E9x M3 LAP TIMES (Road Course)

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD

thats what he said...rear aero lifts the front so it understeers cause there is less front grip than rear (pushes the back down causing front end lift)

That isn't what I said. Rear aero pushes down the rear relative to the front it doesn't push up the front. If a front splitter is added after does it push the rear back up or just the front down?

[TheKosherStogie]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

That isn't what I said. Rear aero pushes down the rear relative to the front it doesn't push up the front. If a front splitter is added after does it push the rear back up or just the front down?

semantics, its the front relative to the rear

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD

semantics, its the front relative to the rear

True. Sooner or later I will have to get aero for myself and give it a shot. Stayed away to this point because little intimidated messing with getting it right.

[bigjae1976]

rear aero changes the balance of the car. it doesn't lift the front end.

[Triple M]

Originally Posted by RWE

DD GT3 RD,

We have a custom splitter design with APR that balances the GT-250 perfectly on the e9x chassis. It also mounts to several stock locations on the front of the car. Only thing required for proper fit is a flat bottom lip and some drilling by the installer. Comes in two materials, the one pictured and a slightly thicker honeycomb carbon, in case you want to stand on it . Get some front end bite and your car will be in the 29's in no time.

Seen that car at WSIR. Fast as hell!!!! Rif and the guys tear up out there

[admranger]

Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD

^thanks

Hahaha I hit too many but I thought u want to go over the last right one to be further over so when going around the last left exiting the straight that it would be good to further right so it's less of a turn? it upsets the car too much?

Next time you (or anyone else) is at BW running CW, at the beginning of the esses look all the way through to riverside/talledega turn and there is a power line tower that gives you a straight line reference through the esses. It'll help to keep you off the kerbs (which you should do, as mentioned). Try it. It works.

The old ones you could clobber, but when they put in the higher ones, ugh. Really upsets the balance of the car and tosses your head around unnecessarily.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by admranger

Next time you (or anyone else) is at BW running CW, at the beginning of the esses look all the way through to riverside/talledega turn and there is a power line tower that gives you a straight line reference through the esses. It'll help to keep you off the kerbs (which you should do, as mentioned). Try it. It works.

hmmm I've been through there many times. I don't see what you're talking about.....can you point out what you're referring to in the pic below?

[Billj747]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

rear aero changes the balance of the car. it doesn't lift the front end.

If the wing mount is behind the rear wheel centerline (pretty much every wing is), then any rear down force will unload the front. More rear downforce, the further back the wing is, the more it unloads the front.

Put the car on scales and put weight on the wing, you will see the front weights are less.

You don't HAVETO have a splitter if you have a wing. Cars need more rear DF than front. A wing will almost always make a car faster on track. But you'll get to a point where more rear df will start to hurt the balance of the car (but will still be much faster than a wingless car).

Add a splitter adds front DF (and yes can unload the reader to an insignificant degree) but allows you to add even more rear df to go even faster.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by Billj747

If the wing mount is behind the rear wheel centerline (pretty much every wing is), then any rear down force will unload the front. More rear downforce, the further back the wing is, the more it unloads the front.

Put the car on scales and put weight on the wing, you will see the front weights are less.

You don't HAVETO have a splitter if you have a wing. Cars need more rear DF than front. A wing will almost always make a car faster on track. But you'll get to a point where more rear df will start to hurt the balance of the car (but will still be much faster than a wingless car).

Add a splitter adds front DF (and yes can unload the reader to an insignificant degree) but allows you to add even more rear df to go even faster.

Interesting...the seller of my car got wing uprights that were 5-6 inches higher than the stock ones and added canards for the front to try to balance things out. The side benefit of having the wing 5-6 inches higher is that I can now see fully out the rear.

[Greg S]

Originally Posted by Billj747

If the wing mount is behind the rear wheel centerline (pretty much every wing is), then any rear down force will unload the front. More rear downforce, the further back the wing is, the more it unloads the front.

But you'll get to a point where more rear df will start to hurt the balance of the car (but will still be much faster than a wingless car).

Add a splitter adds front DF (and yes can unload the reader to an insignificant degree) but allows you to add even more rear df to go even faster.

Absolutely regarding taking weigh off the front of the car, something I've played around with on the scales. I'll be publishing some numbers in the next 2 months or so of a wing mounted ~2" behind the body line vs one that's mounted ~16" behind the body line. One of the advantages of running it further rearward is that you can run several fewer degrees AOA to achieve the same downforce numbers at the rear axle versus having it mounted over the trunk lid. The wing also gets in cleaner air the further back and higher up you mount it. Both of these lead to less drag for the same amount of downforce.

Another "+1" to having balanced aero, I see a lot of cars in the paddock running a rear wing with way too much AOA/downforce relative to the amount of front downforce they're creating, leading to a lot of high speed understeer.

-Greg S

[admranger]

Originally Posted by dogbone

hmmm I've been through there many times. I don't see what you're talking about.....can you point out what you're referring to in the pic below?

Sorry, been away a bit.

The worker tower comes into view when you get to the right hander just in front of the camera. It's all the way down by Talledega.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

Interesting...the seller of my car got wing uprights that were 5-6 inches higher than the stock ones and added canards for the front to try to balance things out. The side benefit of having the wing 5-6 inches higher is that I can now see fully out the rear.

Having the wing higher also puts it into clean(er) air, making the rear wing work better.

[apexkingjusto]

No lime rock times??

[arter]

Originally Posted by apexkingjusto

No lime rock times??

They would have to plow the snow off first

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by arter

They would have to plow the snow off first

Snow? What's that?

Anyhow, here's my fast lap for the day from today:

Car: 997.2 GT3 RS
Track: Buttonwillow 13CW
Best Lap Time: 1:57.72
Brakes: OEM w/ME20 Endless pads & Endless fluid
Suspension: OEM with RS front lip
Mods: Fabspeed track pipes
Tire (Street/Race): NT01s (front) and RA1s (rear)

[admranger]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

Snow? What's that?

Anyhow, here's my fast lap for the day from today:

Car: 997.2 GT3 RS
Track: Buttonwillow 13CW
Best Lap Time: 1:57.72
Brakes: OEM w/ME20 Endless pads & Endless fluid
Suspension: OEM with RS front lip
Mods: Fabspeed track pipes
Tire (Street/Race): NT01s (front) and RA1s (rear)

How was the balance with the RA-1s on the rear? Hopefully they were worn or shaved first.

Thinking about it for a second, I could see where this combo could be an advantage. Softer sidewalls of the RA-1 allow for more bite upon acceleration. Rubber compounds are exactly the same, so no grip issues, just balance issues would be my guess.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by admranger

How was the balance with the RA-1s on the rear? Hopefully they were worn or shaved first.

Thinking about it for a second, I could see where this combo could be an advantage. Softer sidewalls of the RA-1 allow for more bite upon acceleration. Rubber compounds are exactly the same, so no grip issues, just balance issues would be my guess.

Car felt better the 2nd track day once the rears were "broken in" a bit and running a little more pressure in the rear to get rid of some high speed understeer.

I actually picked up 4 unshaved RA1s from a Rennlist member who has a warehouse full of them. I can always pick up shaved ones from him for a good price as he doesn't have any other unshaved ones left.

[radiantm3]

E92 M3 6 Speed Manual

Track/course: Thunderhill (bypass)
Best Lap Time: 2:03.1
Brakes: Brembo 380 / Endless Pads
Tires: Hankook TD 265/35/18 295/30/18
Suspension: Ohlin RT, Vorschlag Camber Plates, RD Sport Sways
Other mods: Akra Evo, ESS Tune, M3 GTS Aero, Half Cage

I was running 2:08-9 my last time at this track (over the top) so I think I'm starting to get the hang of things. I know I can hit sub 2:00 with a few more events.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

E92 M3 6 Speed Manual

Track/course: Thunderhill (bypass)
Best Lap Time: 2:03.1
Brakes: Brembo 380 / Endless Pads
Tires: Hankook TD 265/35/18 295/30/18
Suspension: Ohlin RT, Vorschlag Camber Plates, RD Sport Sways
Other mods: Akra Evo, ESS Tune, M3 GTS Aero, Half Cage

I was running 2:08-9 my last time at this track (over the top) so I think I'm starting to get the hang of things. I know I can hit sub 2:00 with a few more events.

Nice. I ran a 2:08 and change my first time out there in the GT3 and I'm anxious to see what I can run now. You should come out to the PCA GGR event on March 29/30 at Thunderhill. I'm planning on being up there that weekend.

[TheKosherStogie]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

Snow? What's that?

Anyhow, here's my fast lap for the day from today:

Car: 997.2 GT3 RS
Track: Buttonwillow 13CW
Best Lap Time: 1:57.72
Brakes: OEM w/ME20 Endless pads & Endless fluid
Suspension: OEM with RS front lip
Mods: Fabspeed track pipes
Tire (Street/Race): NT01s (front) and RA1s (rear)

Big improvement. Congratulations

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by TheKosherStogie

Big improvement. Congratulations

Thanks. I had a 700hp+ track viper rabbit that I was chasing. There's still a lot of room for improvement though.

[PrimeBMW]

Car: E46 M3 5-speed (308 rwhp)
Track: Thunderhill (by pass)
Best lap: 1:57.01
Brakes: AP Racing / Cobalt Friction XR-1
Suspension: MCS triple
Tires: Yokohama A-005 with 24+ heat cycles