BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Politics/Religion
 
European Auto Source (EAS)
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-18-2018, 12:52 PM   #67
IK6SPEED
Major General
IK6SPEED's Avatar
United_States
2143
Rep
6,420
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
No way those concessions are to blame for a ballooning number like that.

Also, "art of the deal"?
Really?

That’s where the pork comes in to get it through Congress. Pork is the art if the deal.

At least it’s better than Obama’s 33% increase in 2014-2015 if you want to blame it on POTUS.

POTUS has called on all cabinet members to cut their budget by 5%.

How much pork from both sides of Congress will get cut?
__________________
Stable: F80 / AH3
Past: F80 ZCP / F22 M235i / E89 35is
Appreciate 0
      10-18-2018, 12:59 PM   #68
IK6SPEED
Major General
IK6SPEED's Avatar
United_States
2143
Rep
6,420
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
The only president in our lifetimes that hasn't massively increased the budget deficit is Bill Clinton, it that is mostly like due to Newt Gingrich more than anyone else.

Bill Clinton: 1 percent decrease
And thatís only because recessions are cyclical and the USA came out of one in September 2002 2 months before he was elected.

Furthermore, you had a once in a lifetime event (Internet) that occurred while in office that even the dumbest POTUS (whoever you consider that is) couldnít screw up with mad money from Wall Street. Of course, that lead to an Economic Bust in the last year of his 2nd term, because, once again....everything is cyclical.
__________________
Stable: F80 / AH3
Past: F80 ZCP / F22 M235i / E89 35is
Appreciate 0
      10-18-2018, 12:59 PM   #69
usshelena725
Silent Service
usshelena725's Avatar
United_States
2546
Rep
1,019
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i E93
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: East Tennessee

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Really?

Thatís where the pork comes in to get it through Congress. Pork is the art if the deal.

At least itís better than Obamaís 33% increase in 2014-2015 if you want to blame it on POTUS.

POTUS has called on all cabinet members to cut their budget by 5%.

How much pork from both sides of Congress will get cut?


Oh, oh! I know, I know! Pick me!

I'll take 0% for a thousand, Alex.
__________________
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
Appreciate 0
      10-18-2018, 01:01 PM   #70
usshelena725
Silent Service
usshelena725's Avatar
United_States
2546
Rep
1,019
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i E93
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: East Tennessee

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
And thatís only because recessions are cyclical and the USA came out of one in September 2002 2 months before he was elected.

Furthermore, you had a once in a lifetime event (Internet) that occurred while in office that even the dumbest POTUS (whoever you consider that is) couldnít screw up with mad money from Wall Street. Of course, that lead to an Economic Bust in the last year of his 2nd term, because, once again....everything is cyclical.

To be fair, and I am a strong conservative, whilst all the items you mention did occur, one needs to at least give a nod to Newt and Clinton for working together to create a decent budget for those years. It certainly could have been worse. Imagine if Obama was in office those years? (Shudder).
__________________
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
Appreciate 4
minn194027.50
glennQNYC2363.00

      10-18-2018, 01:05 PM   #71
brettbmw
Private
19
Rep
97
Posts

Drives: 2014 320i 2013 328i
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: glens falls ny

iTrader: (0)

deficit

Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
While everybody is distracted by, DNA tests, assassinations and more porn star stuff.....The deficit grew 17% in fiscal 2018. This is obviously very bad considering how good the economy is. Thoughts?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-gov...018-1539626598
Trump will get us out of this mess...
Appreciate 1
Lups9955.00

      10-18-2018, 01:12 PM   #72
minn19
Brigadier General
minn19's Avatar
United_States
4028
Rep
4,850
Posts

Drives: 18 M3, 16 F150,
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Minnesota

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by brettbmw View Post
Trump will get us out of this mess...
We'll see...........
Appreciate 1
Lups9955.00

      10-18-2018, 01:58 PM   #73
IK6SPEED
Major General
IK6SPEED's Avatar
United_States
2143
Rep
6,420
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
And that’s only because recessions are cyclical and the USA came out of one in September 2002 2 months before he was elected.

Furthermore, you had a once in a lifetime event (Internet) that occurred while in office that even the dumbest POTUS (whoever you consider that is) couldn’t screw up with mad money from Wall Street. Of course, that lead to an Economic Bust in the last year of his 2nd term, because, once again....everything is cyclical.

To be fair, and I am a strong conservative, whilst all the items you mention did occur, one needs to at least give a nod to Newt and Clinton for working together to create a decent budget for those years. It certainly could have been worse. Imagine if Obama was in office those years? (Shudder).
When you have that much excessive revenue from internet capital gains on wallstreet pouring virtually unlimited funds into startup to rocket economy which begats more tax revenue, as stated before, a trained chip could balance a budget.
__________________
Stable: F80 / AH3
Past: F80 ZCP / F22 M235i / E89 35is
Appreciate 0
      10-18-2018, 02:01 PM   #74
usshelena725
Silent Service
usshelena725's Avatar
United_States
2546
Rep
1,019
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i E93
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: East Tennessee

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
When you have that much excessive revenue from internet capital gains on wallstreet pouring virtually unlimited funds into startup to rocket economy which begats more tax revenue, as stated before, a trained chip could balance a budget.

Ah, but yet - before and after - none ever have....
__________________
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
Appreciate 1
      10-18-2018, 02:10 PM   #75
Real Dodger
Always exploring.....
Real Dodger's Avatar
United_States
3946
Rep
4,829
Posts

Drives: 135i DCT
Join Date: May 2017
Location: McKinney TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 135  [5.00]
Justinium and IK6speed/JPNH in the same thread? Its like 2017 all over again!
__________________
praeses decurrit sicut puella
Appreciate 1
Lups9955.00

      10-18-2018, 02:33 PM   #76
JohnnyCanuck
Major
Canada
875
Rep
1,044
Posts

Drives: 2016 M235i xDrive
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
There were several items that did need budgetary increases, such as specific military and border security items, however, these should have been matched by greater cuts in funding from places that the federal government has no business spending money, such as the endowment for the arts, etc - but they weren't. It is shameful.
I'm singling this comment out as an example of the irrationality that is endemic in this debate. It is not isolated, and owns no partisan boundaries, but this particular statement can be used to illustrate the degree to which perception completely obscures fact.

US Federal budget is $4.1 trillion for 2018. The combined funding for the "endowment for the arts" is $800 million (.019%). US military spending alone increased by $54 billion between 2017 and 2018. Eliminating the "endowment for the arts" would mean a net increase of $53.2 billion for military spending. It's de minimis.

So called "non-defense discretionary spending" is 16% ($656 billion). Yet, you're currently spending almost $500 billion on interest on debt alone (with trend line that puts it to almost a trillion dollars inside of a decade). To cover the debt through cuts to this alone you would have to, over the next three to five years, eliminate every federal government spend except military and non-discretionary (Social Insurance, Medicare, Medicaid).

Who's kidding who? You cannot balance the US budget with it's current revenue base without eliminating federal agencies and not just popular whipping posts like the EPA, but FEMA and the FBI, substantially contracting social security, medicare, medicaid and cutting back on military expenditure. It's simply not possible.

At some point, a responsible government needs to look at the revenue side and can't simply ascribe itself to the disproved notion of trickle down economics. Fundamental tax reform that increases revenue (and therefore taxation) is required to balance the US budget (tax cuts that over-stimulated an already growing economy was undoubtedly the worst medicine for the problem). Restraint on spending is also required, but the "endowment for the arts" is not the culprit ... not remotely and suggesting that the cure rests in "areas the federal government should not be involved in" totally obscures the truth. Those are not drivers of the fiscal mess that is the US federal government financial picture.
Appreciate 2
minn194027.50

      10-18-2018, 02:53 PM   #77
tracer bullet
Lieutenant Colonel
tracer bullet's Avatar
United_States
501
Rep
1,561
Posts

Drives: '11 135i , '15 X3 35i
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Saint Paul, MN

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Hmm... I see several engineers manning the train, including..

List of US Presidents and % increase in the federal budget deficit:

Lyndon Johnson: 11 percent increase
Richard Nixon: 20 percent increase
Gerald Ford: 38 percent increase
Jimmy Carter: 36 percent increase
Ronald Reagan: 82 percent increase
George H.W. Bush: 36 percent increase
George W. Bush: 57 percent increase
Barack Obama: 57 percent increase
Donald Trump: 21 percent increase


So this obviously isn't a Trump problem or a Republican problem, it is an America problem. The only president in our lifetimes that hasn't massively increased the budget deficit is Bill Clinton, it that is mostly like due to Newt Gingrich more than anyone else.

