Fun Daily

[shmad]

my vote goes for GTI.

[MJBO]

Considering the considerable upfront cost of a second (or I suppose in your case third) vehicle, plus all it’s associated registration, insurance and maintenance costs, is it really that expensive to drive the M3?

It kind of feels like the situation where someone sells their car to buy a new one that is slightly more fuel efficient to save money, the math doesn’t work.

[kyrix1st]

Z3 1.9 5MT. Gear shifts are nice, comes with Clutch or Torsen type LSD standard, fun to drive around back roads. If you sacrifice some cornering capabilities, 2.8 is also nice.

[Cerberus]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Great idea on the Fiesta ST. I completely forgot about those things. They can be had hardly used well within budget, and I see some incentives on brand new that isn't far off. Heck, my local Ford dealership has $7k off MSRP their entire Focus ST inventory before you even get into negotiations.

I love my Fiesta ST!

Lightly used ones are easily within your budget and new ones are heavily discounted.

It’s a lot more fun to drive on the street than my m3 at legal speeds. In fact, more enjoyable than my GT3 too.

As mentioned earlier, the interior is cheap, but has been dead reliable so far with the exception of the blend door failing. Definitely get the Recaro seats. They make the m3’s chairs feel like slip n slides. The ride is a little rough and brittle, but the trade off is instant agility and go kart reflexes.

It’s invisible and inexpensive to mod. It’s my favorite car to just have fun and laugh when driving.

Good luck with your decision!

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by Mike@IND

In that price range, I'd certainly be considering an R56 Cooper S or E91 328, though admittedly I'd want something a little different to my E90 since that's already in the garage. I always thought the R56 was a great balance between fun and creature comforts. The GTI is always the sensible choice, I think...but the MKVII is still out of reach at that price point.

I maintain that my best daily was my ZHP, though prices for a good one seem to command quite the premium. Hard to ever cross the ZHP off of a fun daily list!

Why the R56 over the F56? I had an R53 which was a blast, but I'd question its daily usability.

My very first choice when realizing that I probably need to look at something else was a Mini Hatch S. Seems to check a lot of boxes. Would I still be expecting BMW maintenance tax? I imagine we're looking to spend more than a Corolla.

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

R56 is pretty entertaining
GTi is also a pretty good option
New Civic Si will be entertaining

So far the best daily I've had is either the E46 M3 or the 330Ci. The 330 was manual, RWD, sporty, powerful enough to have fun, great mileage, cheap to maintain


One of my little sisters have a F56 Mini Cooper, the turbo one with 3 cylinders and I find it tons of fun to drive! You have to wring it out but it has proper dynamics and encourages you to drive with momentum. It's a metric boatload of fun

It pains me that the GTI is the option, but I just can't stomach another VW with the history I've had with them.

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by MJBO

Considering the considerable upfront cost of a second (or I suppose in your case third) vehicle, plus all it’s associated registration, insurance and maintenance costs, is it really that expensive to drive the M3?

It kind of feels like the situation where someone sells their car to buy a new one that is slightly more fuel efficient to save money, the math doesn’t work.

I figure the car will end up costing $350-ish a month if I finance (with insurance). I will immediately more than double my MPG. At the rate the M3 guzzles gas, I will spend roughly $20/day, or $400/month in only fuel. By doubling my gas mileage, the "new" car will cost me $150-$200 a month. Factor in M3 oil changes at $230 every 2-3 months, this "new" car at about $50-$60 at the same pace, that's a difference of an additional $80-ish saved a month. Adding in other expensive maintenance items such as $700 for two front rotors, and, and, and... It starts to become clear that the added cost of a car in the price range I'm looking at begins to actually save me money comparatively to driving the M3. If I was closer to work, it would be a no-brainer that the M3 gets driven every day. But with a decent commute...

Then there's the immeasurable savings in that I get to keep the M3 as a "special" car rather than toss on 100 miles a day of traffic and highway dullness.

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Z3 1.9 5MT. Gear shifts are nice, comes with Clutch or Torsen type LSD standard, fun to drive around back roads. If you sacrifice some cornering capabilities, 2.8 is also nice.

I've even considered the Z3 Coupe! My mom had one back in the day and that thing was just too. damn. cool.

Originally Posted by Cerberus

I love my Fiesta ST!

Lightly used ones are easily within your budget and new ones are heavily discounted.

It’s a lot more fun to drive on the street than my m3 at legal speeds. In fact, more enjoyable than my GT3 too.

As mentioned earlier, the interior is cheap, but has been dead reliable so far with the exception of the blend door failing. Definitely get the Recaro seats. They make the m3’s chairs feel like slip n slides. The ride is a little rough and brittle, but the trade off is instant agility and go kart reflexes.

It’s invisible and inexpensive to mod. It’s my favorite car to just have fun and laugh when driving.

Good luck with your decision!

Thanks for the recommendation for the Recaros. That was the only option I was on the fence with.

[quiksi]

spend some time in the recaros before you decide, especially if it's going to be used as a daily. there are enough folks out there that don't like them.

[MJBO]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

I figure the car will end up costing $350-ish a month if I finance (with insurance). I will immediately more than double my MPG. At the rate the M3 guzzles gas, I will spend roughly $20/day, or $400/month in only fuel. By doubling my gas mileage, the "new" car will cost me $150-$200 a month. Factor in M3 oil changes at $230 every 2-3 months, this "new" car at about $50-$60 at the same pace, that's a difference of an additional $80-ish saved a month. Adding in other expensive maintenance items such as $700 for two front rotors, and, and, and... It starts to become clear that the added cost of a car in the price range I'm looking at begins to actually save me money comparatively to driving the M3. If I was closer to work, it would be a no-brainer that the M3 gets driven every day. But with a decent commute...

Then there's the immeasurable savings in that I get to keep the M3 as a "special" car rather than toss on 100 miles a day of traffic and highway dullness.

It sounds like you’ve done the maths so it actually makes sense for you

I run two cars, the second is purely a work car (small SUV, good for lugging camera gear, taking off the beaten track and not worrying too much about little dings or scratches, tax deductible), but I drive that far less than my M3.

Having done the fun-car-plus-beater thing a few years back, I realised how much I missed driving the nice car everyday that I worked hard for

6 weeks in, over 2000kms added to my E90 M3

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Why the R56 over the F56? I had an R53 which was a blast, but I'd question its daily usability.

My very first choice when realizing that I probably need to look at something else was a Mini Hatch S. Seems to check a lot of boxes. Would I still be expecting BMW maintenance tax? I imagine we're looking to spend more than a Corolla.



It pains me that the GTI is the option, but I just can't stomach another VW with the history I've had with them.

The last comparo between the Si and the GTi by C&D said the Si was significantly more fun to drive IIRC

[IND-Distribution]

I was saying R56 based on price point given that you'll likely put some $$ into maintenance to sort it right off the bat...but honestly I also think the R56's proportions are a bit more flattering than the newer chassis.

The GTI is certainly the tried and true choice...but while they're a great drive, I just don't find the motivation to actually put the money down for one.

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Why the R56 over the F56? I had an R53 which was a blast, but I'd question its daily usability.

It pains me that the GTI is the option, but I just can't stomach another VW with the history I've had with them.

[TTony]

Early 2000's Porsche Boxster S. They are fun to drive and does not compete with the E90. It's a totally different experience (drop top, 6 cyl), reliable and gets good gas mileage.

[Damage Inc]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Whew. I certainly cannot justify more than doubling my initial budget for this car. I would say low $20k's would be my limit for the A to B duty.

LOL " bump your budget slightly" which = $20k more cracking me up

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by Damage Inc

LOL " bump your budget slightly" which = $20k more cracking me up

My thoughts exactly.

I read through your post as well. How are you liking you recent commuter purchase? Congrats on the beast that is the R8, too. Sinister looking in all black.

