also find how much you're actually coasting when you think you're using maintenance throttle.

dparm · 07-08-2020, 01:55 PM

Not to mention you can swap data files with people and see exactly why they are faster!

The Corvette/Camaro guys do it with the PDR files, which is the same basic idea. "Wow, he's at WOT a full 50 feet earlier than me"

SonnyJack · 07-08-2020, 07:57 PM

Final session for me on Sunday. Had been a very good weekend. Clutch failed after the end of the front straight on lap 15. Hope to hear from RRT in the coming days. Methanol also failed leading to a few intermittent cool down laps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLIYHp8i4wI&t=524s

kyippee · 07-08-2020, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fsmtnbiker

kyippee the 295 RRs and 295 AR1s are identical in contact patch/tread width and overall height. The AR1 has a rim protector that protrudes a bit, which the RR does not have. But as far as fitment, they should be exactly the same. If the AR1s don't rub much on everything, the RRs won't either.

Incredibly useful for my anxiety given recent rubbing. thank you!

fsmtnbiker · 07-08-2020, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyippee

Incredibly useful for my anxiety given recent rubbing. thank you!

The Laguna struggle is real. I had none .. zero tire contact at BW when I was there, and I raised the car 10mm at Laguna in anticipation of this. These are the results...

dparm · 07-09-2020, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fsmtnbiker

The Laguna struggle is real. I had none .. zero tire contact at BW when I was there, and I raised the car 10mm at Laguna in anticipation of this. These are the results...

Jesus, looks like a solid quarter-inch of rubber at the top of the wheel well!

Richbot · 07-09-2020, 01:33 PM

Chris do you have louvered fenders now?! ttiwop

M3MPH1S · 07-09-2020, 02:40 PM

Yet another MSF/Ross Bentley free webinar "The HPDE Student Interview"

https://event.webinarjam.com/channel/studentinterview

Tricks, Tips, Best Practices and Cool ideas with Eric Meyer (Instructor Summit) and Bill Wade (BMWCCA) hosted by Ross Bentley.

Monday, July 13 @ 8:30 ET

fsmtnbiker · 07-09-2020, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richbot

Chris do you have louvered fenders now?! ttiwop

Yeah, finally got them painted. Pretty pumped with how they came out, and had to add a lot of wing to get things sorted out again so I think they do something more than just look sweet.

tsk94 · 07-09-2020, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fsmtnbiker

Yeah, finally got them painted. Pretty pumped with how they came out, and had to add a lot of wing to get things sorted out again so I think they do something more than just look sweet.

Are those from DTM FiberWerkz? How was the fit as they came?

M3 Number 86 · 07-09-2020, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeveragedTiger

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk94

It is normal to have slight differences in wear between sides with brake pads after heavy track use. Nothing to be worried about.

I'm fairly familiar with Mission from people I know that track out there. I'm a bit confused by your comment regarding trail braking into turn 4 - especially with as much pedal pressure as you suspect your using (50%). Turns 1-3 are good examples of turns that would be beneficial to trail brake into. Faster sweepers are usually the type of corner where you wouldn't be trail braking into - especially with that much brake pressure at the apex. You'd likely be faster and have the car more stable if you were to get almost all your braking done in a straight line before turn 4, turn in while rolling in speed and get back to full throttle around the apex. Turn 5 at my home track is quite similar to turn 4 at Mission and the latter proved to be faster, more consistent and more confidence inspiring (in this type of corner) - and the data showed it was faster. So something to just keep in mind and maybe try next time out!

I should probably reword. Trail brake is about 40-50% on turn in, then bleed off to light throttle through the apex like Dreamer99 said.

Fair point in trying the corner with less aggressive braking and see how it goes. I seem to have a bias to thinking if the car feels loose, and I’m as fast as possible.

50% is still hard on the brakes no?

rhyary · 07-09-2020, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeveragedTiger

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk94

It is normal to have slight differences in wear between sides with brake pads after heavy track use. Nothing to be worried about.

I'm fairly familiar with Mission from people I know that track out there. I'm a bit confused by your comment regarding trail braking into turn 4 - especially with as much pedal pressure as you suspect your using (50%). Turns 1-3 are good examples of turns that would be beneficial to trail brake into. Faster sweepers are usually the type of corner where you wouldn't be trail braking into - especially with that much brake pressure at the apex. You'd likely be faster and have the car more stable if you were to get almost all your braking done in a straight line before turn 4, turn in while rolling in speed and get back to full throttle around the apex. Turn 5 at my home track is quite similar to turn 4 at Mission and the latter proved to be faster, more consistent and more confidence inspiring (in this type of corner) - and the data showed it was faster. So something to just keep in mind and maybe try next time out!

I should probably reword. Trail brake is about 40-50% on turn in, then bleed off to light throttle through the apex like Dreamer99 said.

Fair point in trying the corner with less aggressive braking and see how it goes. I seem to have a bias to thinking if the car feels loose, and I'm as fast as possible.

50% is still hard on the brakes no?

I can go up to 1200 psi
So 50% is 600 psi

600 psi is A LOT of brakes coming into the apex.

fsmtnbiker · 07-09-2020, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk94

Are those from DTM FiberWerkz? How was the fit as they came?

Flossmann. Fit was actually really good. Not perfect but for aftermarket parts they are definitely some of the best I’ve dealt with.

tsk94 · 07-09-2020, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fsmtnbiker

Flossmann. Fit was actually really good. Not perfect but for aftermarket parts they are definitely some of the best I’ve dealt with.

