BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
INDustry distribution
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-23-2022, 01:00 PM   #20483
P1zzaboy
Private First Class
29
Rep
103
Posts

Drives: E93 M3 '08
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Quebec, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Studded winter tires are really a plus for driving on ice. There is no better learning experience than ice driving at the limit!

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMLRCSbM8/
Appreciate 3
tsk941265.50
DrFerry2655.50
      01-23-2022, 01:03 PM   #20484
dogbone
Colonel
dogbone's Avatar
4611
Rep
2,669
Posts

Drives: '09 E90 M3 - IB
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: 93 million miles from the Sun

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 BMW E92 M3  [0.00]
2009 BMW E90 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelse92 View Post
Will be there instructing and driving my FRS
Was considering that Chin event but it sold out….made some other plans at COTA that I’ll write about soon on my thread.
Appreciate 2
Kelse921061.50
derbo2893.00
      01-23-2022, 02:37 PM   #20485
dogbone
Colonel
dogbone's Avatar
4611
Rep
2,669
Posts

Drives: '09 E90 M3 - IB
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: 93 million miles from the Sun

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 BMW E92 M3  [0.00]
2009 BMW E90 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk94 View Post

Beyond being incredibly fun, it's also excellent car control practice to an extent that simply cannot be matched with any road course driving. It really hones your seat of the pants feel for what the car is doing, understeer or oversteer and the car is much more sensitive to inputs (particularly the pedals). It really forces you to be deliberate and smooth with the inputs you put in.

dogbone Shame your daughter wasn't able to attend that. If you haven't done one yourself, sign up for one with her! I'm sure you'd have a ton of fun as well.
Yup, I participated in the Audio Club offering at the same lake in Jan 2019. I signed up three people---my older daughter who was 16, my dad and me. We had two vehicles for the three drivers. It was fantastic! Highly recommended. My daughter, who had NO concept of countersteering, was successfully drifting around a single cone with an X5 and traction control completely off by the end of the day.

My 2018 Tundra was one of our vehicles. Had so much fun tossing it around.


This event was particularly nice because they were ok if you wanted to mess around a bit after a drill on your way back to the line, as long as it was away from everyone. So, you finish a drill and then....uhh....take the long way back.....Hey, it's a lake. There's plenty of room!
Appreciate 1
tsk941265.50
      01-23-2022, 02:52 PM   #20486
e36clubracer
First Lieutenant
237
Rep
305
Posts

Drives: F350, f80 M3, e92 M3, e36 M3
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbone View Post
Frisby Tires is the main source for Pirelli DH. Other places may sell or stock them, but Frisby is the source. Frisby is also the source if you need something special ordered directly from Pirelli corporate like DM compounds.

In my experience, DH is 1-2 seconds faster than A7. I did side by side same day comparison of new DH and A7 this past summer.
Thanks that's good info to start with. We'll be using them for sprints and enduros so ultimate laptime while important isn't the only thing. Curious to see how the DH lasts over longer stints.
Appreciate 0
      01-23-2022, 03:04 PM   #20487
dogbone
Colonel
dogbone's Avatar
4611
Rep
2,669
Posts

Drives: '09 E90 M3 - IB
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: 93 million miles from the Sun

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 BMW E92 M3  [0.00]
2009 BMW E90 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by e36clubracer View Post
Thanks that's good info to start with. We'll be using them for sprints and enduros so ultimate laptime while important isn't the only thing. Curious to see how the DH lasts over longer stints.
If you've ever watched SRO GT4 racing where they run DH for an hour-long race with one driver change and no tire change, the tires hold up pretty well, but you cannot run maximum qualifying/time attack pace for the whole race. You need to manage the tires.

I watched one race where an Audi R8 just ditched the field in the first 10-15 minutes of the race, and then ever so slowly, the field started catching up. By the mid-race driver change, the field was basically caught up, and then the next Audi driver had cooked tires. They interviewed the first driver and he was bagging on the DH. But c'mon man......an hour long race on one set of tires with a heavy GT4 car REQUIRES some kind of tire management!
Appreciate 0
      01-23-2022, 06:58 PM   #20488
admranger
Retired Curmudgeon
admranger's Avatar
United_States
1970
Rep
3,374
Posts

Drives: ‘19 X3M40i, ‘18 m550i
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas, NV

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbone View Post
And then today she tells me she slid on ice yesterday and lost control for a few seconds…….dang it!
Did they ever find her control?

Look where you want to go and if you're going off, look for open spaces. Drill that into her and it may help in the end. Don't center punch the telephone pole.