[Damage Inc]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Well I've made a recent move with work, and while a beneficial upward movement, this move will also demand more time at the office out of me. Up to this point, the pair of us have been carpooling since she has to pass by my work to get to hers. It's been great with the amount of money we save on fuel and added maintenance costs with just her Jeep and my E90 in the garage. We keep the Bimmer at home, and pile into the Jeep for daily duty. However, as I find myself staying in the office later I've come to realize that I can't have her idling out in the parking lot waiting on me to get out of a meeting.

Sure, the E90 checks just about every single box for a car that just about does it all. But with a long commute each way, I don't find it being the right car with its terrible gas mileage and higher maintenance costs. I have no interest in getting rid of the E90 and would like to continue its role of a garage car that gets taken out once or twice a week. So...enter the need for a cheaper commuter car.

I can't not have fun, so I don't see myself going after a Camry or a Prius or whichever toaster oven on wheels. I won't be buying new and would like to keep the price at $15k or possibly more if it is something worth getting CPO.

The car's needs:
Reliable and easy/cheap-ish to maintain
Good MPG (predominately highway)
Some creature comforts (Bluetooth, decent sound, relative comfort, heated seats, etc.)
Some fun and cool factor

I've thought Mini Cooper S, but I had an R53 that may have been a bit too connected to the road. Hoping newer ones are more refined and reliable?
I like the newer Miatas, but are they too go-karty? I imagine the S2000s are in the same boat
Heck, maybe I just need to pick up a clean 328 wagon?

What are your thoughts?

-Tyler

I just went through a similar buying process. I always had a single car whether M car or 911 to do all duties. Recently swapped to 2 cars with an R8 dedicated garage / fun car plus need for DD. $15k to $22k budget. Figured the GTI was a slam dunk till I drove it. Felt too spartan, I was a bit shocked. I guess I'm not a "hot hatch" kinda guy....

Long story short I picked up a 14 320i sport pack 25k miles for $16k. I went for the most bang for my buck, low cost, commuter car that had a little bit of luxury. Granted I have 2 kids so 4 doors was a must (plus we take this car for road trips). While I would not consider it a "fun" car, there's zero "overhead" for the daily commute. I dont care if its raining, who I park next to, I can take my coffee with me, cold start doesnt wake up the neiighbors, 35 mpg highway, etc. Just get in and drive, and its cheap to own. I'm biased to German build quality and driving dynamics.

The downside is its a hot mess for a sport sedan (more of a commuter car than sports car), the trans is a bit jerky in S mode, interior materials are pretty cheap for BMW levels, and its not really a "sports sedan" like my 03 ZHP manual.

I didnt bother looking at mini's but that could be a cheap, fun engaging type car.

[Damage Inc]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

My thoughts exactly.

I read through your post as well. How are you liking you recent commuter purchase? Congrats on the beast that is the R8, too. Sinister looking in all black.

I'm fine with the 320i. It does all the duties fine. Sitting in traffic, driving in the rain, parking in tight spots downtown for meetings, porting kids. But I was very focused on keeping my price down. If I'm honest, I probably would have enjoyed the 328 sportsline a bit more. The 320i feels outright cheap with the plastic interior and 180 hp motor. But I came across a killer deal and pulled the trigger. Plus I wanted SOME warranty remaining in case of any expensive repairs. I dont want spend a dime on this DD, would rather put mods on the R8

I almost pulled the trigger on a $26k 15 528i. Then caught myself... do I really need to spend that much for a car that will sit outside, driven 4k miles a year, and only be used as needed? Flipped back to the lower end of my budget and glad I did.

I decided I wanted a "mindless" DD. Just get in and drive vs. the R8 overhead But its a lot more exciting that an Accord or Camry. Still has a little BMW sport DNA left in it. But that's what you have the M3 for. SUPER glad I got the sport pack. The BMW sport seats are second to none. I found the non sport 3 series very "floaty", pretty bad.

Good luck!

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by MJBO

It sounds like you’ve done the maths so it actually makes sense for you

I run two cars, the second is purely a work car (small SUV, good for lugging camera gear, taking off the beaten track and not worrying too much about little dings or scratches, tax deductible), but I drive that far less than my M3.

Having done the fun-car-plus-beater thing a few years back, I realised how much I missed driving the nice car everyday that I worked hard for

6 weeks in, over 2000kms added to my E90 M3

I may have been too aggressive with my daily commute mileage. I sat down and did real math with the running costs associated to the E90 instead of my basic quick numbers before posting this thread. I did not include my monthly finance payment nor insurance for the M3 in this comparative analysis as removing those costs is not an option as the car ain't goin' nowhere

Regardless, my math is only focusing on the Monday through Friday commute as that is the only reason this discussion has been brought on and removes any weekend runs with the car, trips for vacation, etc. With a more realistic mileage constant, I estimate the M3 with have $502.84 in monthly running costs on top of its insurance and my current monthly finance payment. This amount includes what it will cost monthly for oil changes, tires, brakes, etc. and an added cushion for other outstanding items based on my last year of experience with the car as well as upcoming items that will need to be addressed.

This same math using Edmunds' annual "True Cost to Own" feature to obtain average maintenance/repair costs for various vehicles has given me a better and more accurate picture of what makes sense financially. I have ultimately arrived at that for the costs to balance, I should focus on a vehicle <$15k.

As an example, the average cost of a lower mileage example R56 Mini Cooper S is about $11,000. Factor in an additional 7% for state taxes and the current rates to finance the car to keep cash in the bank for the "big plan" (with the expectation to pay off early, not that it matters on cars relative to eliminating finance costs), I should expect to pay roughly $13,000 total. This results in $504.16 in monthly costs with monthly fuel, maintenance/repair, finance, and estimated insurance rates.

This effectively means I get an R56 Mini Cooper S for free since its expected monthly cost is estimated to be the same as the running costs needed to commute the M3. Alternatively based on the same research and math...A new/slightly used Fiesta ST would cost me $628.37 ($125 delta) and a newer F56 Mini Cooper S at $693.91 ($190 delta).

To avoid excessive finance costs (I will take the finance charge hit over a period of time in lieu of reducing our savings account since we are set on buying a house in the next two years), I need to focus on 2012+ cars. I simply cannot find a better solution than an R56 Cooper S.

Anyone have an alternative?

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by Damage Inc

I just went through a similar buying process. I always had a single car whether M car or 911 to do all duties. Recently swapped to 2 cars with an R8 dedicated garage / fun car plus need for DD. $15k to $22k budget. Figured the GTI was a slam dunk till I drove it. Felt too spartan, I was a bit shocked. I guess I'm not a "hot hatch" kinda guy....

Long story short I picked up a 14 320i sport pack 25k miles for $16k. I went for the most bang for my buck, low cost, commuter car that had a little bit of luxury. Granted I have 2 kids so 4 doors was a must (plus we take this car for road trips). While I would not consider it a "fun" car, there's zero "overhead" for the daily commute. I dont care if its raining, who I park next to, I can take my coffee with me, cold start doesnt wake up the neiighbors, 35 mpg highway, etc. Just get in and drive, and its cheap to own. I'm biased to German build quality and driving dynamics.

The downside is its a hot mess for a sport sedan (more of a commuter car than sports car), the trans is a bit jerky in S mode, interior materials are pretty cheap for BMW levels, and its not really a "sports sedan" like my 03 ZHP manual.

I didnt bother looking at mini's but that could be a cheap, fun engaging type car.

Honestly the GLI may have been the better choice in your case over the GTI (you still made the right choice with the 320 regardless). I had a 2012 and a 2013.5 GLI since new. While I won't necessarily use the word "refined," I did find that the GLI was a bit more forgiving than the GTI with its chassis. Same drivetrain, sure, but it was a much more comfortable ride than the GTI apples to apples (same year, DSG, Autobahn package, navigation, Fender audio, etc.).

Originally Posted by Damage Inc

I'm fine with the 320i. It does all the duties fine. Sitting in traffic, driving in the rain, parking in tight spots downtown for meetings, porting kids. But I was very focused on keeping my price down. If I'm honest, I probably would have enjoyed the 328 sportsline a bit more. The 320i feels outright cheap with the plastic interior and 180 hp motor. But I came across a killer deal and pulled the trigger. Plus I wanted SOME warranty remaining in case of any expensive repairs. I dont want spend a dime on this DD, would rather put mods on the R8

I almost pulled the trigger on a $26k 15 528i. Then caught myself... do I really need to spend that much for a car that will sit outside, driven 4k miles a year, and only be used as needed? Flipped back to the lower end of my budget and glad I did.

I decided I wanted a "mindless" DD. Just get in and drive vs. the R8 overhead But its a lot more exciting that an Accord or Camry. Still has a little BMW sport DNA left in it. But that's what you have the M3 for. SUPER glad I got the sport pack. The BMW sport seats are second to none. I found the non sport 3 series very "floaty", pretty bad.

Good luck!

I find myself in a similar situation with wanting the mindless commuter, but I constantly have the internal struggle because I have no issue with driving the bare bones and engaging M3 that I have every day as it is. Since I will be the only person that will drive this car with the only intention being for a commute, it really doesn't matter. Let's get a fun little car that won't beat me up too much, and I won't beat myself up when I spill my coffee on the highway commute when the jack@ss decides to text and swerve into my lane.

I love our Jeep XJ Limited. Despite it being an absolute cherry of a car and me searching for months and travelling to buy, I still don't mind parallel parking it over at Piedmont Park for us to grab dinner. It's "just a stupid Jeep" at the end of the day.

Kids are in the imminent future (at least that's what I thought until we just got back from a two year old's birthday party about an hour ago), so there WILL be another purchase on the horizon post-house-building in two years. At least at this given time, we have decided on either a newer 3 series wagon (F31?) or a newer Jeep Grand Cherokee for her to drive and keep the kid(s) safe.

Where does that leave us...An E90 M3 in the garage, an R56 S for my commute, an F31/WK2 for her, an XJ that will just sit since that is a forever vehicle for me, and a hopeful 993 C2S or some variant.

I plan too much.

[spazzyfry123]

Well I think future plans may be expedited. She was driving the Jeep into work today and it died on her. Thankfully this happened only a couple miles from the house and not on the interstate, but it has me concerned with her driving it each day. I don't mind driving the Jeep and know the quirks of owning an XJ Cherokee, so I think we'll be going option B and getting her the nice, newer, and reliable car and I'll fix up the little odds and ends on the Jeep to drive each day. Bit of a shock for me realizing that it could have happened to her at 70 mph and lose power brakes/steering and not know what to do. I think it's the alternator, but I know it needs brakes, tires, bushings, etc. pretty soon. It's an old Jeep with nearly 160k miles on it at the end of the day!

Regardless, I'll fix up the Jeep and continue to drive it, but I think we're pretty set on getting an F31 wagon. Would love to find a 328dxi with M Sport. Anyone object or have a better alternative? Getting ready to start digging in deep on the F3x forums to compare 328i vs 328d wagons, but 45 mpg sure is appealing... We like the newer Grand Cherokees which are at the same price point if "similarly" equipped, but I think the F31 is the perfect all-arounder for mid to high $20k.

[Montaver]

Given you have the jeep for hauling, the m3 for classy practicality, why not get her a proper sports car? An f31 is nice but seems a bit redundant in this lineup.

You could pick her up a nice 987.2 Boxster. 981 boxsters are very cheap at the moment too comparatively. You could also look at a lightly used Miata.

[Sephiroth]

I don't get it. Just drive the E90! Its not a delicate flower of special rarity, and if you can afford to buy an M car you can surely afford the gas. Just drive and enjoy all the moments you can get in life!

[Golddots]

I might get blasted for this......

Lexus ct200h?
I drove an f sport ct and it was kind of fun to beat around in. Good mpg, nice interior, handles well enough to scare people in the corners and I can put my dog in the trunk if he is lying down.

You will appreciate the m3 more with a more sedate daily driver.

[GerrS65]

+1 for the Fiesta st. Friend has one, and I've found myself thinking about buying one if I never end up needing a commuter again. Blast to drive.
You guys have me feeling super grateful for my work truck! Good luck with the search.