evo: New M3 is a "disappointment"

[Eau Rouge]

^ I remember that time well.

Also from C&D which I don't expect to see in print anytime soon.

C&D M3/GTR/997TT test, summation:
Every other manufacturer should give up on building their own cars and just make M3's instead.

[davesaddiction]

Eddie Alterman:

"It has evolved away from the ultimate soulful sports coupe/sedan into a robotic muscle car."

Ouch...

[rngrjag]

[QUOTE=Eau Rouge;17027000]Great, if you're into two pedal Porsches, but I'd prefer a 997.2 with three pedals.


Or, you could get the current top-of-the-911 range available with MT, the 991 GTS. Better street car than GT3, more power than "S." Delicious..

[FogCityM3]

LOL…seriously, about the only thing less objective than an autobild internet poll is an M4 Board poll!

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

Come on man, you must understand that Auto Bilds car of the year is just a popularity contest, the people that votes have'nt even drove the car!! lol

And yes Evos test is a subjective one but so as any sport that use judges to determine a winner, does that make the results irrelevant!? No! Specially in a situation where all of the judges ranked the M3 in the last and second to last position, that says a lot!!

IMO, the new M3 IS a disapointment because it falls short of expectations in many categories, high expectations created by the previous M3 models. And trust me when I say that I wanted to like it and maybe eventually order one to replace my E92 and Evo X but this model just does'nt attract me. I'm sure that the next RS5 will be a much better package for most people then the F8x, mostly because of AWD but I'm expecting a better engine also, one that will sound great and will be easilly tunable via ECU. And franckly, I'm not in love with the look either, I think they tried too hard with the front end!

[rngrjag]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

LOL…seriously, about the only thing less objective than an autobild internet poll is an M4 Board poll!

FogCityM3, you are just another of the "whiney," "butt-hurt," "can't afford the shiny new model," "justifying your own ///Mbarassment at owning the last gen model," "slower," "ill-handling," "less POWA" pieces of E92 junk.

Obviously, it is people like you that give REAL BMW enthusiasts a bad name for not liking everything about the BRAND NEW MODEL. IT HAS TURBOS, AND COMES WITH ITS OWN PIPED-IN SOUNDTRACK! HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE IT! IT HAS BEEN TURNED UP TO 11. M3+1 = M4. (Cue tiny Stonehenge)



Clearly all of the magazine pundits are idiots and trolls as well, despite that fact the legend of ///M (for the road) was in large part based on their universal praise, etc., etc...

[dtmwerksm3]

Haven't driven the new M3/4 dealer wanted me to basically buy the car before I could test drive, F that I'll wait till there sitting on lots in a few months.

However first massive gripe is the horrible ass sound of the damn thing, it reminded me of some honda civic with a 5" fart can on it.

I think I'll be waiting for the new Z06

[FashionablyFast]

I'm trying to look at the F8x M3/4 from an unbiased point of view.....it's not all bad reviews and I'm trying to be open minded about BMW in general. There seems to be plenty of good reviews as well. Seems the bad tidbits are highlighted here and the good reviews are on the F8x forum. ...I suppose that's natural but I try to have an open mind. Don't get me wrong, I love my E92 and I plan to keep it.
As mentioned several times, this is a british publication and a lot of these cars are out of the M's league....not to mention I could care less about how great it is in the rain. I didn't buy a performance car for how great it is in the rain.
In the end, yes, I agree it lacks the soul that's present in previous M3's but as mentioned a million times, the previous M's owners always say this when the new one comes out. I had an E46 when the E9x came out and everyday when I visited the E46 forums, the reaction to the E9x were generally negative....even if the new one is faster. Now I'm seeing this deja-vu all over again.
Yes, I think the exhaust note on the F8x sucks, yes I think they lost a little character/soul, yes I think my E92 is more of a raw sports car....but it doesn't mean it's all bad for the F8x and it doesn't mean all reviews are bad.

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by davesaddiction

Just a reminder of the E9x's dominance in comparisons throughout its production cycle (from latest C&D):

There's also an article in that same issue on the fake cabin noise being used in the new M3/4. I don't remember the exact quote, but it wasn't something positive.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by OhSoCal

I'm trying to look at the F8x M3/4 from an unbiased point of view.....it's not all bad reviews and I'm trying to be open minded about BMW in general. There seems to be plenty of good reviews as well. Seems the bad tidbits are highlighted here and the good reviews are on the F8x forum. ...I suppose that's natural but I try to have an open mind. Don't get me wrong, I love my E92 and I plan to keep it.
As mentioned several times, this is a british publication and a lot of these cars are out of the M's league....not to mention I could care less about how great it is in the rain. I didn't buy a performance car for how great it is in the rain.
In the end, yes, I agree it lacks the soul that's present in previous M3's but as mentioned a million times, the previous M's owners always say this when the new one comes out. I had an E46 when the E9x came out and everyday when I visited the E46 forums, the reaction to the E9x were generally negative....even if the new one is faster. Now I'm seeing this deja-vu all over again.
Yes, I think the exhaust note on the F8x sucks, yes I think they lost a little character/soul, yes I think my E92 is more of a raw sports car....but it doesn't mean it's all bad for the F8x and it doesn't mean all reviews are bad.

I could carless soul. I love the gtr lol. For me it's the simple fact the cars noise sucks or lacks. For 70k I better love the noise. That's where my problem is.

Putting everythin else aside. What's the point of having a fast car if when you hit the gas it sounds like shit . IMO a good sounding motor and performance go hand and glove.

[FashionablyFast]

Originally Posted by Ezio

I could carless soul. I love the gtr lol. For me it's the simple fact the cars noise sucks or lacks. For 70k I better love the noise. That's where my problem is.

Putting everythin else aside. What's the point of having a fast car if when you hit the gas it sounds like shit . IMO a good sounding motor and performance go hand and glove.

I agree.... I LOVE the sound of my E92 and it's the main reason I enjoy driving it. I mean I enjoy everything else about it too but I love the sound more than anything.

I'm waiting to see if any aftermarket company comes out with anything that truly helps the sound of the F8x. It's disheartening to know there are numerous ones out now and they all don't sound as good as a screaming V8.
The MPerformance and/or Akra doesn't sound bad though....I can live with those.

[aus]

The way I look at it is, there are a lot of great reviews, but when it's compared next to other great cars under the same conditions. No one expected the F8x to win, but most expected it to do better.

[W///]

Originally Posted by OhSoCal

I'm trying to look at the F8x M3/4 from an unbiased point of view.....it's not all bad reviews and I'm trying to be open minded about BMW in general. There seems to be plenty of good reviews as well. Seems the bad tidbits are highlighted here and the good reviews are on the F8x forum. ...I suppose that's natural but I try to have an open mind. Don't get me wrong, I love my E92 and I plan to keep it.
As mentioned several times, this is a british publication and a lot of these cars are out of the M's league....not to mention I could care less about how great it is in the rain. I didn't buy a performance car for how great it is in the rain.
In the end, yes, I agree it lacks the soul that's present in previous M3's but as mentioned a million times, the previous M's owners always say this when the new one comes out. I had an E46 when the E9x came out and everyday when I visited the E46 forums, the reaction to the E9x were generally negative....even if the new one is faster. Now I'm seeing this deja-vu all over again.
Yes, I think the exhaust note on the F8x sucks, yes I think they lost a little character/soul, yes I think my E92 is more of a raw sports car....but it doesn't mean it's all bad for the F8x and it doesn't mean all reviews are bad.

Exactly. Hell, a lot of the E46 guys are still bitching about the E9x haha.

The guys here that are pretending to be experts, you are all just magazine readers. Make up your own opinion and go test drive it, rather than sit here and say well I read that the sound is fake, or the EPS doesn't feel that great.

Go bloody drive it. If you still hate it, fine. At least you got to experience it yourself. For every bad review, I can post a good one, so what does that really say?

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by W///

Exactly. Hell, a lot of the E46 guys are still bitching about the E9x haha.

The guys here that are pretending to be experts, you are all just magazine readers. Make up your own opinion and go test drive it, rather than sit here and say well I read that the sound is fake, or the EPS doesn't feel that great.

Go bloody drive it. If you still hate it, fine. At least you got to experience it yourself. For every bad review, I can post a good one, so what does that really say?

exactly.

I can sit here with certainty and say that during every test drive ive ever done, multiple things have been different than my expectations. I never would have known these things without driving the car.

for the life of me I do not understand having a strong opinion about the driving characteristics of something you haven't driven.

hell, I like the new generation of all of these cars, I know that because I have driven them. I think the new 991 is better than the 997, and ive driven both a lot. that doesn't mean im right, but I feel confident with my opinion because I have driven them both and experienced them.

anyone who thinks any m3 is a POS or sucks, is missing the point.

[FashionablyFast]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

exactly.

I can sit here with certainty and say that during every test drive ive ever done, multiple things have been different than my expectations. I never would have known these things without driving the car.

for the life of me I do not understand having a strong opinion about the driving characteristics of something you haven't driven.

hell, I like the new generation of all of these cars, I know that because I have driven them. I think the new 991 is better than the 997, and ive driven both a lot. that doesn't mean im right, but I feel confident with my opinion because I have driven them both and experienced them.

anyone who thinks any m3 is a POS or sucks, is missing the point.

Precisely.....I kept my mouth shut about the F8x until I drove two of them last week - a 6 speed and a DCT. All the good reviews make just as much sense as the bad reviews. Yes there are knocks on it but what car is perfect? But let's not turn a blind eye to the positives as well. That car was much better than my E92 in several categories and of course there are categories my E92 is better in. Different, yes...inferior, NO. Times are changing and so are cars.....no matter how much we want the old stuff to stick around.

[1MOREMOD]

But we don't like change!

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by W///

Exactly. Hell, a lot of the E46 guys are still bitching about the E9x haha.

The guys here that are pretending to be experts, you are all just magazine readers. Make up your own opinion and go test drive it, rather than sit here and say well I read that the sound is fake, or the EPS doesn't feel that great.

Go bloody drive it. If you still hate it, fine. At least you got to experience it yourself. For every bad review, I can post a good one, so what does that really say?

Not everyone can go drive one, so these magazine reviews are all we can look at to get an idea on the new car. And even if my dealership did'nt told me that they don't let anyone test drive these cars, I'm sure the sales man would'nt let me drive it hard enough to see the flaws at the limits, so it totaly makes sence to read and trust the magazines , most of the time, the guys that write in them are experts who knows what they are talking about and have done more with the car then most owner will do.

As for finding a good review for every bad review, ok that says nothing, but the problem with the F8x is that unlike every previous generation of M3, there's a bad review for every good review and that says A LOT!!

[W///]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

Not everyone can go drive one, so these magazine reviews are all we can look at to get an idea on the new car. And even if my dealership did'nt told me that they don't let anyone test drive these cars, I'm sure the sales man would'nt let me drive it hard enough to see the flaws at the limits, so it totaly makes sence to read and trust the magazines , most of the time, the guys that write in them are experts who knows what they are talking about and have done more with the car then most owner will do.

As for finding a good review for every bad review, ok that says nothing, but the problem with the F8x is that unlike every previous generation of M3, there's a bad review for every good review and that says A LOT!!

Then you need to find a new dealership. What salesman expects you to buy a $70k+ USD car without test driving one?

Look at this (short) review of the E92 by Steve Sutcliffe. He just called our beloved car soft and lacking personality compared to the E46... Does that mean we agree? Obviously not since we both are driving Sparkling Graphite E92 M3's.

P.S. Ah still love the sound of the S65

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by W///

Then you need to find a new dealership. What salesman expects you to buy a $70k+ USD car without test driving one?

Look at this (short) review of the E92 by Steve Sutcliffe. He just called our beloved car soft and lacking personality compared to the E46... Does that mean we agree? Obviously not since we both are driving Sparkling Graphite E92 M3's.

P.S. Ah still love the sound of the S65

There are two dealership within 15min of where I live and they both don't let anyone test drive the F8x, the problem is that here in Ottawa, they don't sell much of these cars because they are expensive and not very winter friendly, which by consequence means that each dealerships only has one or two cars at a time and most of the time they end up in the show room to be sold at full price and don't serve as demo cars. That's how it is here in Ottawa, one of the biggest city in Canada, so imagine how much people are in the same situation in the rest of the Canada and elsewhere. That's why I think that magazine and youtube reviews are very helpfull for most people! The only dealership that I know of who could have some demo in stock is in Montreal, so about 2h drive, not worth it for me since I'm not in the market for one of those.

As for the E92 review from Sutcliffe, well it's clear that he loves the car, that I completly understand. As for the softness comment, I gotta say that I also agree with him on this, the car felt too soft for me too, that's why I ordered stiffer spring the first month I received the car. As for it having a bit less personnality then the E46, I can't comment on this because I've never driven one, but what was apparent for me was that the stock exhaust was just too tame for my liking, also something that I took care of the first month of ownership. So overhall I'd say that his review seemed pretty spot on.

I can understand that you loved the F8x on your test drive, as a daily driver the torque must be great, so as a tuned 335. But when you buy a car like this because you want a special car for those special moment where you just want to have fun driving, I don't think the F8x fits the bill as much as the previous M3s did when they came out!

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

As for it having a bit less personnality then the E46, I can't comment on this because I've never driven one,


But when you buy a car like this because you want a special car for those special moment where you just want to have fun driving I don't think the F8x fits the bill as much as the previous M3s did when they came out!

look, it doesn't matter if you do or don't like any car, its your personal opinion and choice.

but, I find it confusing that you could say both of these things and think that this makes sense logically

on one hand, you say you cant comment on the e46 because you haven't driven one (imo, perfectly reasonable comment to make). on the other hand, you say that the f8x isn't as special as prior m cars, yet you haven't driven one....

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

look, it doesn't matter if you do or don't like any car, its your personal opinion and choice.

but, I find it confusing that you could say both of these things and think that this makes sense logically

on one hand, you say you cant comment on the e46 because you haven't driven one (imo, perfectly reasonable comment to make). on the other hand, you say that the f8x isn't as special as prior m cars, yet you haven't driven one....

I can't comment on "the E46 having more personnality then E92" because I don't know much about the E46, have'nt looked at reviews or driven one.

On the other side, I don't see anything wrong in commenting on what I think of the F8x, it's a car that I'm starting to know pretty well. Even though I have'nt driven it, I have read and saw a ton of reviews(because I originaly thought it was going to replace my E92), and after a while you see a lot of similarities in the comments which is enough for me to forge myself an opinion, not a definitive one but an opinion nonetheless.

And BTW, I did'nt say "...the F8x does'nt fit the bill...", I said "...I think the f8x does'nt fit the bill...", there's a BIG difference!

[FogCityM3]

Exactly. the point is that there is no overwhelming consensus, which means the level of scrutiny has to be higher. With a Porsche 991, I know I can buy that car without driving it and be 100% confident based upon credible reviewers that I trust and the fact that an overwhelming consensus is reached.

At a minimum, I would need to drive a new car in the twistys that I ordinarily drive to really compare. I've taken a few loaners on these same drives and what seems fine in a typical test drive around the dealership, once you start attacking driver's roads, the flaws become hugely apparent when there are significant lateral forces, elevation changes, off camber turns, decreasing/increasing radius turns, uphill and downhill stretches with turns. (Guess that is the beauty of living in a seismically active area with some of the best driving roads in the country!). Even something as engine/drivetrain lash/braking is really important (to me) to the feel of the car that is actually hard to achieve on a track or HDPE and my driving in the twistys is 90% of my pleasure driving with the car (vs the track).

Better yet, I'd love to drive the new car at the ///M school, but again it sounds like the MDM is very intrusive and less forgiving than the Euro MDM on the E90, which allows some decent drift and tail out action.

No dealership "test drive" will adequately answer my questions, so I have to rely on consensus opinion. The Porsche 991, Stingray, Cayman, E90M3, and even Ford Fiesta are all examples where at least 80%-90%+ consensus comparisons tests wins would make me comfortable buying the car with just a dealership test drive. In many cases, such as the Boss L/S, ZR-1, GT3, GT350, etc, you won't get a test drive period, let alone one that is adequate.

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

Not everyone can go drive one, so these magazine reviews are all we can look at to get an idea on the new car. And even if my dealership did'nt told me that they don't let anyone test drive these cars, I'm sure the sales man would'nt let me drive it hard enough to see the flaws at the limits, so it totaly makes sence to read and trust the magazines , most of the time, the guys that write in them are experts who knows what they are talking about and have done more with the car then most owner will do.

As for finding a good review for every bad review, ok that says nothing, but the problem with the F8x is that unlike every previous generation of M3, there's a bad review for every good review and that says A LOT!!

[FashionablyFast]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

Not everyone can go drive one, so these magazine reviews are all we can look at to get an idea on the new car. And even if my dealership did'nt told me that they don't let anyone test drive these cars, I'm sure the sales man would'nt let me drive it hard enough to see the flaws at the limits, so it totaly makes sence to read and trust the magazines , most of the time, the guys that write in them are experts who knows what they are talking about and have done more with the car then most owner will do.

As for finding a good review for every bad review, ok that says nothing, but the problem with the F8x is that unlike every previous generation of M3, there's a bad review for every good review and that says A LOT!!

Huh? There were plenty of bad reviews on the E9x M3....I had an E46 at the time the E9x came out and I was on the E46 forums daily. Just about every E46 enthusiast highlighted all the E9x's flaws....much like the E9x enthusiasts are pointing out the F8x's flaws.

Listen, let's just put it this way, M3 enthusiasts, no matter which generation, are very resistant to change.