There used to be a formal ice/snow driving school up at Steamboat Springs. Is that an option for your daughter?
__________________

'19 X3 M40 Carbon Black/Oyster
'18 M550i Mediterranean Blue/Ivory

Last edited by admranger; 01-23-2022 at 07:03 PM..
Appreciate 0
      01-23-2022, 07:12 PM   #20489
Bimmer Barney
Major
Bimmer Barney's Avatar
660
Rep
1,158
Posts

Drives: 2011.5 E90M ZCP
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: California

iTrader: (4)

Added some alcantara to the interior because alcantara weighs less than carbon leather and racecar. If I remove my dirty floor mat I will save even more weight!
Attached Images
 
__________________
2011.5 E90 M3 DCT ZCP Slicktop
Appreciate 4
///Mobbin1263.00
roastbeef10730.00
derbo2893.00
      01-23-2022, 07:59 PM   #20490
roastbeef
Lieutenant General
roastbeef's Avatar
United_States
10730
Rep
12,319
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (3)

you can trade those floor mats for beer and they'll go fast.
__________________
Instagram; @roastbeefmike
Appreciate 1
      01-24-2022, 10:19 AM   #20491
dogbone
Colonel
dogbone's Avatar
4611
Rep
2,669
Posts

Drives: '09 E90 M3 - IB
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: 93 million miles from the Sun

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 BMW E92 M3  [0.00]
2009 BMW E90 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by admranger View Post
Did they ever find her control?

Look where you want to go and if you're going off, look for open spaces. Drill that into her and it may help in the end. Don't center punch the telephone pole.

There used to be a formal ice/snow driving school up at Steamboat Springs. Is that an option for your daughter?
haha I don't know.....she seems out of control most of the time! nono she's a good kid.

I've heard about Steamboat Springs' ice driving, but that's over 3 hours away.....Georgetown Lake is less than an hour from me. Would be nice to keep it somewhat local.

OK, so after some more searching around, I found an event organizer who seems to be on Georgetown Lake quite a few weekends throughout the Winter. They're called Our Gang Ice Racing. https://ourgangiceracing.com

Not only do they have a race series on the lake; they also have something called Sunday Fun Day Track that is not competitive---32 car limit, 4 hours to run as much as you want on a practice course for $60. Four drivers can drive in one car for that fee. So, I've signed up for Sunday Feb 6. I have no idea if it's good, bad or otherwise, but I'm hoping it's cool. Honestly, I hope they simply run the event because everyone (including them) has been cancelling their events due to lack of ice depth. I'm hoping in a couple weeks the ice will be better.

Last edited by dogbone; 01-24-2022 at 10:24 AM..
Appreciate 1
admranger1969.50
      01-24-2022, 11:12 AM   #20492
DRLane
Colonel
DRLane's Avatar
2328
Rep
2,417
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (20)

dogbone I just registered for that Sunday as well! Looking forward to it and fingers crossed the temps drop...
__________________
Not a Doctor, those are just my initials.
Appreciate 2
dogbone4611.00
DrFerry2655.50
      01-24-2022, 11:40 AM   #20493
dogbone
Colonel
dogbone's Avatar
4611
Rep
2,669
Posts

Drives: '09 E90 M3 - IB
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: 93 million miles from the Sun

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 BMW E92 M3  [0.00]
2009 BMW E90 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRLane View Post
dogbone I just registered for that Sunday as well! Looking forward to it and fingers crossed the temps drop...
Nice! Will be fun to see ya out there!-----as long as they actually run the event.....
Appreciate 1
DRLane2328.00
      01-24-2022, 11:43 AM   #20494
Bartledoo
Just Some F****** Guy
Bartledoo's Avatar
United_States
2376
Rep
2,568
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Just wanted to post this up again for advice on whether this could be assembly error…

“ So, question for you guys. On the student’s car that I talked about last week, the springs on his MCS were boinging away when the wheels were steered. His shop still said it is normal, which I know it’s not. When I watched through the wheel well while he turned the wheel, the spring was not rotating with the shock body 100% (causing the spring to constantly skip), so the top perch is not spinning freely relative to the chassis. Is this potentially an assembly error with the MCS?”
__________________
E90M 6MT Slicktop Single Humper in need of a diet
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2022, 12:40 PM   #20495
//steve\\
Captain
//steve\\'s Avatar
United_States
944
Rep
928
Posts

Drives: 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
Just wanted to post this up again for advice on whether this could be assembly error…

“ So, question for you guys. On the student’s car that I talked about last week, the springs on his MCS were boinging away when the wheels were steered. His shop still said it is normal, which I know it’s not. When I watched through the wheel well while he turned the wheel, the spring was not rotating with the shock body 100% (causing the spring to constantly skip), so the top perch is not spinning freely relative to the chassis. Is this potentially an assembly error with the MCS?”
I would think so....old camber plates with a center bearing that's just completely worn out or half seized? That would be the most likely culprit I'd think. I feel like that's where the rotation should be happening.
__________________
Steve::::2012 AW E92::::IG - @sjs0433
Appreciate 1
Bartledoo2375.50
      01-24-2022, 01:27 PM   #20496
admranger
Retired Curmudgeon
admranger's Avatar
United_States
1970
Rep
3,374
Posts

Drives: ‘19 X3M40i, ‘18 m550i
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas, NV

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
Just wanted to post this up again for advice on whether this could be assembly error…