Bill Clinton: 1 percent decrease
These #'s are over 4 and 8 years? That could make the current jump seem a bit different (higher) in comparison.

Also I'd be curious how these compare to GDP, or other similar metrics, to put things in better perspective.

I tend to agree it's an America problem. But I think deficit as a % GDP jumped when Obama hit office and steadily decreased, this year however it's for the first time started to go the other direction. I find that odd givent he economy and an unsettling turn of direction. Largely a result of tax cuts which are hard to turn down but not truly needed. Cuts which don't seem to have paid for themselves as I'd heard they would per the leaders.
Appreciate 1
minn194027.50

      10-18-2018, 02:56 PM   #78
usshelena725
Silent Service
usshelena725's Avatar
United_States
2546
Rep
1,019
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i E93
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: East Tennessee

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post

US Federal budget is $4.1 trillion for 2018. The combined funding for the "endowment for the arts" is $800 million (.019%). US military spending alone increased by $54 billion between 2017 and 2018. Eliminating the "endowment for the arts" would mean a net increase of $53.2 billion for military spending. It's de minimis.

Fair, let us use some more dramatic items then, since you failed to see the (etc) in my post.

Eliminate all funding for the following departments:

Labor Dept: Saves $40,124,000,000
HUD: Saves $55,010,000,000
DOE: Saves $25,800,000,000
Postal Regulatory Commission: Saves $15,100,000,000

I found about another 20 or so agencies with budgets in the $100,000,000 range that I've never even heard of before - so there is another $2B that we can dump.


It's not a revenue problem, it's a spending problem.
__________________
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
Appreciate 1
      10-18-2018, 03:05 PM   #79
Real Dodger
Always exploring.....
Real Dodger's Avatar
United_States
3946
Rep
4,829
Posts

Drives: 135i DCT
Join Date: May 2017
Location: McKinney TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 135  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Fair, let us use some more dramatic items then, since you failed to see the (etc) in my post.

Eliminate all funding for the following departments:

Labor Dept: Saves $40,124,000,000
HUD: Saves $55,010,000,000
DOE: Saves $25,800,000,000
Postal Regulatory Commission: Saves $15,100,000,000

I found about another 20 or so agencies with budgets in the $100,000,000 range that I've never even heard of before - so there is another $2B that we can dump.


It's not a revenue problem, it's a spending problem.
I always thought if I ran for president, one of my slogans would be "All federal employees should not vote for me. I'm coming after their jobs".

My other slogan would be "No more speed limits for good drivers".......
__________________
praeses decurrit sicut puella
Appreciate 1
      10-18-2018, 03:07 PM   #80
usshelena725
Silent Service
usshelena725's Avatar
United_States
2546
Rep
1,019
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i E93
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: East Tennessee

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post

My other slogan would be "No more speed limits for good drivers".......


I still want us to go back to the "Maintain Safe Speed" speed limit signs I remember seeing in NV and AZ back in the day.
__________________
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
Appreciate 2
minn194027.50
Lups9955.00

      10-18-2018, 03:18 PM   #81
minn19
Brigadier General
minn19's Avatar
United_States
4028
Rep
4,850
Posts

Drives: 18 M3, 16 F150,
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Minnesota

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Fair, let us use some more dramatic items then, since you failed to see the (etc) in my post.

Eliminate all funding for the following departments:

Labor Dept: Saves $40,124,000,000
HUD: Saves $55,010,000,000
DOE: Saves $25,800,000,000
Postal Regulatory Commission: Saves $15,100,000,000

I found about another 20 or so agencies with budgets in the $100,000,000 range that I've never even heard of before - so there is another $2B that we can dump.


It's not a revenue problem, it's a spending problem.
I would've 100% agreed with this 2 decades/pre 9/11 ago. But, now thanks to a number of factors and mainly mismanagement/irresponsibility of both sides it has become a revenue problem as well. The debt and debt service is just to high to solve the problem by cutting spending alone.
Appreciate 1
      10-18-2018, 03:39 PM   #82
usshelena725
Silent Service
usshelena725's Avatar
United_States
2546
Rep
1,019
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i E93
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: East Tennessee

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
I would've 100% agreed with this 2 decades/pre 9/11 ago. But, now thanks to a number of factors and mainly mismanagement/irresponsibility of both sides it has become a revenue problem as well. The debt and debt service is just to high to solve the problem by cutting spending alone.
I appreciate the honest response, but I think we are coming from two different perspectives and will have to just agree to disagree on this one.

If we enacted the above cuts I mentioned and reduced spending on other major budgetary line items by a modest 2-3%, we could easily service the debt expense with those savings. If we don't borrow any more money, the principle balance will decrease over time as will the interest payments. Over many years, it would eventually be paid.

Now - will this ever actually happen? No freaking way, it's just a pipe dream - but it is possible.....just very improbable.
__________________
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
Appreciate 1
minn194027.50

      10-18-2018, 03:55 PM   #83
JohnnyCanuck
Major
Canada
875
Rep
1,044
Posts

Drives: 2016 M235i xDrive
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Fair, let us use some more dramatic items then, since you failed to see the (etc) in my post.

Eliminate all funding for the following departments:

Labor Dept: Saves $40,124,000,000
HUD: Saves $55,010,000,000
DOE: Saves $25,800,000,000
Postal Regulatory Commission: Saves $15,100,000,000

I found about another 20 or so agencies with budgets in the $100,000,000 range that I've never even heard of before - so there is another $2B that we can dump.


It's not a revenue problem, it's a spending problem.
Let's just say you're right and there's no overarching policy imperatives to what you propose. Congrats, you've found $150 billion in savings and reduced the current year deficit which is projected to be almost $800 billion (CBO's May projection) to $650 billion or close to the true defense budget. Where are you going find it? What else can you cut?

It is both a revenue problem and a spending problem.

Look. government debt in of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. Not specific to jurisdiction, but governments need to build bridges, highways, hospitals, airports, traffic control systems, schools, etc. Using debt for long term capital projects and infrastructure is akin to us and our mortgages. If there is such a think a s "good debt" that's it. Also, government can provide stimulus in bad economic times and there is an argument to support deficits to do so. But, when government program and interest spending routinely and significantly exceed revenue ... that's credit card debt. Successive US Congresses and Administrations have created the problem ... your credit cards are maxed out. How on earth can that be fixed by cutting spending alone? You need to find a trillion dollars a year (and climbing) in spending cuts to get there. Without gutting mandatory expenditures and military spending ... you can't. Therefore, you either have to address the revenue side as well or go bankrupt. No other way out.

It is both a revenue problem and a spending problem.

This is not a Republican or Democratic problem, they're equally to blame. The only President to take the issue of deficit and debt seriously was Clinton. Prior to Clinton, you have to go back to Calvin Coolidge to find a President who, over the cycle of their Presidency, had a net surplus (and yes, wartime administrations like Roosevelt and Truman have an excuse ... but that kind of proves the point). Prior to Reagan, it probably could be argued that it was a spending problem more than anything else. But, starting with Reagan, it's been tax cut after tax cut after tax cut following the horse's ass of trickle down economics that has proven only one thing: it doesn't grow the economy enough to replace the lost tax revenue.

It is both a revenue problem and a spending problem.
Appreciate 2
minn194027.50

      10-18-2018, 04:05 PM   #84
usshelena725
Silent Service
usshelena725's Avatar
United_States
2546
Rep
1,019
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i E93
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: East Tennessee

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
Let's just say you're right and there's no overarching policy imperatives to what you propose. Congrats, you've found $150 billion in savings and reduced the current year deficit which is projected to be almost $800 billion (CBO's May projection) to $650 billion or close to the true defense budget. Where are you going find it? What else can you cut?

It is both a revenue problem and a spending problem.

Look. government debt in of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. Not specific to jurisdiction, but governments need to build bridges, highways, hospitals, airports, traffic control systems, schools, etc. Using debt for long term capital projects and infrastructure is akin to us and our mortgages. If there is such a think a s "good debt" that's it. Also, government can provide stimulus in bad economic times and there is an argument to support deficits to do so. But, when government program and interest spending routinely and significantly exceed revenue ... that's credit card debt. Successive US Congresses and Administrations have created the problem ... your credit cards are maxed out. How on earth can that be fixed by cutting spending alone? You need to find a trillion dollars a year (and climbing) in spending cuts to get there. Without gutting mandatory expenditures and military spending ... you can't. Therefore, you either have to address the revenue side as well or go bankrupt. No other way out.

It is both a revenue problem and a spending problem.

This is not a Republican or Democratic problem, they're equally to blame. The only President to take the issue of deficit and debt seriously was Clinton. Prior to Clinton, you have to go back to Calvin Coolidge to find a President who, over the cycle of their Presidency, had a net surplus (and yes, wartime administrations like Roosevelt and Truman have an excuse ... but that kind of proves the point). Prior to Reagan, it probably could be argued that it was a spending problem more than anything else. But, starting with Reagan, it's been tax cut after tax cut after tax cut following the horse's ass of trickle down economics that has proven only one thing: it doesn't grow the economy enough to replace the lost tax revenue.

It is both a revenue problem and a spending problem.


We will have to respectfully disagree. I gave just a few examples, I could easily get rid of 20 times what I showed and still have a functioning government.

Unfortunately, we all know that things will never change, so it's a mute point. If the government tripled the income tax rate, then the government would just increase spending by that much plus another 10%, so no amount of increase in taxes is going to solve the problem.

Of course, it belays me to discuss taxation and governmental policy with a Canadian. 273,000 people immigrated to Canada last year. In the USA, it was 1,170,000. So people obviously feel this is the better option.
__________________
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
Appreciate 0
      10-18-2018, 04:58 PM   #85
JohnnyCanuck
Major
Canada
875
Rep
1,044
Posts

Drives: 2016 M235i xDrive
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
We will have to respectfully disagree. I gave just a few examples, I could easily get rid of 20 times what I showed and still have a functioning government.
If you can't find it, I don't believe you. If you're going to say that it's just a spending problem ... what are you going to cut? Are you going to cut defense? Are you going to cut mandatory expenditures? If you're not, you can't get there as the total spend outside those areas is barely more than the current deficit (and within the next few years will actually be less).

Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Unfortunately, we all know that things will never change, so it's a mute point. If the government tripled the income tax rate, then the government would just increase spending by that much plus another 10%, so no amount of increase in taxes is going to solve the problem.
Obviously there's an issue there, but Bill Clinton actually did eliminate deficits during his Presidency so it's not impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Of course, it belays me to discuss taxation and governmental policy with a Canadian. 273,000 people immigrated to Canada last year. In the USA, it was 1,170,000. So people obviously feel this is the better option.
Not sure if this is tongue in cheek. I'll assume it is and not respond except to point out the obvious: both Canada and the US limit immigration ... the only difference is the level (and both are under 1% per capita).

Last edited by JohnnyCanuck; 10-18-2018 at 09:27 PM.
Appreciate 1
minn194027.50

      10-18-2018, 07:16 PM   #86
Lups
...
Lups's Avatar
9955
Rep
14,899
Posts

Drives: I don't own a car.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lost as usual

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Well, those comments are just ridiculous.

1) Tax cuts went to nearly every American. The percentage salary increase from the tax cuts was 1.6 percent, for the average household earning $50,000 to $75,000. A household earning $1 million or more would get an income bump of 3.3 percent. The top 1% earners pay 39.5 percent of all federal income taxes, however, so it seems to be appropriate for them to have a slightly larger return.

2) I would be perfectly fine if they paid for the tax cuts by tying Social Security to the average life expectancy, so that it would be exactly what it was designed for - to cover your expenses if you lived longer that expected and ran out of retirement savings. Medicaid should be limited in time and scope unless you are on it and cannot work for a legitimate medical reason. Medicare I am okay with, at least until we are able to revamp our medical insurance programs for the elderly.



Sources:

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/01/de...ding-tax-line/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ts/1070287001/
Inflation.

By screen is in bits so I can't explain.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
You're still a little new here, so I'll let you in on a little secret. Whenever Lups types gibberish, this is an opportunity for you to imagine it to be whatever you'd like it to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
How would you know this? Did mommy catch you jerking off to some Big Foot porn ?
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:08 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST