Test drove an F80 today...

[spazzyfry123]

Wowee. $80k for a TT? I mean, I hear the RS is the titties, but that's a lot of scratch. I had thought they were a $50k car for some reason.

[romemmy]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Wowee. $80k for a TT? I mean, I hear the RS is the titties, but that's a lot of scratch. I had thought they were a $50k car for some reason.

They start at $43K for the regular 2.0L 4-cylinder turbo, which only produces 220HP and has a 6-speed DSG. Think of this like a standard BMW 3-series, which starts at $35K.

The TTRS is more like the M3. 2.5L 5-cylinder turbo, producing 400HP, with a 7-speed DSG. Also throw in torque vectoring, Quattro mechanism with up to 100% RWD bias, magnetic adjustable suspension, etc, and the base price moves up to $64,900. Considering what you get, a $20K premium is appropriate, and in line with base M3 prices.

The additional $15K are options - technology pack, black optic pack, internal design package, and the big one - the dynamic plus package. The last one adds the carbon ceramic brakes, direct TPMS (allowing individual pressure and temp from each wheel), fixed RS suspension, raised limit from 155mph to 174mph, etc.

It's not a bad deal when everything is taken in to account.

Thanks!

S.

[motion732]

I have a F30 335i m sport and an e92 m3. The F30 interior feels far more luxurious and up-to-date than the e92. Leather in the e92 is much nicer but that's about it

[Dr. Dre]

Originally Posted by Bemo

What part looks amazing? I'm seriously curious and not looking to start a fight?

It's subjective. I think the F8X looks 10 times better than the E9X.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by romemmy

They start at $43K for the regular 2.0L 4-cylinder turbo, which only produces 220HP and has a 6-speed DSG. Think of this like a standard BMW 3-series, which starts at $35K.

The TTRS is more like the M3. 2.5L 5-cylinder turbo, producing 400HP, with a 7-speed DSG. Also throw in torque vectoring, Quattro mechanism with up to 100% RWD bias, magnetic adjustable suspension, etc, and the base price moves up to $64,900. Considering what you get, a $20K premium is appropriate, and in line with base M3 prices.

The additional $15K are options - technology pack, black optic pack, internal design package, and the big one - the dynamic plus package. The last one adds the carbon ceramic brakes, direct TPMS (allowing individual pressure and temp from each wheel), fixed RS suspension, raised limit from 155mph to 174mph, etc.

It's not a bad deal when everything is taken in to account.

Thanks!

S.

Yikes - that, in my opinion, is the single worst option any road car can ever have.

:|

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

Yikes - that, in my opinion, is the single worst option any road car can ever have.

:|

Yea I'd need to have "I don't give an F" money to feel okay replacing carbon ceramics when the time came.

[romemmy]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

Yikes - that, in my opinion, is the single worst option any road car can ever have.

:|

It's not that bad.. Carbon ceramics last a very long time compared to regular brakes. BMW actually claim that their carbon ceramics last the life of the car as long as the car isn't tracked and temps remain below 600 degrees! I don't believe that, but they can have very long street life - over 100Kmiles for the rotors and 50Kmiles for pads aren't unheard of on non-tracked cars. If you track, then yeah, you pay to play, but even then, the rotors should hold up well enough. The TTRS only has them on the front which reduces cost too.

My other car has full carbon ceramics all around and the stopping power is insane, they produce zero dust, and I expect them to last quite some time.

Thanks!

S.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by romemmy

It's not that bad.. Carbon ceramics last a very long time compared to regular brakes. BMW actually claim that their carbon ceramics last the life of the car as long as the car isn't tracked and temps remain below 600 degrees! I don't believe that, but they can have very long street life - over 100Kmiles for the rotors and 50Kmiles for pads aren't unheard of on non-tracked cars. If you track, then yeah, you pay to play, but even then, the rotors should hold up well enough. The TTRS only has them on the front which reduces cost too.

My other car has full carbon ceramics all around and the stopping power is insane, they produce zero dust, and I expect them to last quite some time.

Thanks!

S.

If your in that price range, why don't you wait for the M2 Competition? I don't recall if it has carbon ceramics but uprated brakes are definitely an option. Dealers have the spec lists now and should be receiving their allocations this week. TTRS engine is mega though so I can see the appeal.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Montaver

If your in that price range, why don't you wait for the M2 Competition? I don't recall if it has carbon ceramics but uprated brakes are definitely an option. Dealers have the spec lists now and should be receiving their allocations this week. TTRS engine is mega though so I can see the appeal.

Because M2s are ugly and the S55 sounds horrible still?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by romemmy

The TTRS is more like the M3. 2.5L 5-cylinder turbo, producing 400HP, with a 7-speed DSG. Also throw in torque vectoring, Quattro mechanism with up to 100% RWD bias, magnetic adjustable suspension, etc, and the base price moves up to $64,900. Considering what you get, a $20K premium is appropriate, and in line with base M3 prices.

.

My God the stuff I have to read

The TTRS is like the M3? In which planet?

Over on planet Earth, the TTRS is an econobox piece of crap that is FWD with a Haldex 'AWD' 'system' which is an insult to anyone's intelligence.

No Haldex system is even remotely 'rear drive bias'. Reading this literally makes me wonder if I'm taking crazy pills.
There is **NO** transversal engine Haldex system that is 'rear drive bias'.

If anyone is incapable of reading up on the POS Audi platform the TTRS is based on which is FWD only until higher up models get 'AWD' which is actually still FWD until something slips only has to look at the front tires... which are WIDER than the rears

The TTRS is a complete piece of crap meant to trick the feeble minded with stupidities about 'torque vectoring' and 'rear drive bias'.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by romemmy

My other car has full carbon ceramics all around and the stopping power is insane, they produce zero dust, and I expect them to last quite some time.
.

Stopping power of all sorts of cheap brake systems, including the one piston sliders of the E92 M3, easily overwhelms the tires. People have absolutely no clue what they're talking about.

Carbon ceramics are great to reduce brake dust. Other uses, like tracking, are not intelligent.

For the record, I have tracked the M4 GTS and the Cayman GT4 and would immediately remove those brakes in favor of the PFC BBK. Unsurprisingly, the M4 GTS owner also prefers my PFC BBK (he used to have one)

People that actually know how to drive on the track have destroyed CCBs in a few track days. Obviously if you're doing 3 minute laps around a 2 min 20 second track then you can rave about how they 'transform the car' and 'nothing brakes like this'. Meanwhile Miatas with $30 autozone rotors will be passing you

[SYT_Shadow]

Back on topic, I don't like the F80's turbo engine or electric steering, however, I don't feel like quality has taken a nosedive at all. The F8X in ZCP form has returned to the good old fashioned crushallitsrivals mode that previous generation M3s enjoyed

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Back on topic, I don't like the F80's turbo engine or electric steering, however, I don't feel like quality has taken a nosedive at all. The F8X in ZCP form has returned to the good old fashioned crushallitsrivals mode that previous generation M3s enjoyed

ZCP vs Standard isn't really much besides BMW marketing hype in terms of real world performance. The engine software was re-calibrated in 2016 for all cars and all the ZCP stuff can be flashed to a standard car. Really it was just an attempt to make the car feel better IMO. Which it did to a degree but still numb.

The F8x may crush the competition in track times but definitely not in feel, sound, soul, and quality. Both my F8x had rattles from the factory and imperfections.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by dmk08

ZCP vs Standard isn't really much besides BMW marketing hype in terms of real world performance. The engine software was re-calibrated in 2016 for all cars and all the ZCP stuff can be flashed to a standard car. Really it was just an attempt to make the car feel better IMO. Which it did to a degree but still numb.

The F8x may crush the competition in track times but definitely not in feel, sound, soul, and quality. Both my F8x had rattles from the factory and imperfections.

Car mags that were highly skeptical of the F8X now love the ZCP.

I recall the software was updated on all cars but unfortunately no one reviews a 2015 with 2018 software, much like you don't see a Lightning Lap rematch with a M3 E92 with PS4s tires. (unfortunately)

I've driven a C63S for 350-500 miles and taken it on the track. I would much sooner take a 2015 M.
I haven't driven the RS4/5 as that has always been an understeering piece of junk.
I like the Alfa but don't trust it to leave the parking lot without breaking.

The only things that seem like better driving vehicles are the Americans. The Vette GS, Camaro 1LE, GT350R, etc. But none of these are true competition vs the F8X.

I don't like the direction BMW is taking but it isn't BMW, it is the industry. When you drive a Cayman GT4 modded up the wazoo and undoubtedly prefer the steering in your E90 you realize it's the car industry that's effed up, not BMW.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Car mags that were highly skeptical of the F8X now love the ZCP.

I recall the software was updated on all cars but unfortunately no one reviews a 2015 with 2018 software, much like you don't see a Lightning Lap rematch with a M3 E92 with PS4s tires. (unfortunately)

I've driven a C63S for 350-500 miles and taken it on the track. I would much sooner take a 2015 M.
I haven't driven the RS4/5 as that has always been an understeering piece of junk.
I like the Alfa but don't trust it to leave the parking lot without breaking.

The only things that seem like better driving vehicles are the Americans. The Vette GS, Camaro 1LE, GT350R, etc. But none of these are true competition vs the F8X.

I don't like the direction BMW is taking but it isn't BMW, it is the industry. When you drive a Cayman GT4 modded up the wazoo and undoubtedly prefer the steering in your E90 you realize it's the car industry that's effed up, not BMW.

Funny. I owned the F80 and then the F82 ZCP and put about 15k miles on each. I test drove the C63S Coupe and was in love. I would much sooner buy one of those than another F8x.

Honestly owning the F8x has turned me off of new BMWs all together. Anything F series or newer they can keep it. And now that they've gone to this new headlight design I have even less love.

I would own a Z06 if I were not 6'7".

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Funny. I owned the F80 and then the F82 ZCP and put about 15k miles on each. I test drove the C63S Coupe and was in love. I would much sooner buy one of those than another F8x.

Honestly owning the F8x has turned me off of new BMWs all together. Anything F series or newer they can keep it. And now that they've gone to this new headlight design I have even less love.

I would own a Z06 if I were not 6'7".

That's interesting. I posted my impressions of the C63 S in the 'vs' forum

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

That's interesting. I posted my impressions of the C63 S in the 'vs' forum

The exhaust note had a lot to do with it. It came to the point where I was embarrassed to give my M4 throttle anymore. Babies would cry, women would cover their ears, men would look at me laughing...

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by dmk08

The exhaust note had a lot to do with it. It came to the point where I was embarrassed to give my M4 throttle anymore. Babies would cry, women would cover their ears, men would look at me laughing...

I'm fine with the first two, that happens to me in the E9Xs

The C63S sounded loud and boomy and crackles when you lift off. Kind of like the M4 GTS. It sounds very fake. When you actually drive it and accelerate it just sounds loud and boomy. There's no actual intake or exhaust music.

The Z06 maintains wonderful exhaust sound and sacrifices intake music but at least it has one of the two. Turbos lose everything

The C63S is kind of like the M2, which sounds better than the M3/4, but it's like being a 3 in a scale of 10 vs a 2. Improvement, but still bad

[DSilk]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

My God the stuff I have to read

The TTRS is like the M3? In which planet?

Over on planet Earth, the TTRS is an econobox piece of crap that is FWD with a Haldex 'AWD' 'system' which is an insult to anyone's intelligence.

No Haldex system is even remotely 'rear drive bias'. Reading this literally makes me wonder if I'm taking crazy pills.
There is **NO** transversal engine Haldex system that is 'rear drive bias'.

If anyone is incapable of reading up on the POS Audi platform the TTRS is based on which is FWD only until higher up models get 'AWD' which is actually still FWD until something slips only has to look at the front tires... which are WIDER than the rears

The TTRS is a complete piece of crap meant to trick the feeble minded with stupidities about 'torque vectoring' and 'rear drive bias'.

I would not choose the Audi over a Porsche Cayman S or over a C63, but your criticism is unjustifiably harsh. Yes the TT is based upon the Golf/GTI architecture, but that is a pretty good chassis. And while it was originally designed as a FWD, Audi pioneered AWD with its Quattro coupe and dominated the world rally circuits with it. Let's also be clear about something else. The fact that BMW and Mercedes Benz choose to market only the top versions of their cars here does not mean that there isn't a BMW 316i with cloth seats for sale in Europe or A Class and B Class Mercedes Benz hatchbacks with cloth interiors and anemic 4 cylinder engines. So your vaunted M3 also rides on the same architecture as a 316i.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by DSilk

I would not choose the Audi over a Porsche Cayman S or over a C63, but your criticism is unjustifiably harsh. Yes the TT is based upon the Golf/GTI architecture, but that is a pretty good chassis. And while it was originally designed as a FWD, Audi pioneered AWD with its Quattro coupe and dominated the world rally circuits with it. Let's also be clear about something else. The fact that BMW and Mercedes Benz choose to market only the top versions of their cars here does not mean that there isn't a BMW 316i with cloth seats for sale in Europe or A Class and B Class Mercedes Benz hatchbacks with cloth interiors and anemic 4 cylinder engines. So your vaunted M3 also rides on the same architecture as a 316i.

I have a distinct appreciation for what is available in Europe vs the US. I am European after all and spent many years there.

Even a piece of crap 316i is rear wheel drive, so it has more going for it than FWD cars.

The Golf/GTi is a pretty good architecture, I agree. Pretty good for Skodas, Seats, Volkswagens and Audis that are FWD cars.


I have absolutely no idea what you mean when you say Audi pioneered AWD and Quattro.

'Quattro' means two different things:
-FWD trash for econoboxes which can send some power to the rear once the front loses traction. This is what is on all the transversal engine VAG-group cars
-Actual AWD, available only on the longitudinal engined cars like the A4 on up.


They are both conveniently marketed as 'quattro' to trick the feeble minded.


I stand by my comments. If enthusiasts don't reject aberrations like Haldex AWD systems on performance cars then we can expect more of that garbage in the future

[romemmy]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

My God the stuff I have to read

The TTRS is like the M3? In which planet?

Over on planet Earth, the TTRS is an econobox piece of crap that is FWD with a Haldex 'AWD' 'system' which is an insult to anyone's intelligence.

No Haldex system is even remotely 'rear drive bias'. Reading this literally makes me wonder if I'm taking crazy pills.
There is **NO** transversal engine Haldex system that is 'rear drive bias'.

If anyone is incapable of reading up on the POS Audi platform the TTRS is based on which is FWD only until higher up models get 'AWD' which is actually still FWD until something slips only has to look at the front tires... which are WIDER than the rears

The TTRS is a complete piece of crap meant to trick the feeble minded with stupidities about 'torque vectoring' and 'rear drive bias'.

Wow, so much venom? I know how the Haldex system works, but thought they had made a change to it. Other transverse cars can do it, so thought maybe they had changed it - this is based on articles like this:

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/09...ifferent-cars/

Saying things like "The Haldex all-wheel drive system is now quite happy to throw 100 percent of the engine's torque at the rear wheels", which makes it sound like it's something new. Audi themselves claim that 100% torque can be made to the back. Maybe "bias" was the wrong word - as it has no preset bias. On audiusa.com (their own site), they say about the new TTRS:

"The Audi TT RS employs permanent quattro® all-wheel drive with no set torque distribution. The all-wheel drive system adjusts and fine-tunes to help maximize grip and overall control, sending as much power to the rear wheels as possible."

That sounds like it prefers to send power to the rear when it can. Maybe Audi and the journalists are lying, I don't know - but it does get good reviews on track.

As for torque vectoring, why all the hate? Yes, it is brake-based torque vectoring, but it's technology that is either there or it isn't - and I'd prefer that it was. Anything to get around that corner quicker.

As for my "think of it like an M3", I meant it in the order of things - not that I was comparing it directly to an M3 performance or drivetrain wise - we were talking about cost, so the TTRS is the equivalent of the M3 in Audi's TT range (like the RS3 is to the M3 as the A3 is to a 320i).

Thanks,

S.

[DSilk]

I have absolutely no idea what you mean when you say Audi pioneered AWD and Quattro.

Audi brought AWD to the forefront in rallying, dethroning the Lancia Stratos with a coupe that they named the "Audi Quattro". Is it clear to you now?