“ So, question for you guys. On the student’s car that I talked about last week, the springs on his MCS were boinging away when the wheels were steered. His shop still said it is normal, which I know it’s not. When I watched through the wheel well while he turned the wheel, the spring was not rotating with the shock body 100% (causing the spring to constantly skip), so the top perch is not spinning freely relative to the chassis. Is this potentially an assembly error with the MCS?”
I don't have specific MCS experience, but there should be slip rings between the springs and camber plate (if the camber plate doesn't have them built in). They're available from the vendors.
__________________

'19 X3 M40 Carbon Black/Oyster
'18 M550i Mediterranean Blue/Ivory
Appreciate 1
Bartledoo2375.50
      01-24-2022, 02:41 PM   #20497
Bartledoo
Just Some F****** Guy
Bartledoo's Avatar
United_States
2376
Rep
2,568
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by //steve\\ View Post
I would think so....old camber plates with a center bearing that's just completely worn out or half seized? That would be the most likely culprit I'd think. I feel like that's where the rotation should be happening.
All brand new parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by admranger View Post
I don't have specific MCS experience, but there should be slip rings between the springs and camber plate (if the camber plate doesn't have them built in). They're available from the vendors.
Ok I’ll look into what his parts list included. The guy didn’t research the set of parts and order like one of us would. He just told the shop he wanted x upgrades and they were the ones figuring it out (or not figuring it out I suppose).
__________________
E90M 6MT Slicktop Single Humper in need of a diet
Appreciate 1
admranger1969.50
      01-24-2022, 05:54 PM   #20498
berns
Lieutenant
1068
Rep
577
Posts

Drives: '07 E90 335i
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
All brand new parts.



Ok I’ll look into what his parts list included. The guy didn’t research the set of parts and order like one of us would. He just told the shop he wanted x upgrades and they were the ones figuring it out (or not figuring it out I suppose).
https://www.bimmerworld.com/Suspensi...UaAozfEALw_wcB
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2022, 07:05 PM   #20499
Bartledoo
Just Some F****** Guy
Bartledoo's Avatar
United_States
2376
Rep
2,568
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by berns View Post
Are those necessary with ground control street camber plates? I thought they had a bearing to allow rotation. Thanks.
__________________
E90M 6MT Slicktop Single Humper in need of a diet
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2022, 12:27 AM   #20500
berns
Lieutenant
1068
Rep
577
Posts

Drives: '07 E90 335i
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
Are those necessary with ground control street camber plates? I thought they had a bearing to allow rotation. Thanks.
They are in addition to. I run GC camber plates with Eibach main springs + tenders. no noise or binding issues. Spring height and tension and rate can all come into play I'm sure.
Appreciate 1
Bartledoo2375.50
      01-26-2022, 09:55 PM   #20501
Bimmer Barney
Major
Bimmer Barney's Avatar
660
Rep
1,158
Posts

Drives: 2011.5 E90M ZCP
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: California

iTrader: (4)

Im registered for Speed District Feb 12 at Laguna. It's a loud day. Hope to see some of you guys out there. Might be they're only day at laguna according to them.
__________________
2011.5 E90 M3 DCT ZCP Slicktop
Appreciate 3
slcook54786.50
roastbeef10730.00
Davisca4551374.50
      01-26-2022, 10:41 PM   #20502
kyippee
Lieutenant Colonel
kyippee's Avatar
United_States
1045
Rep
1,606
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, Supra MK5, F44 235GC
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
Just wanted to post this up again for advice on whether this could be assembly error…

" So, question for you guys. On the student's car that I talked about last week, the springs on his MCS were boinging away when the wheels were steered. His shop still said it is normal, which I know it's not. When I watched through the wheel well while he turned the wheel, the spring was not rotating with the shock body 100% (causing the spring to constantly skip), so the top perch is not spinning freely relative to the chassis. Is this potentially an assembly error with the MCS?"
Sounds like when my GC camber plate bearings blew. Boings with low speed turning
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2022, 11:02 PM   #20503
Bartledoo
Just Some F****** Guy
Bartledoo's Avatar
United_States
2376
Rep
2,568
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyippee View Post
Sounds like when my GC camber plate bearings blew. Boings with low speed turning
Yea that’s the strange part because his are brand new, and both sides are doing it, which makes me think there is an assembly error or something.
__________________
E90M 6MT Slicktop Single Humper in need of a diet
Appreciate 1
PrimeBMW503.50
      01-26-2022, 11:09 PM   #20504
slcook54
Lieutenant
slcook54's Avatar
787
Rep
490
Posts

Drives: 2012 MR M3 / 2018 SMB M3 CS
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney View Post
Im registered for Speed District Feb 12 at Laguna. It's a loud day. Hope to see some of you guys out there. Might be they're only day at laguna according to them.
I'm there on Sunday. Hopefully we'll cross paths soon.

Also FYI, Laguna is closed for 5 months starting in November for resurfacing.
__________________
Instagram: slcook54
Appreciate 1
Davisca4551374.50
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:35 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST