High pitch sound possible ground loop issue?

Technic · 03-03-2010, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCtud

bump!
i'm amazed no one else is having this issue if it is related to the software update on enhanced premium sound systems!

It sounds to me like the OEM amp fan electrical noise is somehow passing thru the tweeters...

Dannys M3 · 03-03-2010, 11:30 AM

I have it, increases and decreases with revs. I just turn up the stereo loud, I will not let it drive me crazy like all the rattles did in my first 335i.

Technic · 03-03-2010, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dannys 335i

I have it, increases and decreases with revs. I just turn up the stereo loud, I will not let it drive me crazy like all the rattles did in my first 335i.

That's something else... most probably from the airbox or the belts. I have that noise as well since my first test drive just before purchase and it is not the sound system as I removed it completely once and still the whine is there. And it is coming from the engine itself...

SCtud · 03-03-2010, 12:08 PM

I disconnected the MOST connection to the amp, and the noise disappears so I no longer think it is the amp. I also tried an amp from another EPS M3 that did not emit the sound, and had the same sound coming through.

It looks to me like it is coming through the MOST connection and started immediately after the software update. Seems silly that a software update might cause this, but I have heard reverting to old software has also reduced problems that 335s have had with the HPFP. It is even more silly that I am paying to do BMWs work for them.

Bubbles · 03-03-2010, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCtud

but I have heard reverting to old software has also reduced problems that 335s have had with the HPFP. It is even more silly that I am paying to do BMWs work for them.

Not the case with the 335i, fuel pump and software are unrelated. Good luck with your issue though.

SCtud · 03-03-2010, 12:34 PM

Nevermind - apparently the software issue on the 335 was affecting turbo lag and not the HPFP. Either way, the software seems to have a much larger impact on the car than I thought it would!

Technic · 03-03-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCtud

I disconnected the MOST connection to the amp, and the noise disappears so I no longer think it is the amp. I also tried an amp from another EPS M3 that did not emit the sound, and had the same sound coming through.

It looks to me like it is coming through the MOST connection and started immediately after the software update. Seems silly that a software update might cause this, but I have heard reverting to old software has also reduced problems that 335s have had with the HPFP. It is even more silly that I am paying to do BMWs work for them.

Does your M3 has Assist, iPod, Sirius or any other MOST device? If so, did you use a MOST terminal loop while you were doing this test?

SCtud · 03-03-2010, 02:14 PM

Yes, my car has the assist, ipod and satellite. I don't know what a MOST terminal loop is, so I probably did not do that. All I did was disconnect the MOST connection from the amp.

But given the evidence that an EPS amp from a car that did not have this problem, still had the problem in my car, I think it's reasonable to believe that the amp is not the issue no?

Technic · 03-03-2010, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCtud

Yes, my car has the assist, ipod and satellite. I don't know what a MOST terminal loop is, so I probably did not do that. All I did was disconnect the MOST connection from the amp.

But given the evidence that an EPS amp from a car that did not have this problem, still had the problem in my car, I think it's reasonable to believe that the amp is not the issue no?

By not using the termination loop all your MOST devices were disconnected as well, so the amp cannot conclusively be determined to be the culprit.

Bob MG · 03-04-2010, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCtud

not sure if you were referring to my problem, but you'll note in the video that the sound is there when the car engine is not even on, let alone revving.

jeffz · 03-04-2010, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffz

dead on.. exactly the same issue!

I'm taking my car in Tuesday. I'll post back my results.... Oh and my Check Engine Soon Light came on again on my way home from work today so it had to go back any way.... hopefully this time it comes back in better shape than when it is left.

OK here's the latest on the situation. BMW has a new software version out (don't get excited). My car received the update today; the software didn't make a difference. This was a shot in the dark by the dealer in hopes that BMW fixed the problem with this new release, it did not. So now they are saying that they are planning on replacing the amp and the tweeters. I tried to tell them that this has been done by others with no avail.

That said I have to let them run through their process of diagnosis so it can be run up the chain at BMW engineering. Being and IT guy I understand the reasoning, hardware must be ruled out before you get the software engineers involved. At this point I am quite tempted to have them disconnect the tweeters in my car until they can get the issue resolved, but it really pisses me off I have to lose my highs due to their f'n problem!

btw it seems there is two different conversations going on in this thread. Is it possible for the OPS to move this thread to a separate or shall I start another for future updates?

SCtud · 03-04-2010, 05:32 PM

I had such high hopes

At least they acknowledge that the problem exists instead of maintaining that a dog whistle in your ear while driving is standard "BMW quality".

They should be able to take a car on the lot with an EPS amp and swap it out quite easily instead of forcing you to wait for a new one that will not fix the problem.

Thanks for the update though - I had been anxiously waiting

SCtud · 03-25-2010, 12:54 PM

Update - I tried to escalate this to BMW of North America. They took my complaint and responded with the following:

- They "stand behind their dealers". The field tech rep is the highest they can go and his word is apparently gospel (even if he is clearly wrong). No way to escalate an issue beyond this - good thing it's not a faulty gas pedal where I uncontrollably speed off and they deem it normal?
- A BMW OEM alarm, even though it is built by BMW, for BMW, and pre-wired in my BMW, is not a BMW of North America issue and considered "aftermarket" since it was not installed at the factory.
- My complaint against the dealer is taken down, though there appears to be no actual ramification. I assume if they receive enough complaints, they will admonish the dealer somehow.

I was surprised at the short call time however and the friendly service reps.

BMW PLEASE FIX THIS PROBLEM ASAP.

SCtud · 07-12-2010, 10:38 PM

Not much activity in this thread, but the dealer FINALLY fixed the issue. I am amazed that not more people have had this issue, but I'm assuming that many cannot hear it if they do.

The problem was fixed by replacing the individual audio amp, and they ordered a few additional part numbers which may be a result of the newer amplifiers having some different connections??? (socket terminal mqs and socket housing). This was the exact same solution that was performed to fix jeffz's situation (THANK YOU x100 FOR PROVIDING ME THE EVIDENCE TO PROVE THE BMW SA's I HAD TO DEAL WITH WRONG). It pisses me off that they denied that it was a problem for six months and I had to continue to plead my clear cut case.

While I don't know exactly what went wrong, I believe the following occurred:
1) Older amps in the 2008 production M3s with individual audio
2) Old software worked fine with it
3) Updated software no longer "compatible" with the older amp
4) Need to update amp when software is updated

I could be completely wrong, but after the constant headache inducing sound while driving for the past six months, driving in silence is a beautiful thing.

Marvelous · 09-11-2010, 02:12 AM

I have an 09 e92 with the same exact issue you're describing. So it's the audio amp that is causing this problem?

SCtud · 09-11-2010, 09:09 AM

Was the problem always there? Or did it start after a software update? Do you have the enhanced premium sound?

Marvelous · 09-11-2010, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCtud

Was the problem always there? Or did it start after a software update? Do you have the enhanced premium sound?

I believe I have the enhanced premium sound. It does have the Navigation, Sirius, ipod connection.

I just got the car and I can hear this hissing noise coming from the tweeter. This is with the engine turned off. I'm not sure what software update it has at the moment.

When sitting in the car with the engine off, It sounds as if there is wind leaking into the interior from the outside.

Being that I just got the car I'm still getting familiar with everything.

I'm very disappointed with the quality of this stereo system. My iphone sounds like crap connected to the vehicle while driving also. (crackling noise/hissing with the engine on)

I loaded some music into the hard drive and that also sounds like shit to me. (background noise as well)

I'm getting ready to take it into the dealer to have this checked out. But I want to be as informed as possible to get this taking care of asap.

SCtud · 09-11-2010, 12:22 PM

There is a hissing noise that always comes from the tweeter in every BMW I've sat in, which leads me to believe that that is normal. You shouldn't be able to hear it unless your ear is right up to the tweeter. The high pitch noise is very different. I approximate it at 16khz of a sound (you can download a dog whistle app on your phone and it should be able to play a similar sound).

The enhanced premium system sounds like crap even when it is functioning properly IMO - even worse than logic 7 at low volumes, but functions decently at high volumes but has virtually zero bass (underseat subs are downright pathetic). You can tell if you have the enhanced premium sound if the speakers in the door are colored yellow instead of black.

Crackling noise/hissing shoudln't ever happen through ipod unless you have that in the source material you are playing.

quality_sound · 09-11-2010, 01:43 PM

Weird, I don't have any hissing. I don't have EP, but I still have no hiss.

Marvelous · 09-11-2010, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCtud

There is a hissing noise that always comes from the tweeter in every BMW I've sat in, which leads me to believe that that is normal. You shouldn't be able to hear it unless your ear is right up to the tweeter. The high pitch noise is very different. I approximate it at 16khz of a sound (you can download a dog whistle app on your phone and it should be able to play a similar sound).

The enhanced premium system sounds like crap even when it is functioning properly IMO - even worse than logic 7 at low volumes, but functions decently at high volumes but has virtually zero bass (underseat subs are downright pathetic). You can tell if you have the enhanced premium sound if the speakers in the door are colored yellow instead of black.

Crackling noise/hissing shoudln't ever happen through ipod unless you have that in the source material you are playing.

Interesting. I'll be going to one of my local dealers to check out the new m3's and see if they have this issue also.

Here's a recording I made of the noise I'm talking about.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/53819868@N05/?saved=1

Then there's a very noticeable hissing sound when you're playing a cd. And when you hook up your iphone/ipod, I hear hissing/crackle. I'll make a recording of that later so you can hear what I'm talking about.

I'm just a little disappointed in the quality of the stereo. For the money one pays for such a vehicle. You would expect a lot better.

SCtud · 09-12-2010, 12:32 AM

I don't hear anything in that video. Not sure if your camera picked it up.

Marvelous · 09-12-2010, 12:41 PM

I guess I'm just a little too picky. Here's another recording I made. It's not the best recording, but I believe you can hear what I'm talking about when I get close to the tweeter.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/5381986.../in/datetaken/

This noise isn't too bad, but when you're just sitting in your car relaxing with the engine off and you hear this noise in the background. It can be quiet annoying. imo

Just thought I would share this with other people to see if they're hearing the same thing I am.

If you don't hear anything this time, then I must really be hearing things. lol

03-03-2010, 11:30 AM	#46
Dannys M3 Captain 71 Rep 733 Posts Drives: Jaguar F Type R Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Florida iTrader: (3) Garage List 2008 M3 [10.00]	I have it, increases and decreases with revs. I just turn up the stereo loud, I will not let it drive me crazy like all the rattles did in my first 335i.
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03-03-2010, 12:08 PM	#48
SCtud First Lieutenant 20 Rep 329 Posts Drives: 2008 E93 M3 Join Date: May 2009 Location: CT iTrader: (1)	I disconnected the MOST connection to the amp, and the noise disappears so I no longer think it is the amp. I also tried an amp from another EPS M3 that did not emit the sound, and had the same sound coming through. It looks to me like it is coming through the MOST connection and started immediately after the software update. Seems silly that a software update might cause this, but I have heard reverting to old software has also reduced problems that 335s have had with the HPFP. It is even more silly that I am paying to do BMWs work for them.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-03-2010, 12:34 PM	#50
SCtud First Lieutenant 20 Rep 329 Posts Drives: 2008 E93 M3 Join Date: May 2009 Location: CT iTrader: (1)	Nevermind - apparently the software issue on the 335 was affecting turbo lag and not the HPFP. Either way, the software seems to have a much larger impact on the car than I thought it would!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-03-2010, 02:14 PM	#52
SCtud First Lieutenant 20 Rep 329 Posts Drives: 2008 E93 M3 Join Date: May 2009 Location: CT iTrader: (1)	Yes, my car has the assist, ipod and satellite. I don't know what a MOST terminal loop is, so I probably did not do that. All I did was disconnect the MOST connection from the amp. But given the evidence that an EPS amp from a car that did not have this problem, still had the problem in my car, I think it's reasonable to believe that the amp is not the issue no?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-04-2010, 05:32 PM	#56
SCtud First Lieutenant 20 Rep 329 Posts Drives: 2008 E93 M3 Join Date: May 2009 Location: CT iTrader: (1)	I had such high hopes At least they acknowledge that the problem exists instead of maintaining that a dog whistle in your ear while driving is standard "BMW quality". They should be able to take a car on the lot with an EPS amp and swap it out quite easily instead of forcing you to wait for a new one that will not fix the problem. Thanks for the update though - I had been anxiously waiting
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-25-2010, 12:54 PM	#57
SCtud First Lieutenant 20 Rep 329 Posts Drives: 2008 E93 M3 Join Date: May 2009 Location: CT iTrader: (1)	Update - I tried to escalate this to BMW of North America. They took my complaint and responded with the following: - They "stand behind their dealers". The field tech rep is the highest they can go and his word is apparently gospel (even if he is clearly wrong). No way to escalate an issue beyond this - good thing it's not a faulty gas pedal where I uncontrollably speed off and they deem it normal? - A BMW OEM alarm, even though it is built by BMW, for BMW, and pre-wired in my BMW, is not a BMW of North America issue and considered "aftermarket" since it was not installed at the factory. - My complaint against the dealer is taken down, though there appears to be no actual ramification. I assume if they receive enough complaints, they will admonish the dealer somehow. I was surprised at the short call time however and the friendly service reps. BMW PLEASE FIX THIS PROBLEM ASAP.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-12-2010, 10:38 PM	#58
SCtud First Lieutenant 20 Rep 329 Posts Drives: 2008 E93 M3 Join Date: May 2009 Location: CT iTrader: (1)	Not much activity in this thread, but the dealer FINALLY fixed the issue. I am amazed that not more people have had this issue, but I'm assuming that many cannot hear it if they do. The problem was fixed by replacing the individual audio amp, and they ordered a few additional part numbers which may be a result of the newer amplifiers having some different connections??? (socket terminal mqs and socket housing). This was the exact same solution that was performed to fix jeffz's situation (THANK YOU x100 FOR PROVIDING ME THE EVIDENCE TO PROVE THE BMW SA's I HAD TO DEAL WITH WRONG). It pisses me off that they denied that it was a problem for six months and I had to continue to plead my clear cut case. While I don't know exactly what went wrong, I believe the following occurred: 1) Older amps in the 2008 production M3s with individual audio 2) Old software worked fine with it 3) Updated software no longer "compatible" with the older amp 4) Need to update amp when software is updated I could be completely wrong, but after the constant headache inducing sound while driving for the past six months, driving in silence is a beautiful thing. Last edited by SCtud; 07-13-2010 at 12:29 AM..
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09-11-2010, 02:12 AM	#59
Marvelous Private 0 Rep 50 Posts Drives: 09 m3 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: California iTrader: (0)	I have an 09 e92 with the same exact issue you're describing. So it's the audio amp that is causing this problem?
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09-11-2010, 09:09 AM	#60
SCtud First Lieutenant 20 Rep 329 Posts Drives: 2008 E93 M3 Join Date: May 2009 Location: CT iTrader: (1)	Was the problem always there? Or did it start after a software update? Do you have the enhanced premium sound?
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09-11-2010, 12:22 PM	#62
SCtud First Lieutenant 20 Rep 329 Posts Drives: 2008 E93 M3 Join Date: May 2009 Location: CT iTrader: (1)	There is a hissing noise that always comes from the tweeter in every BMW I've sat in, which leads me to believe that that is normal. You shouldn't be able to hear it unless your ear is right up to the tweeter. The high pitch noise is very different. I approximate it at 16khz of a sound (you can download a dog whistle app on your phone and it should be able to play a similar sound). The enhanced premium system sounds like crap even when it is functioning properly IMO - even worse than logic 7 at low volumes, but functions decently at high volumes but has virtually zero bass (underseat subs are downright pathetic). You can tell if you have the enhanced premium sound if the speakers in the door are colored yellow instead of black. Crackling noise/hissing shoudln't ever happen through ipod unless you have that in the source material you are playing.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-11-2010, 01:43 PM	#63
quality_sound 8 tracks of madness 62 Rep 2,735 Posts Drives: Slowly Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: At home iTrader: (1)	Weird, I don't have any hissing. I don't have EP, but I still have no hiss.
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09-12-2010, 12:32 AM	#65
SCtud First Lieutenant 20 Rep 329 Posts Drives: 2008 E93 M3 Join Date: May 2009 Location: CT iTrader: (1)	I don't hear anything in that video. Not sure if your camera picked it up.
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09-12-2010, 12:41 PM	#66
Marvelous Private 0 Rep 50 Posts Drives: 09 m3 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: California iTrader: (0)	I guess I'm just a little too picky. Here's another recording I made. It's not the best recording, but I believe you can hear what I'm talking about when I get close to the tweeter. http://www.flickr.com/photos/5381986.../in/datetaken/ This noise isn't too bad, but when you're just sitting in your car relaxing with the engine off and you hear this noise in the background. It can be quiet annoying. imo Just thought I would share this with other people to see if they're hearing the same thing I am. If you don't hear anything this time, then I must really be hearing things. lol
	Appreciate 0 Quote