M3 vs 2018 mustang gt

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by Richbot

All they have done is matched the basic wheel/tire setup of the 1LE withouot doing much to address the Camaro's superior overall chassis other than throw a stickier tire at it. I think it'll still be significantly slower than an SS 1LE on the same tires, but the 1LE doesn't get a DOT-R.

But still, 10.5's and 11's with 305's all around, with mandatory manual just like the Chevy, is pretty rad. Merica. It's still a lot of performance car for $46k (base GT with recaros and PP2), and the SS1LE is right on top of it MSRP-wise.

The springs and sways are different than the PP1.

From Autoblog..

The Level 2 received significant structural bracing — or as Widmann describes it, "Lots of changes in steel." Those changes include extra bracing in the strut towers and the front subframe, as well as thicker sway bars front and rear. The springs are stiffened, too. The promised net result is a more confident flow through corners with less lean

I drove a PP1 level car and still thought they were way under damped. The new PP2 cars with Magnaride really are a different level.

[Richbot]

I'm just saying the camaro's chassis is still just plain better. Packs more wheelbase into the same overall size package, 1" smaller width and height, 100lb lighter, and maybe most critically the PP2 is still plodding along with a Torsen when the Camaro gets a torque-vectoring active diff

Cup2's to Goodyear Supercars I bet they run about the same lap time, but the mags will tell me if my armchair racing is accurate or not soon enough I'm sure

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Mustang if its a GT350. Otherwise its just a Mustang.

I will be picking up a GT350 once the 17s are in the 45k or less range.

So..

I just rented 2018 Mustang GT manual with PP and put about 2k miles on it including some mountain fun.

The 2018 Coyote with direct port is IMO a superior engine to the S65. Revs to almost 8k and has all the torque the S65 lacks. Lots of character and amazing sound. Yes better sound. The S65 wins intake sound though.

In fact besides looks I give the edge to the Mustang in every department.

[65fastback]

Originally Posted by dmk08

So..

I just rented 2018 Mustang GT manual with PP and put about 2k miles on it including some mountain fun.

The 2018 Coyote with direct port is IMO a superior engine to the S65. Revs to almost 8k and has all the torque the S65 lacks. Lots of character and amazing sound. Yes better sound. The S65 wins intake sound though.

In fact besides looks I give the edge to the Mustang in every department.

You sound like a guy who is about to buy a mustang? HA!

Thats a LONG drive, nice!.. good job man thats one way to get to know a car before you buy or not.

[Shrike360]

Originally Posted by dmk08

So..

I just rented 2018 Mustang GT manual with PP and put about 2k miles on it including some mountain fun.

The 2018 Coyote with direct port is IMO a superior engine to the S65. Revs to almost 8k and has all the torque the S65 lacks. Lots of character and amazing sound. Yes better sound. The S65 wins intake sound though.

In fact besides looks I give the edge to the Mustang in every department.

I tried to get a test drive of a GT, but the dealer straight up refused to give me a test drive of a base GT because I wouldn't be interested in buying that specific car. It was listed at $35k... I did at least sit in a premium package car. It was at this point I lost interest in it. The back seat was completely uninhabitable (like BRZ levels of room) and the interior felt way too cheap to me. I understand you make some sacrifices for the price, but still.

The car I'm eyeing right now is a Giulia QV. I've at least sat in it, and quite liked the interior and thought it was just about the right size in every department. Still need to drive one, but I can't imagine it being more dull to drive than the F80 I tested. Am going to wait a year or two on the car, to see how they hold up, to see if the dealer network expands a bit more and if there's a chance Alfa may leave again. Plus, year old cars are sitting near $60k with not much mileage. But boy, hop over to the F80 forums and you'd swear it was worse than a Yugo.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by 65fastback

You sound like a guy who is about to buy a mustang? HA!

Thats a LONG drive, nice!.. good job man thats one way to get to know a car before you buy or not.

I still feel for me to want one it would have to be a GT350.

This post was more just an appreciation for the Coyote motor. It has come a long way.

[65fastback]

Originally Posted by dmk08

I still feel for me to want one it would have to be a GT350.

This post was more just an appreciation for the Coyote motor. It has come a long way.

Yeah it is a rpm happy motor, not alot of torque down low though, (kinda like the m3) ... i seem to remember it starting to pull around 3500 - 4000 rpm ish in the 6 mt gt pp1 i drove.

Honestly that is why i ditched my m3.

I dont do track days so for a street car / weekend cruiser... down low torque or good torque numbers are where its at for me. I just dont like to ring a motor out to feel it put me back in the seat and i dont care much for most turbo cars that ive experienced .

I ended up with a 2018 C7 and honestly dont miss my m3 but thats just me .

Whatever you end up getting iam sure it will be bad @ss ... so many great cars to choose from these days.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by 65fastback

Yeah it is a rpm happy motor, not alot of torque down low though, (kinda like the m3) ... i seem to remember it starting to pull around 3500 - 4000 rpm ish in the 6 mt gt pp1 i drove.

Honestly that is why i ditched my m3.

I dont do track days so for a street car / weekend cruiser... down low torque or good torque numbers are where its at for me. I just dont like to ring a motor out to feel it put me back in the seat and i dont care much for most turbo cars that ive experienced .

I ended up with a 2018 C7 and honestly dont miss my m3 but thats just me .

Whatever you end up getting iam sure it will be bad @ss ... so many great cars to choose from these days.

I wish I fit in a Vette. Sigh

I think the GT500 coming out will probably be an amazing street car.

[Not Sure]

Originally Posted by dmk08

So..

I just rented 2018 Mustang GT manual with PP and put about 2k miles on it including some mountain fun.

The 2018 Coyote with direct port is IMO a superior engine to the S65. Revs to almost 8k and has all the torque the S65 lacks. Lots of character and amazing sound. Yes better sound. The S65 wins intake sound though.

In fact besides looks I give the edge to the Mustang in every department.

gross.

[65fastback]

Originally Posted by dmk08

I wish I fit in a Vette. Sigh

I think the GT500 coming out will probably be an amazing street car.

Your 6'7 i saw you say back a page or two....yeah that might be a tight fit in a vette, bummer. I am sure the gt500 will be a absolute crusher! can't wait to see em.

I am actually thinking of adding a blower to my stingray, they are not that expensive and will give you around 600+ hp to the wheels.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Not Sure

gross.

Truth hurts!

[Visceral]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Truth hurts!

And so does the Mustang's interior.

[Dave07997S]

Actually I find the S550 Mustangs interior to be visually appealing. The lack of quality of the materials is what gets me. Is it a step above what the S197 offered, hell yes.

I actually don't like the way the Coyote Mustang sounds. Yes they are louder and more aggressive than a OEM E9X M3 but the tonal quality IMHO is awful, even with an aftermarket exhaust. Of course this is a matter of opinion. Also, I found the S65 more rev happy and throttle response is better.

The Mustang is such a big car, the M3 feels svelte compared to the Mustang.

Also, it seems the 2018s have some teething issues. Quite a few motors have already let go and the MT82 tranny shift forks seemed to be made of chocolate as they snap with ease.

DKM if you do get a Mustang..wait until 2019 and hope Ford has some engineering fixes for this car. A buddy of mine traded in his 08 E92 M3 for one, Ford is now buying this car back as the engine blew along with the broken tranny shift fork. Its here in Cali and the car has been in the shop now for over 60 days. His car only had 6k miles on her.

I voted to keep my 2013 M3, the performance is quite similar and I have so much equity in my 2013 E92 and enjoy driving it every time I get in it.

I have to say though if I was forced to get a new car the new 2019 and up Mustang GT PP2 would be at the top of the list.

One other thing regarding the GT500, those babies are going to be $75k MSRP and dealers with the ADMs will get well over $100k for them.

Dave

[Visceral]

I can't stress enough how much "connection" with the car matters over the car's ultimate performance. People don't hang on to those 1000-hp GT-Rs for long.

I believe that if you can get past the interior of the GT350, it has the potential for a strong driver connection. I don't know that the PP2, even with its big performance, creates the same. Ultimately that is what I believe the downfall of the Camaro 1LE is. I think it is all capability and no connection. The old Z28 with the LS7 had a lot of potential, but the carbon ceramic brakes worry me as a track consumable.

The E90 is my only M3 for me because of the connection I have with it on the track. I've driven the F80 and it might as well be an Audi RS5. I have zero connection. I don't think the GT500 will be any more connected than a PP2 or an F80 M4.

The Porsche 911 (particularly GT3) is an experience that most other companies are not interested in spending the money to create.

[Dave07997S]

Just read up that the PP2 cars diffy and trannies over heat on track after just a few laps like the 2016 GT350s (non R)did. Bummer...

Ford is pushing this as a track pack yet they don't have tranny and diffy coolers on the car.

Dave

[TTony]

Originally Posted by 65fastback

Yeah it is a rpm happy motor, not alot of torque down low though, (kinda like the m3) ... i seem to remember it starting to pull around 3500 - 4000 rpm ish in the 6 mt gt pp1 i drove.

Honestly that is why i ditched my m3.

I dont do track days so for a street car / weekend cruiser... down low torque or good torque numbers are where its at for me. I just dont like to ring a motor out to feel it put me back in the seat and i dont care much for most turbo cars that ive experienced .

Would a SC have solved that issue?

[65fastback]

Originally Posted by TTony

Would a SC have solved that issue?

if your talking M3 prolly not for me.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

Just read up that the PP2 cars diffy and trannies over heat on track after just a few laps like the 2016 GT350s (non R)did. Bummer...

Ford is pushing this as a track pack yet they don't have tranny and diffy coolers on the car.

Dave

Little correction. You if you got the track pack in a 2016 gt350, it had all the cooling that the R had.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by Visceral

I can't stress enough how much "connection" with the car matters over the car's ultimate performance. People don't hang on to those 1000-hp GT-Rs for long.

I believe that if you can get past the interior of the GT350, it has the potential for a strong driver connection. I don't know that the PP2, even with its big performance, creates the same. Ultimately that is what I believe the downfall of the Camaro 1LE is. I think it is all capability and no connection. The old Z28 with the LS7 had a lot of potential, but the carbon ceramic brakes worry me as a track consumable.

The E90 is my only M3 for me because of the connection I have with it on the track. I've driven the F80 and it might as well be an Audi RS5. I have zero connection. I don't think the GT500 will be any more connected than a PP2 or an F80 M4.

The Porsche 911 (particularly GT3) is an experience that most other companies are not interested in spending the money to create.

My current S2000 and previous Cayman GT4 honestly have way more of that connection to the car than my E92 M3 or GT350 ever did. I really love my GT350, but it honestly just feels way too big and heavy to be enjoyed as a dedicated track car. But that's probably because I have an S2000 that's set up so well and is a freaking complete joy to drive on a race track. Lighter/smaller cars are just way more fun in the corners. I really enjoy my GT350 on the street though.

Here's my GT350 on track last week...1 session before my oil filter backed out and dumped oil on the track for half a mile. I had my break-in oil change done at the dealership because it was free, but either they didn't torque the filter down to spec (they said they did), or its a design problem (ford also changed the filter design to a cartridge style a few months after my car was built). My car seems to run fine, but it ran with low oil pressure as I was slowing the car down. I'm trying to get Ford to give me an extended warranty on the motor because of this mishap. Car is less than a year old and only has 5k miles on it.

[thasuperdude]

Almost the same thing happened to my friend's GT350, but his oil/engine compartment caught fire on track. Total loss of the car. Ford blamed the oil change bring done incorrectly. Then they realized they did the oil change. It still took over 6months to get them to buy back the car. He did not get full-replacement value from Ford.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by thasuperdude

Almost the same thing happened to my friend's GT350, but his oil/engine compartment caught fire on track. Total loss of the car. Ford blamed the oil change bring done incorrectly. Then they realized they did the oil change. It still took over 6months to get them to buy back the car. He did not get full-replacement value from Ford.

Sounds like the same thing happened. The filter backing out has been a fairly common issue with owners. My car went sideways towards a wall when my driver's side rear wheel got enough oil on it. Luckily I corrected it quickly enough and slowed down shortly after. My biggest worry at that moment was the car catching on fire. Luckily it didn't.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

Little correction. You if you got the track pack in a 2016 gt350, it had all the cooling that the R had.

Correct, they also fixed this for the 2017 cars as all cars now get the tranny and diffy coolers. Should have came like this from the get go..

However, I don't like where this is going for Ford. Its not just the Mustang. Ford lost money on every Focus RS it sold in the US. There is a huge recall going on for the head gaskets, the warranty issues on these cars has been enormous. Most of the reasoning is not fully baked engineering on these cars. This isn't just affecting the Focus RS, it involves almost all of Fords performance cars. The Fusion Sport, the Ecoboost Mustang they all are having issues with engines letting go. I keep seeing people tune these cars and I think they are nuts. Ford is being hyper-sensitive to aftermarket tuning unless its a Ford Racing tune.

I have a 2017 Ford Escape now for 2 years and it has been flawless, I hope I just didn't jinx myself.

Dave