Great to hear, thanks!

roastbeef · 07-09-2020, 06:06 PM

James paick has a set of flossman fenders with his Motorsport24 hood. I looked at the two of them carefully because I've fantasized about this pairing myself. They fit great for being two aftermarket parts, no worries there.

kayha12 · 07-09-2020, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonnyJack

Final session for me on Sunday. Had been a very good weekend. Clutch failed after the end of the front straight on lap 15. Hope to hear from RRT in the coming days. Methanol also failed leading to a few intermittent cool down laps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLIYHp8i4wI&t=524s

looks like that TC is kicking in quite a bite, do you have the stock MDM? If so, definitely upgrade to the euro MDM!

StripclubDJ · 07-09-2020, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeveragedTiger

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk94

It is normal to have slight differences in wear between sides with brake pads after heavy track use. Nothing to be worried about.

I'm fairly familiar with Mission from people I know that track out there. I'm a bit confused by your comment regarding trail braking into turn 4 - especially with as much pedal pressure as you suspect your using (50%). Turns 1-3 are good examples of turns that would be beneficial to trail brake into. Faster sweepers are usually the type of corner where you wouldn't be trail braking into - especially with that much brake pressure at the apex. You'd likely be faster and have the car more stable if you were to get almost all your braking done in a straight line before turn 4, turn in while rolling in speed and get back to full throttle around the apex. Turn 5 at my home track is quite similar to turn 4 at Mission and the latter proved to be faster, more consistent and more confidence inspiring (in this type of corner) - and the data showed it was faster. So something to just keep in mind and maybe try next time out!

I should probably reword. Trail brake is about 40-50% on turn in, then bleed off to light throttle through the apex like Dreamer99 said.

Fair point in trying the corner with less aggressive braking and see how it goes. I seem to have a bias to thinking if the car feels loose, and I'm as fast as possible.

50% is still hard on the brakes no?

Go away

You don't track anymore

dparm · 07-09-2020, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonnyJack

Final session for me on Sunday. Had been a very good weekend. Clutch failed after the end of the front straight on lap 15. Hope to hear from RRT in the coming days. Methanol also failed leading to a few intermittent cool down laps.

Great job using all of the track. Summit looks like a tight but fun layout.

Not sure if this is just a data issue with the on-screen display, but one thing I would suggest is trying to get back to full throttle as fast as possible. Can you do a histogram of the throttle pedal over your session? Or even your fastest laps?

Also, try not to shuffle-steer. Your hands crept up and down on the wheel a bit which can be really risky if you need to catch a slide or take evasive action. I know there are differing opinions on this, but for the vast majority of turns you should not need to move your hands at all.

07-08-2020, 09:23 AM	#12982
turbo_joe Lieutenant Colonel 1616 Rep 1,588 Posts Drives: 2012 M3 Coupe Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: SOMD iTrader: (2)	Some video from Summit Point on Sunday. Not my cleanest or best runs, blaming it on the crazy hot weather. __________________ 2012 E92 M3 Instagram Turbo__Joe
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07-08-2020, 01:55 PM	#12986
dparm Stop the hate, get a V8 3850 Rep 8,625 Posts Drives: C7 Corvette GS, AMG C63 S Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Frisco, TX iTrader: (1)	Not to mention you can swap data files with people and see exactly why they are faster! The Corvette/Camaro guys do it with the PDR files, which is the same basic idea. "Wow, he's at WOT a full 50 feet earlier than me" __________________ Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport, 2021 AMG C63 S sedan Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
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07-08-2020, 07:57 PM	#12987
SonnyJack Captain 326 Rep 872 Posts Drives: '09 E92 M3/'18 F83 M4 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Laurel, MD iTrader: (1)	Summit Point Main - July 5, 2020 (Miserably Hot!) Final session for me on Sunday. Had been a very good weekend. Clutch failed after the end of the front straight on lap 15. Hope to hear from RRT in the coming days. Methanol also failed leading to a few intermittent cool down laps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLIYHp8i4wI&t=524s __________________ AA Gen 2 Lvl 2 w/Meth; MagnaFlow catless x-pipe; Dinan Underdrive Pulley; VAC Coated Bearings; ARP Rod Bolts; Oil Diverter Valve; Dinan Strut Braces; Dinan Rear Toe Links; ECS Rear Trailing Arms; MCS 2-Way NR w/700F-1000R; GC Camber Plates; AKG 75D MM & 95A TM; CAE Shifter; Titan T-S5; StopTech ST60 380mm/ST40 355mm; MFactory DS; Zebulon Splitter; Zebulon 330 Rear Wing; Gutted w/Piper Motorsports Custom Cage; OMP WRC-R Seats
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07-09-2020, 01:33 PM	#12991
Richbot Major General 2760 Rep 5,483 Posts Drives: Jerez Black E90 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: STL iTrader: (5)	Chris do you have louvered fenders now?! ttiwop __________________
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07-09-2020, 02:40 PM	#12992
M3MPH1S Captain 592 Rep 769 Posts Drives: 2010 E92 M3 Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Atlanta iTrader: (8)	Yet another MSF/Ross Bentley free webinar "The HPDE Student Interview" https://event.webinarjam.com/channel/studentinterview Tricks, Tips, Best Practices and Cool ideas with Eric Meyer (Instructor Summit) and Bill Wade (BMWCCA) hosted by Ross Bentley. Monday, July 13 @ 8:30 ET
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07-09-2020, 06:06 PM	#12999
roastbeef Lieutenant General 11586 Rep 12,726 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Orange County, CA iTrader: (4)	James paick has a set of flossman fenders with his Motorsport24 hood. I looked at the two of them carefully because I've fantasized about this pairing myself. They fit great for being two aftermarket parts, no worries there. __________________ Instagram; @roastbeefmike
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